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I have mained Xin for two seasons and I am excited to see that some other people actually play him! I want to plead with you, however, to not ever build feral flare on Xin. I sigh in relief whenever I see an opposing Xin build Wriggle's because I know he will be meaningless for a long time. Even at FF's peak of being super imba, Xin wasn't the man for the job. He farms the jungle too slow to get fast stacks and it gimps his incredible dueling power. You were just better off building flare on faster clearing junglers like Nocturne and Master Yi. I also think you need the mana sustain and the cdr from sotel.
I'm curious how people feel about tank Xin. To me, it usually feels awful. I've tried all sorts of builds on him, but nothing compares to a Trinity Force rush. I go back and forth about Brutalizer before Trinity Force. But I often find myself needing to go tank because top is a squishy or the other team has too much burst and cc for me to do anything in fights. I find myself usually losing these games. Lacking the ability to delete carries turns me into a decent peel machine but it doesn't do enough. Maybe it has something to do with stronger ADCs and weaker Randuin's...but it just feels like tank Xin is a bad move overall. Like I should communicate in champ select and make sure top will be tanky enough, avoid 5v5s until i can finish enough items, but always go tri force for the kill potential. I'm curious if anyone else has been going tank and how it is working out, and any useful observations.
On the whole I don't know why Xin doesn't see more play. He fights all these strong early game junglers quite well, he can delete squishy carries very quickly, and with max cdr he has excellent cc for peeling or catches. And I realy appreciate the sustain from W while in the jungle. Staying healthy is a big deal against these aggro junglers these days.
To the arena! :D
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Sooo is anyone else getting this bug where you "challenge" a target, then use your ult and it still knocks them back? It's happening every time for me right now.
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On July 23 2014 11:10 Senorcuidado wrote:
I have mained Xin for two seasons and I am excited to see that some other people actually play him! I want to plead with you, however, to not ever build feral flare on Xin. I sigh in relief whenever I see an opposing Xin build Wriggle's because I know he will be meaningless for a long time. Even at FF's peak of being super imba, Xin wasn't the man for the job. He farms the jungle too slow to get fast stacks and it gimps his incredible dueling power. You were just better off building flare on faster clearing junglers like Nocturne and Master Yi. I also think you need the mana sustain and the cdr from sotel.
I'm curious how people feel about tank Xin. To me, it usually feels awful. I've tried all sorts of builds on him, but nothing compares to a Trinity Force rush. I go back and forth about Brutalizer before Trinity Force. But I often find myself needing to go tank because top is a squishy or the other team has too much burst and cc for me to do anything in fights. I find myself usually losing these games. Lacking the ability to delete carries turns me into a decent peel machine but it doesn't do enough. Maybe it has something to do with stronger ADCs and weaker Randuin's...but it just feels like tank Xin is a bad move overall. Like I should communicate in champ select and make sure top will be tanky enough, avoid 5v5s until i can finish enough items, but always go tri force for the kill potential. I'm curious if anyone else has been going tank and how it is working out, and any useful observations.
On the whole I don't know why Xin doesn't see more play. He fights all these strong early game junglers quite well, he can delete squishy carries very quickly, and with max cdr he has excellent cc for peeling or catches. And I realy appreciate the sustain from W while in the jungle. Staying healthy is a big deal against these aggro junglers these days.
To the arena! :D
actually, I recently played xin AND his jungle clear is actually very good once he gets madred's. He's much faster than the likes of amumu, warwick, udyr and his clearing is not much slower than yi at all. The only thing that makes me hesitate on buying it on him is that Xin feels much more like a ganking champ that only clears a creep camp on the way to another lane or while he waits for the wave push on the lane. But getting an assist or a kill now gives FF stacks. once he gets the FF he gets a significant damage boost, but IMO he still needs to be in lane more than in jungle, and if he can do that and still get FF by around 15min, FF is still a good item on him IMO
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faster than ww sure
faster than amumu i doubt it
faster than udyr sounds like bullshit
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Lol, last time I tested thoroughly (before machete nerfs) Udyr was the fastest jungler in the game, faster than pre-nerf Evelynn. Don't think the machete nerfs changed it either. Xin is silly slow in the jungle regardless of what he builds compared to all good junglers.
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Xin's clear is alright once you finish Elder Lizard...then again anyone's is by then. His clear speed that matters (first 2-4) are god awful slow.
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On August 06 2014 21:10 saltywet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 11:10 Senorcuidado wrote:
I have mained Xin for two seasons and I am excited to see that some other people actually play him! I want to plead with you, however, to not ever build feral flare on Xin. I sigh in relief whenever I see an opposing Xin build Wriggle's because I know he will be meaningless for a long time. Even at FF's peak of being super imba, Xin wasn't the man for the job. He farms the jungle too slow to get fast stacks and it gimps his incredible dueling power. You were just better off building flare on faster clearing junglers like Nocturne and Master Yi. I also think you need the mana sustain and the cdr from sotel.
I'm curious how people feel about tank Xin. To me, it usually feels awful. I've tried all sorts of builds on him, but nothing compares to a Trinity Force rush. I go back and forth about Brutalizer before Trinity Force. But I often find myself needing to go tank because top is a squishy or the other team has too much burst and cc for me to do anything in fights. I find myself usually losing these games. Lacking the ability to delete carries turns me into a decent peel machine but it doesn't do enough. Maybe it has something to do with stronger ADCs and weaker Randuin's...but it just feels like tank Xin is a bad move overall. Like I should communicate in champ select and make sure top will be tanky enough, avoid 5v5s until i can finish enough items, but always go tri force for the kill potential. I'm curious if anyone else has been going tank and how it is working out, and any useful observations.
On the whole I don't know why Xin doesn't see more play. He fights all these strong early game junglers quite well, he can delete squishy carries very quickly, and with max cdr he has excellent cc for peeling or catches. And I realy appreciate the sustain from W while in the jungle. Staying healthy is a big deal against these aggro junglers these days.
To the arena! :D actually, I recently played xin AND his jungle clear is actually very good once he gets madred's. He's much faster than the likes of amumu, warwick, udyr and his clearing is not much slower than yi at all. The only thing that makes me hesitate on buying it on him is that Xin feels much more like a ganking champ that only clears a creep camp on the way to another lane or while he waits for the wave push on the lane. But getting an assist or a kill now gives FF stacks. once he gets the FF he gets a significant damage boost, but IMO he still needs to be in lane more than in jungle, and if he can do that and still get FF by around 15min, FF is still a good item on him IMO
You must have played udyr wrong. There is no way he could beat udyr clear speed. I highly doubt he can even compete with amumu but it could be possible. You can't compare him to the likes of yi and udyr at all
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So not gonna lie, I like Feral Flare a lot better on Xin than Lizard. You actually hit a lot harder in ganks during the Wriggles build up than the Spirit Lizard, farm faster, and sustain better. I dunno, its not like Xin is a weak early game character anyway. You can afford to hit that power spike a touch later, especially since the likes of Lee and Elise have been nerfed.
Maybe its because I am just a greedy juingler in general, but I find I play a lot better on Xin with Feral Flare. My winrate on Xin in high plat is 62.2% in a solid 250 games, but over about 35 games of buying Lizard my winrate is a staggeringly low 45%, especially in comparison to the overall winrate on Xin. Its just such a huuge difference.
Maybe I just feel the need to make plays more when I build Lizard, and proceed to do stupid shit. I dunno. Maybe it is just a sample size thing. I just feel useless late game with Lizard
/shrug.
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On August 18 2014 03:48 iCanada wrote:
So not gonna lie, I like Feral Flare a lot better on Xin than Lizard. You actually hit a lot harder in ganks during the Wriggles build up than the Spirit Lizard, farm faster, and sustain better. I dunno, its not like Xin is a weak early game character anyway. You can afford to hit that power spike a touch later, especially since the likes of Lee and Elise have been nerfed.
Maybe its because I am just a greedy juingler in general, but I find I play a lot better on Xin with Feral Flare. My winrate on Xin in high plat is 62.2% in a solid 250 games, but over about 35 games of buying Lizard my winrate is a staggeringly low 45%, especially in comparison to the overall winrate on Xin. Its just such a huuge difference.
Maybe I just feel the need to make plays more when I build Lizard, and proceed to do stupid shit. I dunno. Maybe it is just a sample size thing. I just feel useless late game with Lizard
/shrug.
That is certainly a lot of games and a solid win rate to back it up. I think i hover around 59% the way I build, which is sotel > trinity (sometimes bruta in there) > tank. But I hate my late game irrelevance in team fights.
How do you build after feral flare? Straight tank, or trinity, or bork, or ghostblade, etc.? You could make arguments for any of those paths. I would be interested in giving it a shot.
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I usually go Feral,Trinity,Mercs,Randuins,Visage and BotrK/Ghostblade or GA
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On August 18 2014 09:57 Senorcuidado wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2014 03:48 iCanada wrote:
So not gonna lie, I like Feral Flare a lot better on Xin than Lizard. You actually hit a lot harder in ganks during the Wriggles build up than the Spirit Lizard, farm faster, and sustain better. I dunno, its not like Xin is a weak early game character anyway. You can afford to hit that power spike a touch later, especially since the likes of Lee and Elise have been nerfed.
Maybe its because I am just a greedy juingler in general, but I find I play a lot better on Xin with Feral Flare. My winrate on Xin in high plat is 62.2% in a solid 250 games, but over about 35 games of buying Lizard my winrate is a staggeringly low 45%, especially in comparison to the overall winrate on Xin. Its just such a huuge difference.
Maybe I just feel the need to make plays more when I build Lizard, and proceed to do stupid shit. I dunno. Maybe it is just a sample size thing. I just feel useless late game with Lizard
/shrug. That is certainly a lot of games and a solid win rate to back it up. I think i hover around 59% the way I build, which is sotel > trinity (sometimes bruta in there) > tank. But I hate my late game irrelevance in team fights. How do you build after feral flare? Straight tank, or trinity, or bork, or ghostblade, etc.? You could make arguments for any of those paths. I would be interested in giving it a shot.
Usually straight tank afterwards, unless I absolutely huge, in which case I get a trinity force. It should be noted I typically buy a dblade before I complete Wriggles Lantern.
I find other team gets really excited when I buy madreds, play ballsier because they think I'm not going to gank.
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no they literally dont pay attention and they dont expect ganks because they're bad
also madreds doens't mean you wont gank it just means you jungle faster but have less stats until feral flare is finished
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Played a couple of support Xin. It's actually one of the most powerful kill-lanes, and he doesn't become useless late game.
Final Build:
Merc Treads, Ruby Sightstone, Sunfire Cape, Static Shiv, Mountain Item, Optional Offensive 6th Item
Max E first, then Q, then W.
Runes: Health / Armor Quints, Ignite and Flash / or Ghost
Playstyle: Pick Xin only if your ADC is strong enough early game. I would not pair him up with Trist, Ezrael. He does great with Draven, Cait.
Basically, your burst and CC is strong enough, if paired with strong early game ADC, to wreck your opponent's lane.
If, unlikely, you do end up losing lane, then keep Xin tanky and use him as a warder. His E-dash is really a strong attention-grabber for enemy team so you will be focused hard if you initiate. Only initiate if their member is slightly off-position. Remember his R gives you bonus MR / Armor.
Xin scales hard with attack speed, but with this build, you will hardly be doing much damage. I think a 6th item like bloodthirster would complement him well with Static Shiv, and he will do enough damage for teamfights.
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Well shit, guess I better get to updating this. Testing time!
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United States4053 Posts
On January 06 2015 13:03 parkufarku wrote:
Played a couple of support Xin. It's actually one of the most powerful kill-lanes, and he doesn't become useless late game.
Final Build:
Merc Treads, Ruby Sightstone, Sunfire Cape, Static Shiv, Mountain Item, Optional Offensive 6th Item
Max E first, then Q, then W.
Runes: Health / Armor Quints, Ignite and Flash / or Ghost
Playstyle: Pick Xin only if your ADC is strong enough early game. I would not pair him up with Trist, Ezrael. He does great with Draven, Cait.
Basically, your burst and CC is strong enough, if paired with strong early game ADC, to wreck your opponent's lane.
If, unlikely, you do end up losing lane, then keep Xin tanky and use him as a warder. His E-dash is really a strong attention-grabber for enemy team so you will be focused hard if you initiate. Only initiate if their member is slightly off-position. Remember his R gives you bonus MR / Armor.
Xin scales hard with attack speed, but with this build, you will hardly be doing much damage. I think a 6th item like bloodthirster would complement him well with Static Shiv, and he will do enough damage for teamfights.
I've done this with Kalista as my ADC. Their respective skills have near perfect synergy for dishing out a surprising amount of damage starting at level 2 and continuing the entire game; in fact, of the supports I've tried with Kalista, Xin Zhao is far and away the best. I opted for a fast brutalizer, eventually into Black Cleaver, instead of Shiv, though I admit I haven't tried the latter. Other than that, similar builds. Randuin's and Righteous Glory are great options as well over Sunfire.
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Is there a bug with Xin's W, where if you have Q active but W is on CD, then while Q is still active W comes up, you press W but the W doesn't activate? I've had this happen like 5 times and it's really annoying. I usually just press W again. I don't know any way around this other than to spam W.
The sound pops, just not the skill itself.
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Which build is preferable on jungle Xin:
Warrior Enchantment + Brutalizer > Tank
Devouer Enchantment + Botrk > Tank
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Which one's stronger? Probably 2nd one if you can actually get autos off. But the second one also costs a fuckton more than the first and takes some time to ramp up. But you do get 20% CDR with the first build that's also really beneficial for having your E cooldown really low.
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EPT
