EPT[Champion] Gragas - Page 2
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On February 03 2012 02:45 InvaderUK wrote: I was assuming they'd be able to dodge the barrels, against decent players they'd probly get hit by 1 or 2 max. I suppose it'd work if they were retarded and couldn't dodge though (players like me.) If they are autoing you when you last hit, then you start juking them by barreling them when you're just about to go for a last hit (but you don't last hit, you barrel them while they are locked down in auto hit animation). Being "retarded" and not being able to dodge might just be not paying attention to your movement patterns, i.e an expierenced gragas might see you stopping to harass when he goes to last hit a ranged creep and he throws barrels at you and since you were distracted you're like "how the hell did that barrel just hit me???". I don't play that much gragas though, I'm only speculating, I didn't think I'd have to explain this in 3 posts when I shouldn't really be posting in the gragas thread LOL. | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
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Garraf
Austria34 Posts
Your best bet in these cases is to try to use your barrels to last hit a caster minion or two while at the same time hitting your opponent. Your W helps mitigate harass damage, as well as allowing you to spam more spells. Your can surprise last hit with your E (instead of waddling forward which really telegraphs your intentions) and then step back. Your E is your most spammable and cheapest mana-costing ability in early game, so it can be useful to regen hp with your passive. Later on you can clear entire waves with Q (or Q+E), then farm wraiths or go for a gank. This might be relevant: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SnM9i.jpg) Gragas is one of the best AP farmers / minion wave clearers. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On February 07 2012 05:13 Garraf wrote: Against certain matchups, you do have to be a bit careful of autoattack harass in the first few levels. Your best bet in these cases is to try to use your barrels to last hit a caster minion or two while at the same time hitting your opponent. Your W helps mitigate harass damage, as well as allowing you to spam more spells. Your can surprise last hit with your E (instead of waddling forward which really telegraphs your intentions) and then step back. Your E is your most spammable and cheapest mana-costing ability in early game, so it can be useful to regen hp with your passive. Later on you can clear entire waves with Q (or Q+E), then farm wraiths or go for a gank. Gragas is one of the best AP farmers / minion wave clearers. I've found that most players will not sit on their caster minion backlines (ie, stand to the side, generally with a ward to prevent the position from being liable to getting ganked) while harrassing or farming vs gragas so as to create a situation in which he has to use multiple barrels if he wants to harrass + clear, which costs enough time so as to prevent him from farming wraiths. If gragas uses bodyslam to mitigate the pushing, he sets himself up to get ganked, but if he's got his ult up he can shrug off most attempts on his life. Gragas can tie most lanes pretty easily, but his main strength is being able to crush his lane opponents by ulting them into jungle ganks reliably, and abusing positioning + doing massive burst during team fights. He's pretty weak against heros like vlad in lane who have a near zero cast point nuke to farm and a way to avoid his ult. I've seen grag completely dominate brand/viktor/morg in lane, though. I'd be interested in seeing how fizz and bomberman do against him. | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
Of course, most of this depends on if the Vlad can dodge or not. From what I've seen at 1400, they can't | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On February 07 2012 05:43 57 Corvette wrote: On the topic of Gragas vs Vlad, I have actually had decent success if you go agressive early, before Vlad can heal back all the damage. My CS does usually end up suffering a bit compared to when I just farm, but if you can get Vlad out of lane once or twice early, you can take that lead and run with it when he hits 7/9. Of course, most of this depends on if the Vlad can dodge or not. From what I've seen at 1400, they can't Boots 3pots+ ms runes and 9/21/0 pretty much ensures vlad will not get hit by enough barrels to make a difference. 21/9/0 might be more tilted in your favor. You can try to push against him, but vlad farms surprisingly well at tower starting from level 3. Vlad hits 1278 (without the scaling gold component, i don't want to calculate that) gold with perfect farm 8 waves into the game. That's the 6:40 wave in mid. For a level comparison, that means he needs to be gone by level 5.7 or so otherwise he's returning with a revolver and a handful of pots. At that point he heals for 100 per Q, which means if you miss a barrel per wave, he's up 300 hp. Gragas can stalemate mid and go off to gank better than vlad can because vlad needs 2 tides to clear a wave, whereas grag can single barrel then body slam as he leaves to speed up his transit. I'd focus on farming into roaming/comboing ult off of a jungler's stun/snare rather than losing cs early by throwing barrels at an off-wave vlad. | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
I don't have much (if any) experience playing Gragas against the following champions: Nidalee Talon Teemo Viktor Xerath Ziggs Zilean Anyone who has insight on these matches, please post a reply. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
Pre 6, whenever he silences you, you simply wait till it runs out and then EQ him. Due to your W, he deals significantly less damage to you then he'd deal to other APs, and you generally come out ahead in trades since your E hits him for the full damage. Post 6, it's pretty much the same. If he ults you, run towards his tower. If you react in time, he will still be in range for your R after the invisibility wears off. From there on, it's a simple game of EQ till he dies. He's also not realistically going to waveclear with his W because if you play it smart, he'll always be in range for your barrels if he attempts to do so. Smartcast really helps in that matchup, because it's so incredibly important to hit all your shit asap. | ||
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RosaParksStoleMySeat
Japan926 Posts
 Assuming equal skill, he will outharass you for the entire early game. You can harass back a little bit, but he can throw bombs and autoattack you, and with his passive it will hurt a lot. Since you're melee he can deny creep last hits until you can barrel one-shot caster minions, which for a properly runed and 3x Doran's Gragas doesn't come until level 9. Honestly, you'd be much better off going top against a bruiser in this case. If you absolutely have to lane against Ziggs, watch out for his passive and use barrels to harass him whenever he goes in for a last hit. When you miss, just let your barrel marinate and melee last hit creeps as much as possible so he is slightly limited in his denying. Max W before E for the additional tankiness and mana, as you should be doing on all matches against heavy harassers as Gragas. | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
On March 22 2012 17:12 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: Gragas vs. Ziggs: ask for a switch! Assuming equal skill, he will outharass you for the entire early game. You can harass back a little bit, but he can throw bombs and autoattack you, and with his passive it will hurt a lot. Since you're melee he can deny creep last hits until you can barrel one-shot caster minions, which for a properly runed and 3x Doran's Gragas doesn't come until level 9. Honestly, you'd be much better off going top against a bruiser in this case. If you absolutely have to lane against Ziggs, watch out for his passive and use barrels to harass him whenever he goes in for a last hit. When you miss, just let your barrel marinate and melee last hit creeps as much as possible so he is slightly limited in his denying. Max W before E for the additional tankiness and mana, as you should be doing on all matches against heavy harassers as Gragas. Imo Gragas vs Ziggs is basically a mirror match, except he has the ranged advantage. Both characters have quite a few similarities, but since Ziggs has the range advantage he should win. | ||
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HurrDurrrrPWNs
United Kingdom18 Posts
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Strykemard
168 Posts
On March 22 2012 17:12 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: Gragas vs. Ziggs: ask for a switch! Assuming equal skill, he will outharass you for the entire early game. You can harass back a little bit, but he can throw bombs and autoattack you, and with his passive it will hurt a lot. Since you're melee he can deny creep last hits until you can barrel one-shot caster minions, which for a properly runed and 3x Doran's Gragas doesn't come until level 9. Honestly, you'd be much better off going top against a bruiser in this case. If you absolutely have to lane against Ziggs, watch out for his passive and use barrels to harass him whenever he goes in for a last hit. When you miss, just let your barrel marinate and melee last hit creeps as much as possible so he is slightly limited in his denying. Max W before E for the additional tankiness and mana, as you should be doing on all matches against heavy harassers as Gragas. Though i havent played this matchup it doenst sound right to me. Gragas should be able to dodge Ziggs Q and be able to hit him with his barrel. This is because Ziggs bombs detonate on hitting a creep and if Gragas positions well he should be far enough out of range to avoid Ziggs hitting him directly, and creeps take the detonation so that it wont bounce to him. | ||
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NoobieOne
United States1183 Posts
Max Q -> W ->E While your W is active you can outtrade talon on the early levels of the game. I've only played this matchup twice but both times I was able to force him back pre 6 (once with a gank I got a kill due to body slam's slow after talon used his jump) While your W is not active you need to play a little more defensively and wait for opportunities Post 6 the matchup depends on how much survivability you have. If you can survive talon's burst of a combo you should be able to ult him back into tower range followed by E Q ignite and that should be a definite kill because remember talon has to jump into you to combo. Your passive and your W gives you enough sustain to out poke talon and you can force him to engage in which case you should be able to survive. Edit: I also run 21/9/0 as Gragas so that might help my survivability a little bit in this matchup. | ||
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Strykemard
168 Posts
On February 03 2012 02:45 InvaderUK wrote: I was assuming they'd be able to dodge the barrels, against decent players they'd probly get hit by 1 or 2 max. I suppose it'd work if they were retarded and couldn't dodge though (players like me.) Thats not really true. That would mean champs with skill shots never ever get played in high elo. That inclues nidalee( seen a lot ), ez ( seen enough ), and a lot more that done exactly come to mind. If you are at an elo where you play with them, it just comes down to your strengths and weaknesses. Landing skillshots is a strength of mine so I most often play heroes like lux or gragas or ez. Getting hit by a skill shot doesnt mean you are retarded. It just means you got outplayed. | ||
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Haasts
New Zealand4445 Posts
Also, since I can't easily find the information I'm looking for - with regards to Drunken Rage, is the mana gain affected by Chalice of Harmony? IIRC it applies to things like Insanity Potion/blue buff but not Swain's passive or Karthus' Defile, so probably not. Also, I could have sworn there were some slated Body Slam changes and tweaks to his base stats on the PBE circa the Jayce patch, but I'm not sure if they translated to live: Gragas Health Increased to 523, from 493. Bodyslam Mana Cost Decreased to 50 at all levels, from 50/55/60/65/70. | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
Right now he is OP, and judging from what I've seen in ranked play, a Gragas FotM may be coming soon. Also, I played a gragas game against a 2k elo player, even though it was his first time playing AP ezreal, I performed well. (The game starts at 5:00) http://twitch.tv/theonlycholo/b/327819115 | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On August 09 2012 07:52 Haasts wrote: Bumping this as there's been a lil' bit of fat man discussion in GD and I've noticed a few more Gragii popping up on featured games / streams, and I think Soniv is playing a bit of him. With the current state of midlane heading towards instaclears and roaming, two traits Gragas excels at, how's he doing? Also, since I can't easily find the information I'm looking for - with regards to Drunken Rage, is the mana gain affected by Chalice of Harmony? IIRC it applies to things like Insanity Potion/blue buff but not Swain's passive or Karthus' Defile, so probably not. Also, I could have sworn there were some slated Body Slam changes and tweaks to his base stats on the PBE circa the Jayce patch, but I'm not sure if they translated to live: I don't think chalice affects his W. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
He essentially stalemates losing matchups and then applies pressure all over the map and farms while doing so | ||
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HAL9OOO
United States176 Posts
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