EPTOn April 30 2014 06:27 chalice wrote:
with xin you're supposed to stack your flare on champions.
with xin you're supposed to stack your flare on champions.
? You have to transform it to FF first before that can happen.
[Champion] Xin Zhao - Page 24
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
? You have to transform it to FF first before that can happen. | ||
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Ethelis
United States2400 Posts
I currently use my generic jungle runes MS/Aspd/Armor/Scaling MR. Seems to me 21/9/0 is the way to go. I go Lizard/Bruta(ghostblade when it seems right)/Tanky I guess im mostly asking for a rune setup and any Xin specific stuff, | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On July 15 2014 14:18 Ethelis wrote: I just picked up Xin and omfg he's stupidly fun. Well i'm pretty meh jungler (Plat 1/it's my worst role), but i think i found the jungler for me. I think im pretty good early game and i don't think i've ever played a stronger early game jungler before. I really wanna stick with him and learn more. I currently use my generic jungle runes MS/Aspd/Armor/Scaling MR. Seems to me 21/9/0 is the way to go. I go Lizard/Bruta(ghostblade when it seems right)/Tanky I guess im mostly asking for a rune setup and any Xin specific stuff, AS quints, AD red, armor yellows, MR/Scaling blues all fine, never even bothered to buy MS runes ever so no comment on those. Xin is an all-in jungler, and known as "mini-pantheon" Very good at early map control, can carry with right itemization, terrible when behind, but not as bad as some since he can farm the jungler no sweat. Lizard + bruta is amazing mid game, but probably even better if have lots of points into Q already - more burst, less sustained damage. Feral Flare does it job, and scales hard if you're thinking of carrying. Its decent when dueling opponent jungler if hes also AD TF is better than Botrk in terms of carrying potential, but high stacked FF + botrk is annoying as fark. Obviously Randuin banshee and w/e tank item you can dump on - turn him into Jax. Max Q vs Max E - Max E is lane gank heavy, max Q is better for dueling. Both reduce cooldowns but having Q faster can also mean your other skills are up faster, but other than that its really just personal pref. I like getting a couple points into Q pre 6 since I normally run into Lee Sin - yeah you want to out duel that blind dude otherwise your jungle wont be safe. | ||
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DrunkenOne
United States302 Posts
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
Does Xin need the mana sustain from the SS? Is it ever worth it to just sit on Madreds and go for early combat stats from brutalizer? (Upgrade it later since it still counts for FF stacks). I was thinking in terms of if Xin doesn't need the mana sustain from SS then he could get Madreds early but then go for a fast bruta so he can keep up the gank pressure. Instead of rushing FF I'm thinking about waiting until mid-game to upgrade it since you won't be power farming much but you'll still have it for mid-game dragon/baron. Something like Madreds>Boots>Bruta>FF instead of straight FF rush. | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
On July 16 2014 00:22 DrunkenOne wrote: Always max e you don't think there's any merit to getting a second point in Q before maxing E? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23442 Posts
-1 s CD, at most +45 damage. Each point in E: -1 s CD, +35 damage, 5% slow. Considering lower CD on E is much more important (second E to re gap close) and you're more likely to get 2 E's than 2 Q's (70 dmg vs 45, you often need the second E to land the 3rd hit of Q anyway, and the Cd only starts after the 3rd hit) E is always superior. Xin should usually be played aiming for max CDR, so you can E-Q every 3 seconds (+perma W 40-80% attack speed) giving you a lot of flexibility. Trinity is good though. I rune 10% CDR. I usually go lizard/brualizer or lizard/CDR boots for 35%/40% CDR and then go hexdrinker for mr and then randuins or warmogs. For more damage you finish ghostblade, get trinity, or go LW. For tank you want randuins/warmogs maybe atmas or something. As top lane you can get spirit visage and frozen heart for options for items to replace the loss of lizard CDR and for laning phase. BoTRK is pretty meh, you can't All-in that well in teamfights realistically, you can do a lot more by like, E Q knock up a tank, run back, run in on a squishy, he flashes out you escape to E back on some tank or E to chase him and get further away from their team the lifesteal is useless on it anyway Trinity at least provides burst damage and consistent movement speed, both are really strong. | ||
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Ethelis
United States2400 Posts
On July 16 2014 02:08 Slayer91 wrote: Each point in Q: -1 s CD, at most +45 damage. Each point in E: -1 s CD, +35 damage, 5% slow. Considering lower CD on E is much more important (second E to re gap close) and you're more likely to get 2 E's than 2 Q's (70 dmg vs 45, you often need the second E to land the 3rd hit of Q anyway, and the Cd only starts after the 3rd hit) E is always superior. Xin should usually be played aiming for max CDR, so you can E-Q every 3 seconds (+perma W 40-80% attack speed) giving you a lot of flexibility. Trinity is good though. I rune 10% CDR. I usually go lizard/brualizer or lizard/CDR boots for 35%/40% CDR and then go hexdrinker for mr and then randuins or warmogs. For more damage you finish ghostblade, get trinity, or go LW. For tank you want randuins/warmogs maybe atmas or something. As top lane you can get spirit visage and frozen heart for options for items to replace the loss of lizard CDR and for laning phase. BoTRK is pretty meh, you can't All-in that well in teamfights realistically, you can do a lot more by like, E Q knock up a tank, run back, run in on a squishy, he flashes out you escape to E back on some tank or E to chase him and get further away from their team the lifesteal is useless on it anyway Trinity at least provides burst damage and consistent movement speed, both are really strong. That's interesting. In what situation would you get CDR boots? In my few games i've gone bruta first because i've happened to recall with just enough gold to buy it outright (would get lizard otherwise). Would i get CDR boots if i can't get a quick bruta after lizard? I wanna get this out of the way as well, when you go in to fight do you EWQ or WEQ? I've been doing EWQ and it feels weird. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23442 Posts
I go EWQ or EQW going W before E isn't great because at best you lose some time on it and at worst you waste it and don't quite get the range for E. Normally you use W before Q for the cd reduce but if you are trying to make sure you get the Q off instantly I guess its okay to use it just after. | ||
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Ethelis
United States2400 Posts
I've never tried runeing for CDR, with Xin im guessing you'd be real terror with the CDR and 2nd blue. Would that be "optimal" in general? Would you run that even vs an Elise? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23442 Posts
If they have a lot of AP you can go lizard-->hexdrinker+mercs-->spirit visage or something. | ||
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Ethelis
United States2400 Posts
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On July 16 2014 02:59 Ethelis wrote: Hmm, okay. I'll play around with him more and try different stuff like Trinity. I've never tried runeing for CDR, with Xin im guessing you'd be real terror with the CDR and 2nd blue. Would that be "optimal" in general? Would you run that even vs an Elise? Unless Elise is behind/skills down/low hp Im not sure you want to fight her - its either a waste of time or potentially suicidal. Her itemization ranges from insta-gib combo to "so fucking tanky just ignore fuck that frozen heart oh god stop shooting cumshots at me" Cdr runes 5%, mastery 5%, 14% AS from quints..well why the fuck not just try it  Ive tried messing around with Iceborn gaunt on him too - its pretty fucking annoyingTime to try out max CDR xin I guess. Both flare and lizard are nice, sitll havent really chose either. Flare does allow you to solo that dragon faster tho A_A | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23442 Posts
AS is pretty meh later you get so much for free and I don't think its that much better in jungle I get 10% from rune 5% from mastery so its 25% with lizard, 35% with blue//brutalizer and 40% with cdr boots its obviously really bad if you're behind, because you won't survive enough to make ti worth anything, but xin kinda sucks from behind anyway | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
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Bam Lee
2336 Posts
On July 16 2014 02:08 Slayer91 wrote: Each point in Q: -1 s CD, at most +45 damage. Each point in E: -1 s CD, +35 damage, 5% slow. Considering lower CD on E is much more important (second E to re gap close) and you're more likely to get 2 E's than 2 Q's (70 dmg vs 45, you often need the second E to land the 3rd hit of Q anyway, and the Cd only starts after the 3rd hit) E is always superior. Xin should usually be played aiming for max CDR, so you can E-Q every 3 seconds (+perma W 40-80% attack speed) giving you a lot of flexibility. Trinity is good though. I rune 10% CDR. I usually go lizard/brualizer or lizard/CDR boots for 35%/40% CDR and then go hexdrinker for mr and then randuins or warmogs. For more damage you finish ghostblade, get trinity, or go LW. For tank you want randuins/warmogs maybe atmas or something. As top lane you can get spirit visage and frozen heart for options for items to replace the loss of lizard CDR and for laning phase. BoTRK is pretty meh, you can't All-in that well in teamfights realistically, you can do a lot more by like, E Q knock up a tank, run back, run in on a squishy, he flashes out you escape to E back on some tank or E to chase him and get further away from their team the lifesteal is useless on it anyway Trinity at least provides burst damage and consistent movement speed, both are really strong. Dayum exactly what i do. Tried feral flare and botrk out but CDR is simply better than an aspd oriented xin. Never understood why people wanted to play xin like a poor mans yi with feral flare/botrk. He just gets kited and he is way to squishy for that without items. Yi atleast gains survivability through his high damage and Q I always felt like madreds leaves you a bit mana starved if you want to jungle fast and in between ganks. | ||
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ArchAngelSC
England706 Posts
On July 16 2014 20:28 Bam Lee wrote: Dayum exactly what i do. Tried feral flare and botrk out but CDR is simply better than an aspd oriented xin. Never understood why people wanted to play xin like a poor mans yi with feral flare/botrk. He just gets kited and he is way to squishy for that without items. Yi atleast gains survivability through his high damage and Q I always felt like madreds leaves you a bit mana starved if you want to jungle fast and in between ganks. 1-2 mana pots each time you back and don't use E to farm. Should solve any mana problems you're having. | ||
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23442 Posts
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
Sure, its crazy strong mid-late game, but pre 20th minute mark (usually when it finishes) its fucking weak as hell. You lose duels vs opponent junglers who go lizard elder and the damage just feels super lack luster, which in turn, makes you feel like you arent really controlling the map as a Xin Zhao should be doing early game. I recognize the sudden boost in damage once it switches to FF right at the 20th minute mark, and it serves as its own mini Sword of the Occult and becomes a crazy snowball item, but Lizard-Brut-TF Xin is scary enough, and Lizard just gives so much more early game. | ||
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