[Champion] Gragas

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57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

July 09 2011 03:50 GMT

LAST UPDATED January 15th
Season 4 edits incoming

Gragas, The ~~Cask Master~~ Rabble Rouser
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(His name was change so "Cask master" wouldn't be confused with "Card Master")

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Music to listen to while playing Gragas:

Hes fat, hes drunk, hes awesome.
He can be built AP, AD or Hybrid depending on your tastes, and can fill many roles ingame. It is mostly agreeable however, that he is best built as an AP carry. His AP ratios on his Barrel roll and his Ultimate are incredibly good, and he is naturally tanky enough so you don't need to specifically build tanky ap items on him (although if you do it makes him much harder to kill).

Skills

Passive. Happy Hour! - Gragas takes a drink from his cask every time he uses an ability, restoring 2% of his maximum health over 4 seconds.

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Spam your skills and you get more sustain? Yespls. This passive lets him stay in lane a lot longer than most other champions. The heal isn't very noticeable until you start to spam your skills a lot, but over time you will notice the regen.

Q. Barrel Roll - Gragas rolls his cask to a location, which can be activated again to explode or will explode on its own after 5 seconds. Enemies struck by the blast have their attack speed slowed for 3 seconds.
Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 mana
Cooldown: 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 seconds
Magic Damage: 85 / 135 / 185 / 235 / 285 (+0.9 per ability power)
Slow: 20% / 25% / 30% / 35% / 40%

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Long range harrass, decent damage plus great slow, awesome AP ratio. Basic core laning skill. I max this first. You can toss this in front of fleeing opponents to hit them as they try to escape, or throw it into a fight and slow the attack speed of the opponent AD carry. It is a fairly slow rolling barrel, so try to predict where the opponent will go before you throw it. Also factor in the split second that it doesn't allow you to explode the barrel after it stops moving. Once you get two dorans rings and level 4 in this skill, you can 1-shot the opponent caster minions, and 2-hit combo with your E on the melee minions.The cast range of this spell was reduced slightly in the 3.14 patch. That same patch added a small QoL feature to this skill, if you press Q right before the barrel reaches its target, it will explode on impact.

W. Drunken Rage - Gragas guzzles down brew from his cask, channeling for 1 second. He gains mana while channeling, and becomes empowered after finishing, increasing attack damage, and reducing damage taken for 20 seconds.
No Cost
Mana Restored: 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 / 90
Bonus Attack Damage: 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70
Damage Reduction: 10 / 12 / 14 / 16 / 18 %

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Imo one of the best steorids in the game for tank or AD Gragas. For AP gragas, this is more used for the mana regen. This skill at level 3 is like a free BF sword, that also regens mana and reduces incoming damage. Awesome skill, one point at lvl 2, then Make the decision to max it second or last. The other half of Gragas's lane sustain. I used to prefer getting this maxed second, however since you are not building Tanky DPS or AD, you won't really need the bonus AD. The damage reduction is nice on level up, but not extremely noticeable. As of the Jayce patch, leveling this skill over your E is up to personal preference, considering E's speed does not increase with level any more.

E. Body Slam - Gragas charges forward, colliding with the first enemy unit he hits, dealing magic damage to enemies in the area. Units hit by Body Slam are slowed by 35% for 2.5 seconds. If Body Slam hits an enemy, the cooldown of Body Slam is halved.
Cost: 75
Cooldown: 12 seconds
Total Magic Damage: 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 (+0.5 per ability power) (+0.66 per attack damage)

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Pretty usefull skill, can go through walls. Useful for escaping chasers. One point at 3 or 4 then make the judgement to max it second or last. Can be used as a second flash to get out of scary situations. This spell can go over most walls, although the thicker ones will still block it. Can use this to charge in and use your ultimate to initiate a fight. ~~The higher rank in the spell, the faster and slightly longer it reaches, so I max it second for quick getaways in the midgame.~~ This was changed in the Jayce patch, it now travels the same speed at every level. Lategame this skill will be on a 5 second cooldown with bluebuff, so don't be afraid to use it just to get around a little faster. This was slightly nerfed in the Late august patch, bringing the mana cost from 50 to 75.

R. Explosive Cask - Gragas throws his cask to a location, which explodes on impact, dealing magic damage to enemy units in the area and knocking them back.
Cost: 100 / 125 / 150 mana
Cooldown: 100 / 90 / 80 seconds
Magic Damage: 200 / 325 / 450 (+1.0 per ability power)

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Huge knockback, good damage. Great for fucking up teamfights, scattering chasers/opponents or seperating people from their team. Trolololo spell. Does incredible damage lategame, with a pretty low cooldown. Don't be afraid to use this skill to secure a kill, the cooldown at level 3 is less than a minute with over 25% CDR. If you are chasing an opponent who has flash or a blink skill, try to wait for them to use that spell/flash before using your ultimate. Too many times have opponents escaped by blinking at the right time and having a Gragas ultimate push them further to safety. This ultimate's cooldown was nerfed in the Late august patch, going from 90/75/60 to 100/90/80.

Pre-Game Setup (Runes/Masteries/Summoner Spells)

Runes:

9x Greater Mark of Magic Penetration (+0.95)

OR
9x Greater Mark of Hybrid Penetration (+0.9)(+0.62)

9x Greater Seal of Scaling Mana regeneration (+0.065/ 5 sec. per level)

OR
9x Greater Seal of Armour (+1.41) (If up against an AD lane like talon)

9x Greater Glyph of Scaling Ability Power (+0.17 per level)

3x Greater Quintessence of Ability Power (+4.95)

Masteries:
21-X-X
9 into defense or utility is up to personal preference. I put 9 into defence, as I tend to be fairly agressive and like the slight extra defence for the inevitable counterattack.

Here is the masteries build I use on Gragas.

Summoner Spells

Flash and Ignite are the normal picks, as with most AP carries.

Other summoner Spells:

Exaust - Better suited for AD/Tanky DPS Gragas, although Exaust is a viable option against Certain opponents (Mainly AD mids) or gank-oriented junglers.

Ghost - Similar to Exaust, better on AD/Tanky Gragas. One may prefer Ghost over flash as your E ability is like a built in flash every 5-7 seconds, but My preference is still to take flash over Ghost.

Heal - I've seen people take heal mid, but the only reason I could see taking it on Gragas is if you are facing Leblanc or another heavy burster that does not disable you from using summoner spells.

Barrier - Similar to Heal, you can take it against instagib champions like Leblanc or Veigar, but you sacrifice that kill potential of ignite/exaust for defence.

Revive - No.

Smite - If you are jungling Gragas, go for it. Otherwise, No.

Cleanse - I've never really tried cleanse on Gragas, although If I was in a spot where CC was trouble, I'd just build merc treads and go flash.

Clairity - This spell should not exist outside of ARAM games.

In-Game Stuff (Items/Matchups/Strategies)

Items

Starting Items

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2x + 3x
1x + 3x
2x + 2x
1x + 2x
Trinkets: [image loading]

There are many different options for opening items. Double Faerie charm + pots opens you up for a quick chalice or Morellonomicon. Boots+3 potions openings have been heavily nerfed, but if you feel the extra movespeed is critical, go for it. If you plan on going agressive early, you can also open Amplifying tome + 2 potions for an impressive 40+ AP at level 1. As of the 3.08 patch, another possible opening is Doran's Ring + 2 potions. This is similar to the amp tome opening with a little more sustain (through the Mana on kill and health), but its a dead-end item and is usually sold by the mid-late game. As for Trinkets, Warding totem or Sweeping lense are my usual picks. Sweeping lense can be good against Khazix/Akali/teemo or other stealth champions after 9 when you can upgrade it to an oracle's lense.

Items for when You Need to Back Early

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Most of the time, you aren't going to stay in lane long enough to get 2k+ gold. I usually get a Chalice of harmony for mana regen to use more barrels to CS/harrass. You can also work towards your sorc shoes. If the opponent is packing a lot of physical damage, has a lot of CC, or is nuking you through your damage reduction, you may opt for Nina Tabi or Merc treads. Finally, if an AD opponent is bullying you, a Seeker's Armguard is a good choice for early defence.

Core Lane Items

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If the opponent is playing really passive, you are managing your mana very well and you are confident you can start snowballing early, you can go right for your blasting wand and/or Needlessly Large Rod. I still reccomend the Chalice, but you can skip it if you get the second bluebuff and get a blasting wand/NLR.

Core Game Items

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Your first major item should be Deathcap or Athene's unholy Grail, depending on if you went for a chalice in lane or not. If you did get Deathcap first, think about skipping Athene's if you also know you'll be getting blue buffs,
OROR
Usually my second item is one out of these three. I get Haunting Guise if my opponent is starting to build Magic Reistance in fear (Which they should be). If the opponent is continuing to only build their main items, but isn't strong enough to kill you straight up, you can work towards your Deathfire grasp. Otherwise, I tend to build Void staff as my 2nd main item to increase the burst damage you can do.

OR OR /
After that, build what fits the situation. Liandry's Torment if the opponents are starting to get more MR, Hourglass or other defensive AP items if you are getting focused, Bveil/GA if you need to stay alive to carry your team.

Specific Items

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I personally try to avoid Rylai's crystal sceptre when playing Gragas. While it does give him a good amount of HP and AP, You will only be able to use the 15% slow as all Gragas's damaging abilities are AOE, and in the case of his ultimate, a large portion of the slow will be used up by the knockback.

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I see a lot of players building Rod of Ages on Gragas. I said earlier that I prefer to not turn the lane into a farm fest and would rather get agressive, which the Rod of Ages isn't meant for. If your lane is going nowhere and simply turning it into a farmfest, RoA may be viable, but I do not build it.

Skill Order
Q, W, E, Q, Q, R then R > Q > E or W > E or W
Q is 90% of the time the best skill to open with. If you spot a jungle invade coming and you can level your E fast enough to escape, that should be one of (if not the only) reason not to get Q first.
Try to get your entire spell kit as soon as possible, as each skill brings great utility to the field.
In certain matchups, you may want to get E before your W (against a level 2 ganker like Leesin or against fizz). While it will leave you with no mana regen until level 3, it could save your ass.
W or E maxed second is up to preference and your lane opponent. If you are taking a lot of damage/harrass, max W second. Otherwise get your E maxed first for the extra damage.

Lane Matchups
This section is still under construction. I have tried to put most characters that may be seen mid here, although if there are any I missed please just post a reply and I will add them.

MAGIC DAMAGE BASED CHAMPIONS
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It is a tough lane for Gragas. You cannot get in range for a bodyslam combo without eating a face full of foxfire. Wait for her to use her cooldowns before trying to harrass, or just farm safely from afar with your barrels. At best you can farm from a far and maybe hit a few barrels, at worst she will constantly charm you and you will take a lot of damage. You can push her to her tower, but she is also an excellent farmer, so its kinda pointless. Make sure you call your MIAs, Ahri is extremely mobile and a good ganker. Take advantage if you hit 6 first, Ahri without her ultimate is considerably less threatening.

Replay Example:

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This lane is heavily in the favour of Gragas. While Akali doesn't use mana, she is still squishy and you can burst her down pretty quickly. All of your skills are non-targeted AoE so you can kill her even in her shroud (or knock her out of it), and if she goes for the kill on you, R+E creates enough distance to prevent her from Shadow dancing back to you. Play the lane agressive starting at 3, and never let her get in CS range without taking some damage. Consider early wards for the bushes or pink wards to avoid being ganked/see her in shroud.

Replay Example:

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Anivia's Q travels fairly slow, so it should be easy to dodge. Just avoid her Qs and farm. When she hits 6 there is 0 chance you can outpush her, so clear the wave and gank. If you ever get her into egg form, take advantage by knocking her back towards you. The Egg can be moved by your ultimate, so if possible egg her with your other skills first. If you can, stay away from the creepwave so you don't get damaged by her RE combo. If the Anivia player is good at landing that combo, you will end up taking a lot of damage, so buy a few extra health pots and consider early MR in the form of Merc treads or Athenes.

Replay Example:

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Annie is very annoying simply put. She will constantly harass you with QstunW, and her shield makes it hard to counterattack and trade. Her burst is equal to yours at level 6, she has a stun while you have a knockback. It is completely up to player skill and if Annie can consistently stun you with Q and harass with W. Ask for a jungler gank at 6 and try to burst her down before she can beardrop you. Lategame use your ultimate to counter-initiate after she uses hers to initiate a fight.

Replay Example:

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This lane is more decided by player skill. If the Gragas player can dodge the Qs and Ws, he will win the lane. Be careful when getting close though, you don't want to take a point blank EQ and then the rest of his combo. Brand's CDs are fairly long, so when he uses his W to farm, you can try to be aggressive if you are confident. Otherwise, play it safe. Brand's power is mostly in early/mid game so just outlast him and reach the lategame. If he uses his ultimate on you, E AWAY from your minions to avoid letting the ultimate bounce between them and you.

Replay Example:

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Against someone who knows how to play Cass, this is a really tough lane for Gragas. You are melee so you have no choice about getting close to the minions, and Cassiopeia will most likely land her Noxious blast on you. Try the best you can to avoid her poison and farm. Going in for the kill is really risky because of her ult, if you can time it right and flash behind her right as she ults, you can kill her, but that takes a lot of skill and timing. Lategame try to surprise her by jumping out of a bush and instabursting her before she can ult you. If you are good at remembering item actives, DFG can be extremely helpful for bursting in this matchup.

Replay Example:

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Treat her the same way that you would treat Akali. She trades the defensive aspects of the shroud for a small shield and better farming. Play the lane agressive starting at 3, and never let her get in CS range without taking some damage. Gragas is fairly powerful in melee range, so if she uses her moonfall pull, throw everything you have at her.

Replay Example:

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When she was first released, Elise was occasionally seen midlane. Now she is almost only played top and in the jungle, although if a lane swap occurs you may end up facing her in lane. Her Q harass in both human and spider forms are annoying and the damage can ramp up and add up quickly as she levels. Her spider form E (Rappel) can be used to dodge your Q or ultimate and can also chase you after using E. If she swaps into spider form, that is the time to play defensive as that usually means she is about to jump on you. Avoid her human form E stun as it sets up for a lot of damage.

Replay Example:
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Eve was flavour of the month in the midlane until both her and DFG got nerfed, but now she is coming back as a popular jungler rather than a mid laner. She brings great roaming and burst potential. Buy at least 1 pink ward per back, place it in lane. This is a very fast-paced midlane. When she is in lane pre-6, don't be afraid to trade damage, Eve is faily weak early on. However, once she gets her DFG and ultimate, you need to be careful and start farming from a far. Tell other lanes to get pink wards, because Eve will roam and go to burst down your allies (more likely bot than top). Either roam with her or push as hard as you can and tell other lanes to be careful. If you have the choice, don't pick Gragas in this match.

Replay Example:

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Fiddlesticks mid is rarely seen, but in the odd case he is difficult pre-6. His drain can sustain him through anything you throw at him so wait until 6 to get agressive. Make sure to ward the sides of the lanes and if possible the wraith camps to prevent surprise crowstorms.

Replay Example:

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Avoid this matchup matchup if possible. Fizz is just a bitch to deal with in general, he will Playful/Trickster your Qs and Rs, and since he can just walk through minions he can get out of the way of your E easily. He is also very bursty, but he depends on his ult to set up kills. Dodge the his ultimate, as it is a fairly slow moving skillshot. You will need some jungler help with this lane, try to get ganks early before Fizz gets his ultimate. When he Qs to you, return the favour by Body slamming him and if possible, throwing your Q.

Replay Example:

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Farm. You can't kill him and unless you do something stupid he won't kill you. Dodge his Qs and farm. Without jungler interference, both of you should get farmed up. The only thing over Galio is better ganks when you start to roam, Your huge knockback trumps his aoe taunt. Help your bot/top lanes win because Galio will farm, and he will hurt lategame. Try to avoid getting taunted when teamfights start, Your ultimate is a good counter-initate against Galio's flash ultimate.

Replay Example:

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Tough early, but gets easier when you are able to 1-shot his turrets with your barrels. Try to avoid hitting the turrets with your body slam, and farm. When he ults just disengage and wait for the upgrade to end. You can safely farm from a distance, and unless heimer has his turrets set up to kill all the minions, he has to stay at tower to farm. Gank, because heimer can't gank other lanes very well.

Replay Example:

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This is actually a pretty good lane for Gragas. Karthus is really squishy earlyame, and will just die if you harrass him. Constantly force him out of lane and while he is back at base clear the wave and then gank/steal wraiths. If you see him channeling his ultimate, throw yours in and ruin his day. If the karthus is good at landing his Qs, you want to move in a different direction each time to make it harder for him to hit you. He should be trying to farm, you should try to stop him. This is one of the matchups I reccomend an early banshees veil or heavy MR (Chalice/Athenes + Mercs)

Replay Example:

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A melee AP carry against a squishy melee anti-AP carry. Either swap with your Ranged AD or don't pick Gragas in this matchup. It is an extremely difficult lane for gragas post-6. Before Kassadin gets his ultimate, you can try to harrass with an EQ combo, but he will probably end up silencing you and giving you a void bitchslap if you charge at him. Post-6 just farm to the best of your abilities and stay away from Kassadin. He has the mobility to chase you down even through multiple body slams so don't assume you can escape a greedy kassadin just because you can slam through a wall.

Replay Example:

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Katarina is annoying in the right hands. Her constant Bouncing blade harass adds up over time, Sinister steel can punish you for charging into melee range and her Shunpo makes it difficult to harrass with Q. However, with good reaction times, you can punish her for shumpoing to you by quickly using your E followed up by Qs and autoattacks. Your ultimate stops hers, so be on your guard for a shumpo-ult combo and be ready to ult. In teamfights you can save your ultimate for when she ults, but good kats will wait until you use it. E away if possible to avoid damage.

Replay Example:

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This lane is just a huge pain in the ass. Kayle will slow you, speed her self up and kite you all around. If the Kayle has good reaction times or smart-self-cast enabled they can even block your ultimate with theirs (the damage not the knockback). If possible try not to pick Gragas in this matchup.

Replay Example:

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Kennen can be annoying for Gragas or an easy target, it depends on the opponent's playstyle. If the opponent EWs the minion wave to CS, he will constantly be getting into Melee range, allowing for a EQ combo. If he decides to farm with Q and autoattacks however, he can harrass you from afar and you may need to use barrels on harassing instead of CSing. He can dodge barrels pretty easily with his E, so its hard to harass. Farm and try to catch him out of position after he uses his E. An early hourglass is fairly useful in this matchup.

Replay Example:

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She hurts. Consider switching with your toplane. If you have to play against her, play extremely safe early. Once you can instaclear waves with your barrel, Instaclear and gank another lane. LB has trouble CSing under tower, so shove it in her face every wave and go to gank/steal wraiths. If she starts roaming, make the judgement to push the tower or follow her and countergank. Pink wards may be helpful to prevent her using her passive to escape.

Replay Example:

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I cannot think of a word to describe this matchup other than annoying. Her ult can either lock you down and set you up for more damage or ganks, or it could protect herself from your agression and/or ultimate. Try not to engage fights with her until her ultimate is down. Watch where her ice claw is headed and lead your barrels properly.

Replay Example:

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Dodge her Bindings and harrass her. If she uses her shield, wait for it to return to her before going in so the first shield is wasted. E away from lazers. She has decent farming, so you can't just push her face in, but you can instaclear and then threaten with E, just be careful not to eat a binding to the face. Post-6, she can instaclear with enough AP, and can also gank from far away with a lazer, so you need to be on top of your MIAs. Your ultimate does not stop hers, so unlike some channeled abilities, the only way to stop it is killing her.

Replay Example: http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/2585584/

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Malzahar is very strong against Gragas (luckily he isn't extremely popular). Even with drunken rage on, Malefic visions hurt, and since you need to get in melee range of the minions he gets free shots at you and can ult easier. When he lays down his pool, E away ASAP, as he will probably try to ult you. Your E doesn't make enough distance to break the channel, so he will get the full suppression. Lategame, if your team lacks CC, build a QSS and if he ults someone else, use your ultimate to break his channel.

Replay Example:

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Morgana is good at clearing idle waves, so instaclear and screw up her farming. Her ganks are even better than yours, so don't let her roam if you can. If she ults you, you should be able to RE to create enough distance to break the chains. Also, dodge her bindings. They are a slow skillshot so you should be able to E away in time. Bait black shields by dashing in and then just walking back. An early Hourglass helps you avoid a lot of damage in this matchup, but may set you up for easy bindings.

Replay Example:

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Morde does the same thing that you do, instaclears waves then go ganks. Just do it better than him. If you don't kill him early, you probably won't kill him at all, his shield absorbs a lot of your barrel harrass. Lategame try to seperate him from your AD carry and take him out.

Replay Example:

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Nidalee throws spears. Dodge them. Harrass while the cooldown on her spear is down. After level 6, its very unlikely that you can kill her, so keep farming and dodging. Like Leblanc, she has a hardish time farming under tower (assuming AP nidalee, AD nidalee farms like a boss), so shove it and gank. Not a lane gragas always wins, but he doesn't really lose either. She is difficult to chase, so be careful when using your ultimate on her, she may pounce in the wrong direction and get thrown to safety.

Replay Example:

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Orianna has picked up in popularity after the season 2 world finals, and is still a very strong character. Her autoattacks carry an additional magic-based punch, so her AA harass will do more damage than your average opponent. Stay away from the ball and harrass/farm from afar. Try to stay away from your minions so she has to give up CSing to harrass. She has similar area control (her Q/Resonance combo is just like your Q, just a slow rather than aspeed slow), so just outskill her. If you manage to stay away from the ball, you should be able to win this lane. Wait until the ball is on the field rather than on her to ult, as you don't want to bring the ball to you for an easy shockwave from Orianna.

Replay Example:

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Ryze is very strong against Gragas. His snare punishes you for dashing in, and since all of his spells are ranged and lock-on, he can freely harass you whenever he wants. His pre-6 laning is not as strong, and he has trouble CSing until he gets his tear/catalyst/ultimate, so shove early if you can. Post-6, dont even try to get anywhere near him. Clear the wave and gank, you won't beat ryze but you can still help your other lanes.

Replay Example:

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Sion will be doing basically the same thing as you all game. Instaclearing waves and then going to gank. He just has a stun instead of a knockback. The one big difference is you can stop him from farming while he can't really do the same back. Try to pop his shield from afar so he can't stunshield combo you. AD sion is a completely different story, and should be treated differently. He has a weak earlygame, so crush his face in and don't let him near to farm. If the opponent Sion is AD, it is very important to shut him down early before he gets items and his level 2 ultimate.

Replay Example:

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Swain is a tough lane for Gragas, his constant EQ and occasional Ws zone you off creeps. Pre-6 he has a bit of a hard time farming, so shove the lane the best you can. You really want to dodge his Ws, if he roots you say goodbye to at least half your health. His E will make him do even more damage to you, so when he uses torment back off. Post-6, wait until he turns his ultimate off to harrass, each time he toggles his ultimate off, you have an 6-8 second window to do as much damage as possible. Learn to abuse this window and you can possibly kill Swain. Ganks are nice in this matchup, but are risky because of Swain's W.

Replay Example:

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Syndra is one of the other champions I play fairly often in the midlane. This matchup can be in the favour of Gragas depending on how agressive he is. Syndra has a problem with champions that can get in her face, so Dash in and Q before she knocks you back. Maxing W second in this lane will reduce a large potion of the damage from her ultimate (reduces damage from each individual sphere). Her range is fairly low, so go on the agressive and force her out of lane.

Replay Example:

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Everyone hates Teemo. His consistant ranged harrass is annoying, and will add up over time. Push and gank, teemo can't really do either. Don't expect to win this lane, but do as much as you can to help your other two lanes win. Consider early pink wards to clear out mushrooms and make it easier for your jungler to gank / you to roam.

Replay Example:

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Twisted Fate has the range advantage on you, which makes this already annoying matchup even more annoying. Gragas has a large hitbox so its hard to dodge wild cards. TF can freely harrass you with his pick a card and stacked deck. His ganks are also better than yours considering the fact he has a semi-global teleport and can completely ignore wards. He does everything you do better, and aside from facing a bad TF, you will probably lose this matchup.

Replay Example:

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Veigar is basically the same thing as karthus, just he can instagib you at level 6. Try as hard as you can to stop him from farming, but don't get caught by his stun. You need to be smart with your agression. Try to ult him to you instead of dashing to him and then ulting, this gives him less time to react with a stun and lets you get right next to him without dashing through a stun. Also, gank more than he does. A Zhonya's Hourglass is a great purchase in this matchup.

Replay Example:

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Viktor is fairly annoying to face in general, moreso for a Melee champion like Gragas. His Power transfer is good at preventing counterattacks (especially at higher ranks), his Gravity field will stun you if you try to charge in, and his Death ray Instaclears just as fast as you after level 7ish. Viktor outclasses Gragas in everything but two categories: Initation and Escaping. The cooldown on his W is quite long, so wait for him to waste that to go in for the kill, since he has no way to escape other than killing you.

Replay Example:

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Vladimir gets annoying very fast, almost to the point of being as annoying as Fizz. Unless you manage to kill him before he buys a revolver, you probably won't kill him. Try to wait for his Sanguine pool to go on Cooldown before using your Q/R. His constant Targeted harrass will wear you down, so consider buying more health pots than normal and asking for the jungler to help often.

Replay Example:

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Along with Kogmaw (and to some extent Ziggs), Xerath is one of the few champions that can outrange your abilities. Normally this would be a bit of a problem for Gragas, but in Xerath's case, he has to lock in place to get that range, and when an opponent champion is locked in place, it is very easy to hit them with skillshots. Do the best you can to dive dip duck dodge and dive around his skillshots while hitting yours on the locked down Xerath. When he begins to ult, You can try to use your own ultimate to push him out of range, or use your E to dash away.

Replay Example:

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VS. [image loading]

Ziggs is like a ranged version of you, so naturally he has the advantage. His Semi-global presence will pressure you and your teammates to play defensive. If he throws his Q at you, it is possible to body slam under the bomb and dodge it completely, but Gragas has a large hitbox so this takes careful timing. Wait for him to use his satchel charge to go in for the kill.

Replay Example:

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VS. [image loading]

I haven't had much experience against Zilean mid, if you have any criticism on this matchup, please leave a comment or PM me.

Replay Example:

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VS. [image loading]

She is similar to Heimer in a way, although currently she is played more as a support character rather than mid. Many consider Gragas to be one of the best counters to her, but the early levels are a bit tough. Her snare is fairly scary, E away if you have the reaction time when she casts it. If she uses her ultimate on you, you can use yours to knock her out of the area and then dash out yourself.

Replay Example:

PHYSICAL DAMAGE BASED CHAMPIONS
+ Show Spoiler +

VS.

Khazix has incredible burst when you are isolated from your minions. This is one of the matchups you might want to stay in the safety of your creep wave.

Replay Example:

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VS. [image loading]

Lee sin mid has been popularized by some EU players recently, although I have no experience facing it. Any insight would be appreciated.

Replay Example:

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Talon is built to screw with AP carrys like you. He will jump in, QW you and then ult, either running away or finishing off his combo by AAing again. As soon as the silence ends, you need to EQ him and possibly ult. You will take a lot of damage in this matchup, you need to play safe and hug your tower. Call for jungle ganks and try to bait out his cuttthroat. If all else fails, swap with your top laner. Consider early pink wards.

Replay Example:

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VS. [image loading]

Zed is like talon on steroids. You will need to rush an hourglass in this matchup, otherwise Zed can just kill you every time his ultimate is up. He can use shadows to dodge your spells and make it very hard for you to go aggressive.

In Game
Early Game:
Depending on lane opponent, you can choose to farm during the early game or focus on being aggressive and forcing the opponent out of lane. If the opponent stands in a place (such as in their caster minions), throw a barrel at them and deal out some pain. At level 3 or 4 you can burst your opponent from about 50% health using QE+ignite.
For the first little while, you won't have infinite sustain, so try to limit yourself to 1 barrel per minion wave. After you get a Chalice or getting blue buff, you can afford more per wave.
After hitting level 6, look for opportunities to knock the opponents back towards you. Gragas's burst is considerably high, so don't be afraid to get more aggressive to secure kills.

Midgame:
After a tower or two goes down and teams start grouping up, it is your job to be at every teamfight/objective dealing tons of AoE damage and resetting bad engagements with your ultimate. If you can at this time, try to hog your team's blue buff (unless you have a blue-hungry jungler like Fiddle, who is a terrible partner for Gragas ._. ). You might want to save your E as an escape tool instead of a damage dealer, as once you start putting levels in to it, it does a fair bit of damage while your W is on.

Lategame:
Barrels everywhere. Continue to AOE everything, hog blue buff, and continue what you have been doing since the midgame. Isolate targets with your ultimate, throw your barrels in to poke, make the judgement of using E for damage or escaping. Your ultimate can turn the tides of a fight, and it will be at about 60 seconds cooldown, so don't be afraid to spam it for damage.
If the opponents start building MR (which they should be if they are good), now is a good time to get a void staff.
If you are getting focus fired every fight, hourglass and GA are good item choices.
Finally, Lich bane can be pretty good on Gragas after a certain point. W gives you AD, and since your E will move you to the opponents, your autoattacks can get pretty powerful along side your spells.

If your games don`t look like this, you are doing it wrong.

(Last Updated January 15th)

BlueBird.

United States3889 Posts

July 09 2011 04:00 GMT

Seems your like your playing him like a tank, I personally think he is best in a solo lane straight up AP, I haven't played him personally more than a few times, and I suck with his ult, but the few Gragas' I've seen play him well, do really well with him.

57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

July 09 2011 04:02 GMT

Well, not a tank as much as a soak. Kinda like mundo. I mean, his body can absorb a lot of abuse and he has both HP and mana sustain that don't take much to access.

"Beefy AP"

Two_DoWn

United States13684 Posts

July 09 2011 04:04 GMT

AP Gragas:

9-0-21, Standard caster.

Runes: Mpen red, MP5/lvl yellow, Ap/lvl blue, Flat Ap quints

Items: Open dring, grab boots and 1 or 2 more drings, rush cap, void staff, banshees, whatever else you need to live and deal damage (WOTA, Zhonyas, ECT)

In game: R>Q>W>E Farm, Farm, and farm some more. Use your barrels to farm up your cap as quickly as possible. Q creeps, drink every time you can, and just farm.

Late game: You are the initiator. Ultimate to grab open enemies, slam them, throw barrels around. You are really only as good as your initiation, so get good at timing and using your ultimate.

Dark.Carnival

United States5095 Posts

July 09 2011 04:11 GMT

always play gragas ap, anything else is an insult to how awesome he is at raping everyone

Odds

Canada1188 Posts

July 09 2011 04:55 GMT

I feel like AP gragas has to be sleeper OP: his mobility, survivability, range, and power are just huge-- and cooldowns are damn next to nothing.

Why is he not played like all the time by everyone?

sRapers_ValkS

United States644 Posts

July 09 2011 05:49 GMT

On July 09 2011 13:55 Odds wrote:
I feel like AP gragas has to be sleeper OP: his mobility, survivability, range, and power are just huge-- and cooldowns are damn next to nothing.

Why is he not played like all the time by everyone?

it seems like he's quite popular on EU. I know shushei plays a fair amount of gragas, as does oce, and i saw moma play him a bit on stream too.

Attakijing

United States693 Posts

July 11 2011 00:09 GMT

I think noobs dont play him because they write him off as a tank and play vladimir instead. im not sure why high elo's dont play him more...

edit: i think it might be because he is percieved as a "joke" character like prepatch gangplank.

LaNague

Germany9118 Posts

July 11 2011 01:12 GMT

A lot of people built him tanky back when locket was there so he was completely invulnerable, when locket was removed the tanky build kind of sucked so they just moved to next Op champ and wrote him off as useless.

Ap Gragas is still very strong and a very good laner.

57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

July 20 2011 00:46 GMT

#10

Ok, I've played him a lot more, and updated the OP to suit what I have found.
I would still like criticism on what I have wrote though, so if you see something wrong don't be afraid to point it out.

Lanzoma

Mexico813 Posts

July 20 2011 01:29 GMT

#11

Personally I build Gragas like this:

runes: mpen reds, ap/lvl yellows & blues, 2 ap quints 1 mpen quint
items: start dring, boots/drings (situational order), rush dcap, then match dependent
skills: R > Q > W/E

I don't agree with maxing W after Q. I believe you should only get as much W as you need to sustain yourself in lane, and the rest in E. Leveling E does not just give damage and lower cooldown, it also increases the dash speed and the dash length, which are crucial to fatting yourself through walls for better positioning throughout fights or to extend your potential Q/E combo range.

As an AP carry your role is to explode people, not mitigate damage. R into E is a guaranteed hit + slow if you lead it correctly, which lets you follow up with a Q even if they flash out. This generally kills or incapacitates anybody that gets caught until late game, and makes it perfectly safe to use E.

My setup might turn people off because of the lack of mana regen, and I admittedly run pretty low in lane 1-5, particularly if I'm top. However, you should only be using Q/E to harass that early anyway, not to last hit (always go for full damage E if you plan on using it in lane). I firmly believe that any more mana regen than necessary is a crutch, but if you really really need it I guess flat mana regen yellows are fine.

Edit: I hog blue buff really early because it gives you insta-wave clearing which allows you to roam, have perfect cs and explode faces in other lanes. Also, after 3 drings, you really really don't have any mana issues if you use one barrel per wave. In fact, you gain mana that way.

Hyren

United States817 Posts

February 01 2012 18:19 GMT

#12

Looks like this is where I should post this. So I've always thought Gragas looked really fun to play and I was tired of waiting for free week, so I bought him. Question: How on earth does one farm early game without eating your lane opponent's full burst? You can snag last hits here and there with a barrel but you still have to do the majority of last hits from melee range.

PrinceXizor

United States17713 Posts

February 01 2012 18:24 GMT

#13

It helps alot if you have rage currently in effect.

I_Love_Bacon

United States5765 Posts

February 01 2012 22:41 GMT

#14

On February 02 2012 03:19 Hyren wrote:
Looks like this is where I should post this. So I've always thought Gragas looked really fun to play and I was tired of waiting for free week, so I bought him. Question: How on earth does one farm early game without eating your lane opponent's full burst? You can snag last hits here and there with a barrel but you still have to do the majority of last hits from melee range.

Drunken rage should reduce some incoming damage and you hit so hard w/ it up, that you can easily last hit the minions. Also, you should be able to severely damage your opponent if they get to close. An E->Q combo or vice versa w/ Drunken Rage up for a few autos is a lot of damage to drop on an opponent who lacks a lot of health and armor.

Also, keep in mind that your passive should give you more sustain in lane. You can take a little extra damage and shrug it off after a couple of drunken rages + a barrel or two. Meanwhile, your opponent will have to blue pill or continue to drink pots to keep their HP up.

edit: Choosing when to farm with your barrels is important too. Given the range/damage on it, I almost primarily use it for harassment at lower levels more than farming. Knowing if/when to push the lane means where you should aim your barrel. Don't just blanket the minions and hit as many as you can unless you know you're ok w/ pushing the lane. Aim for the sides/front/back and just hit several whom are already weakened or can immediately finish off w/ a melee swing if it survives.

Nachielous

Jamaica114 Posts

February 01 2012 23:51 GMT

#15

Personally when I play gragas mid I drop a few points into magic resist. This gives me more of an edge over my opponent.

InvaderUK

225 Posts

February 02 2012 16:40 GMT

#16

I've always wondered this as well, I usually play ranged ap and find whenever I play someone like Graggy or Galio I just get destroyed early on by autoattack harrass. Later on you can just farm well with barrel but it always feels so restricting to play a melee champ in the early levels.

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

February 02 2012 17:35 GMT

#17

You can try tossing your Q out when you appear to go for a last hit and they're in position to harass you with autohit (and won't be expecting to have to dodge a fat galio/gragas Q).

InvaderUK

225 Posts

February 02 2012 17:39 GMT

#18

Yeah in that case you're essentially trading mana for last hits which is the same as just barrel farming, also they can still harrass you while cooldowns are down. I think on melee you just suck it up early game until you get blues.

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

February 02 2012 17:44 GMT

#19

No you're not, you're damaging them when they try to damage you, a barrel does more damage than an auto hit so that's what we people in Ziggs patch general discussion (huehue) like to call an "advantageous trade". Since there's only a certain amount of barrels they can tank it means that if you can do this a few times sucessfully you can secure free farm for a while.

If they get too cocky and they're low you just E into them and Q while they're slowed and start trucking them with your insane AD with drunken rage. Then their AP has to flash away and he gets asked "Howard how the fuck do you lose lane to gragas?"

Note gragas has both built in mana and hp sustain to make up for being melee, which means if you can trade at all you' re going to come out ahead. Galio is similar, but instead of health sustain (until he gets bulwark) he has really high mr and pretty high armour which means your potions are more effective. When he gets chalice he has insane mana sustain as well.

InvaderUK

225 Posts

February 02 2012 17:45 GMT

#20

I was assuming they'd be able to dodge the barrels, against decent players they'd probly get hit by 1 or 2 max.

I suppose it'd work if they were retarded and couldn't dodge though (players like me.)

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

February 02 2012 17:48 GMT

#21

Those masteries are driving me crazy... drop 1 from tier 1 AP and put it into buff duration and drop -death timer for +200 mana. I'd also say -3 quickness, + meditation.

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

February 02 2012 17:49 GMT

#22

On February 03 2012 02:45 InvaderUK wrote:
I was assuming they'd be able to dodge the barrels, against decent players they'd probly get hit by 1 or 2 max.

I suppose it'd work if they were retarded and couldn't dodge though (players like me.)

If they are autoing you when you last hit, then you start juking them by barreling them when you're just about to go for a last hit (but you don't last hit, you barrel them while they are locked down in auto hit animation).

Being "retarded" and not being able to dodge might just be not paying attention to your movement patterns, i.e an expierenced gragas might see you stopping to harass when he goes to last hit a ranged creep and he throws barrels at you and since you were distracted you're like "how the hell did that barrel just hit me???".

I don't play that much gragas though, I'm only speculating, I didn't think I'd have to explain this in 3 posts when I shouldn't really be posting in the gragas thread LOL.

57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

February 05 2012 19:49 GMT

#23

Yeah, im going to change the masteries in the OP, i am over the increased movespeed, mana and regen is more important especially earlygame.

Garraf

Austria34 Posts

February 06 2012 20:13 GMT

#24

Against certain matchups, you do have to be a bit careful of autoattack harass in the first few levels.

Your best bet in these cases is to try to use your barrels to last hit a caster minion or two while at the same time hitting your opponent. Your W helps mitigate harass damage, as well as allowing you to spam more spells. Your can surprise last hit with your E (instead of waddling forward which really telegraphs your intentions) and then step back. Your E is your most spammable and cheapest mana-costing ability in early game, so it can be useful to regen hp with your passive.

Later on you can clear entire waves with Q (or Q+E), then farm wraiths or go for a gank.

This might be relevant:

[image loading]

Gragas is one of the best AP farmers / minion wave clearers.

Canada4732 Posts

February 06 2012 20:36 GMT

#25

On February 07 2012 05:13 Garraf wrote:
Against certain matchups, you do have to be a bit careful of autoattack harass in the first few levels.

Your best bet in these cases is to try to use your barrels to last hit a caster minion or two while at the same time hitting your opponent. Your W helps mitigate harass damage, as well as allowing you to spam more spells. Your can surprise last hit with your E (instead of waddling forward which really telegraphs your intentions) and then step back. Your E is your most spammable and cheapest mana-costing ability in early game, so it can be useful to regen hp with your passive.

Later on you can clear entire waves with Q (or Q+E), then farm wraiths or go for a gank.

Gragas is one of the best AP farmers / minion wave clearers.

I've found that most players will not sit on their caster minion backlines (ie, stand to the side, generally with a ward to prevent the position from being liable to getting ganked) while harrassing or farming vs gragas so as to create a situation in which he has to use multiple barrels if he wants to harrass + clear, which costs enough time so as to prevent him from farming wraiths. If gragas uses bodyslam to mitigate the pushing, he sets himself up to get ganked, but if he's got his ult up he can shrug off most attempts on his life.

Gragas can tie most lanes pretty easily, but his main strength is being able to crush his lane opponents by ulting them into jungle ganks reliably, and abusing positioning + doing massive burst during team fights. He's pretty weak against heros like vlad in lane who have a near zero cast point nuke to farm and a way to avoid his ult. I've seen grag completely dominate brand/viktor/morg in lane, though.

I'd be interested in seeing how fizz and bomberman do against him.

57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

February 06 2012 20:43 GMT

#26

On the topic of Gragas vs Vlad, I have actually had decent success if you go agressive early, before Vlad can heal back all the damage. My CS does usually end up suffering a bit compared to when I just farm, but if you can get Vlad out of lane once or twice early, you can take that lead and run with it when he hits 7/9.

Of course, most of this depends on if the Vlad can dodge or not. From what I've seen at 1400, they can't

Canada4732 Posts

February 06 2012 22:17 GMT

#27

On February 07 2012 05:43 57 Corvette wrote:
On the topic of Gragas vs Vlad, I have actually had decent success if you go agressive early, before Vlad can heal back all the damage. My CS does usually end up suffering a bit compared to when I just farm, but if you can get Vlad out of lane once or twice early, you can take that lead and run with it when he hits 7/9.

Of course, most of this depends on if the Vlad can dodge or not. From what I've seen at 1400, they can't

Boots 3pots+ ms runes and 9/21/0 pretty much ensures vlad will not get hit by enough barrels to make a difference. 21/9/0 might be more tilted in your favor. You can try to push against him, but vlad farms surprisingly well at tower starting from level 3. Vlad hits 1278 (without the scaling gold component, i don't want to calculate that) gold with perfect farm 8 waves into the game. That's the 6:40 wave in mid.

For a level comparison, that means he needs to be gone by level 5.7 or so otherwise he's returning with a revolver and a handful of pots. At that point he heals for 100 per Q, which means if you miss a barrel per wave, he's up 300 hp.

Gragas can stalemate mid and go off to gank better than vlad can because vlad needs 2 tides to clear a wave, whereas grag can single barrel then body slam as he leaves to speed up his transit. I'd focus on farming into roaming/comboing ult off of a jungler's stun/snare rather than losing cs early by throwing barrels at an off-wave vlad.

57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

March 21 2012 14:27 GMT

#28

Alright, I've started to put a section in the OP detailing specific lane matchups. So far I have about a third of the matchups documented, Although some of them I have very little experience with.
I don't have much (if any) experience playing Gragas against the following champions:
Nidalee
Talon
Teemo
Viktor
Xerath
Ziggs
Zilean

Anyone who has insight on these matches, please post a reply.

Shiv.

3534 Posts

March 21 2012 14:41 GMT

#29

The only one I've played more than once or twice from that list is Talon. While in theory, he's supposed to counter most AP mids, I have yet to lose a lane against Talon. He has to come near you to do any harm, and by doing that, he enables a lot of options for you.

Pre 6, whenever he silences you, you simply wait till it runs out and then EQ him. Due to your W, he deals significantly less damage to you then he'd deal to other APs, and you generally come out ahead in trades since your E hits him for the full damage.

Post 6, it's pretty much the same. If he ults you, run towards his tower. If you react in time, he will still be in range for your R after the invisibility wears off. From there on, it's a simple game of EQ till he dies.

He's also not realistically going to waveclear with his W because if you play it smart, he'll always be in range for your barrels if he attempts to do so.

Smartcast really helps in that matchup, because it's so incredibly important to hit all your shit asap.

RosaParksStoleMySeat

Japan926 Posts

March 22 2012 08:12 GMT

#30

Gragas vs. Ziggs: ask for a switch!

Assuming equal skill, he will outharass you for the entire early game. You can harass back a little bit, but he can throw bombs and autoattack you, and with his passive it will hurt a lot. Since you're melee he can deny creep last hits until you can barrel one-shot caster minions, which for a properly runed and 3x Doran's Gragas doesn't come until level 9.

Honestly, you'd be much better off going top against a bruiser in this case. If you absolutely have to lane against Ziggs, watch out for his passive and use barrels to harass him whenever he goes in for a last hit. When you miss, just let your barrel marinate and melee last hit creeps as much as possible so he is slightly limited in his denying. Max W before E for the additional tankiness and mana, as you should be doing on all matches against heavy harassers as Gragas.

57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

March 22 2012 11:33 GMT

#31

On March 22 2012 17:12 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
Gragas vs. Ziggs: ask for a switch!

Imo Gragas vs Ziggs is basically a mirror match, except he has the ranged advantage. Both characters have quite a few similarities, but since Ziggs has the range advantage he should win.

HurrDurrrrPWNs

United Kingdom18 Posts

April 03 2012 09:20 GMT

#32

Last game I played with Gragas resulted in my barrels taking half of the enemies health each shot. AP gragas is very impressive.

Strykemard

168 Posts

April 12 2012 04:34 GMT

#33

On March 22 2012 17:12 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
Gragas vs. Ziggs: ask for a switch!

Though i havent played this matchup it doenst sound right to me. Gragas should be able to dodge Ziggs Q and be able to hit him with his barrel. This is because Ziggs bombs detonate on hitting a creep and if Gragas positions well he should be far enough out of range to avoid Ziggs hitting him directly, and creeps take the detonation so that it wont bounce to him.

NoobieOne

United States1183 Posts

April 12 2012 04:42 GMT

#34

Gragas vs Talon

Max Q -> W ->E
While your W is active you can outtrade talon on the early levels of the game. I've only played this matchup twice but both times I was able to force him back pre 6 (once with a gank I got a kill due to body slam's slow after talon used his jump)
While your W is not active you need to play a little more defensively and wait for opportunities
Post 6 the matchup depends on how much survivability you have. If you can survive talon's burst of a combo you should be able to ult him back into tower range followed by E Q ignite and that should be a definite kill because remember talon has to jump into you to combo. Your passive and your W gives you enough sustain to out poke talon and you can force him to engage in which case you should be able to survive.

Edit: I also run 21/9/0 as Gragas so that might help my survivability a little bit in this matchup.

Strykemard

168 Posts

April 12 2012 20:11 GMT

#35

Thats not really true. That would mean champs with skill shots never ever get played in high elo. That inclues nidalee( seen a lot ), ez ( seen enough ), and a lot more that done exactly come to mind. If you are at an elo where you play with them, it just comes down to your strengths and weaknesses. Landing skillshots is a strength of mine so I most often play heroes like lux or gragas or ez. Getting hit by a skill shot doesnt mean you are retarded. It just means you got outplayed.

Haasts

New Zealand4445 Posts

August 08 2012 22:52 GMT

#36

Bumping this as there's been a lil' bit of fat man discussion in GD and I've noticed a few more Gragii popping up on featured games / streams, and I think Soniv is playing a bit of him. With the current state of midlane heading towards instaclears and roaming, two traits Gragas excels at, how's he doing?

Also, since I can't easily find the information I'm looking for - with regards to Drunken Rage, is the mana gain affected by Chalice of Harmony? IIRC it applies to things like Insanity Potion/blue buff but not Swain's passive or Karthus' Defile, so probably not.

Also, I could have sworn there were some slated Body Slam changes and tweaks to his base stats on the PBE circa the Jayce patch, but I'm not sure if they translated to live:

Gragas

Health Increased to 523, from 493.
Bodyslam Mana Cost Decreased to 50 at all levels, from 50/55/60/65/70.

57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

August 10 2012 03:55 GMT

#37

I have no idea why they Buffed gragas in the Jayce patch, he was already extremely strong.
Right now he is OP, and judging from what I've seen in ranked play, a Gragas FotM may be coming soon.

Also, I played a gragas game against a 2k elo player, even though it was his first time playing AP ezreal, I performed well.

(The game starts at 5:00)
http://twitch.tv/theonlycholo/b/327819115

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

August 10 2012 04:08 GMT

#38

On August 09 2012 07:52 Haasts wrote:
Bumping this as there's been a lil' bit of fat man discussion in GD and I've noticed a few more Gragii popping up on featured games / streams, and I think Soniv is playing a bit of him. With the current state of midlane heading towards instaclears and roaming, two traits Gragas excels at, how's he doing?

Also, since I can't easily find the information I'm looking for - with regards to Drunken Rage, is the mana gain affected by Chalice of Harmony? IIRC it applies to things like Insanity Potion/blue buff but not Swain's passive or Karthus' Defile, so probably not.

Also, I could have sworn there were some slated Body Slam changes and tweaks to his base stats on the PBE circa the Jayce patch, but I'm not sure if they translated to live:

Show nested quote +

I don't think chalice affects his W.

Navi

5286 Posts

August 10 2012 04:46 GMT

#39

Gragas is very strong. Ever since i saw those buffs on the notes i knew he would be broken. His mobility is now greater than ever giving grag a lot of roam pressure as soon as he gets his first blue.
He essentially stalemates losing matchups and then applies pressure all over the map and farms while doing so

HAL9OOO

United States176 Posts

August 16 2012 19:31 GMT

#40

I've been trying jungle AD/Bruiser Gragas lately and its plenty fun. Maxing W first (not sure on whether to max q or e next) and starting either blue or red. He does tons of dmg early game. Just not completely sure how to build him. Have tried wriggles and gp/5 and usually end up getting a randuins at one point or another.

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

August 16 2012 22:13 GMT

#41

On August 17 2012 04:31 HAL9OOO wrote:
I've been trying jungle AD/Bruiser Gragas lately and its plenty fun. Maxing W first (not sure on whether to max q or e next) and starting either blue or red. He does tons of dmg early game. Just not completely sure how to build him. Have tried wriggles and gp/5 and usually end up getting a randuins at one point or another.

Haha. I tried triforce rush on gragas in Coop vs AI and in normals on my smurf. It's not terribad. He has some sticking power.

When I look at his kit, his W gives him some damage reduction and attack damage, and he gets in melee a lot. So he obviously benefits from crit by a lot and from attack speed a bit. I'd have pegged him for an AD bruiser meant to use the utility of his ult to catch people off guard and to mess up team fights if he were a new champion.

Just learned Q has an attack speed slow which seems to be all the rage right now (Ez, nunu, malphite)

MyTHicaL

France1070 Posts

August 24 2012 20:44 GMT

#42

How does this awesome fat man only have 40 posts in his thread ? Are all TL members affiliated with the AA?

Anyways, retarded bruiser jungle gragas discussion aside I'd like to know what your (generally speaking) gragas build is...

I used to basically rush dcap/vstaff almost every game, ocasionally going for boots of mob for mass ganking as opposed to sorc shoes (but have stopped doing that now since I'm under the impression that people are getting better at warding and/or are more wary of a MIA fat man). Sorcs are generally better...
My main curiosity is about this new "alex ich build" (someone called it that anyways, I have no clue if he was the one who first did it in the competitive scene or not)- sorcs, dorans, kayle's, abyssal, DFG, GA and then you go from there...
I've been trying it out in solo queue and switch between either an abyssal or dcap before the dfg depending on the circumstances and have had relatively decent results with it. Dcap is only if they have 1 AP who I'm completely dominating... The fast abyssal is actually really nice since you can get it with x2 dorans, sorcs, and kayle's by like 22minutes (earliest I've done is 16 but honestly you can't expect that every game..), and at 20-30minutes that extra -20 MR + + 29MP makes you almost true damage people since noone will have bought a neg cloak at this stage of the game unless your the only real threat to the enemy team.
Also the fast abyssal makes you tankier and more usefull to your team (obviously provided that your not the only magic damage dealing champion). Thoughts in comparison to the cookie cutter (Reginald) sorcs, 2-3 doran, dcap, vstaff build, and then generally rylais?
Alex: 7850 + 2 Doran, sorcs, +150ap +95 MR +68armour -20MRaura +one awesome %hp nuke + Resurection on death every 5minute, +5GP/10 untill you upgrade to DFG
Regi: 7150 ;5550 + Giants belt => 6650(dcap vstaff)=>7150 with giant's.; +210AP +40% MP + 430HP +30%AP

I mean obviously you'll be hitting harder with reginald's build in pure damage, but you lose so much utility. I don't know which is better, it's obviously situational but I'm starting to get used to being more durable in early-mid game team fights. . .

Maybe a slightly more tanky build is better for solo queue since you can't actually expect your team mates to help you in any way what so ever...

Thoughts?

I_Love_Bacon

United States5765 Posts

August 24 2012 21:54 GMT

#43

The reason Grag doesn't get a lot of posts is it's entirely about whether you land barrels or not. There's really not much more to him. You land barrels and win lane or you don't and you lose.

I can see the reasoning behind Ich's build, but I think Grag should be sticking to heavy burst damage. That said, I think getting DFG for Gragas is good, and Reginald should incorporate it into his build as well.

I tend to just go boots 3 (or 2 +1), 1 or 2 drings + Kage's, then the next 3 items are all up in the air between DFG/DCap/Abyssal and change depending upon team comp.

Tankiness can be nice on Gragas, but you have such long range that I don't love it that much. Idealy your ult splits them up and 1-2 of them are launched nearer to you to then E into while your team finishes them off. Building extra tankiness seems largely a waste in my experience.

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

August 25 2012 03:41 GMT

#44

Froggen also almost always does DFG on Gragas also. CDR is so important when your output is based on basically how many Q's you can throw, so having near-max CDR with blue buff all through the midgame is very nice. Also, DFG + Q + Ulti burst is incredibly strong. I'd say it's even MORE bursty than DCap builds, but I haven't done the math and it would also depend on what you're shooting at, since DFG is % MHP based.

57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

August 29 2012 23:02 GMT

#45

Body Slam
-Charge speed reduced to 900 from 1050
-Mana cost increased to 75 from 50

Explosive Cask
-Cooldown increased to 100/90/80 seconds from 90/75/60

Ouch. Those nerfs hurt. Gonna have to take another look at my build, the ult CD nerf is fairly signifigant. The charge speed reduction is also big, but I'l have to see how fast it is compared to before.

The good thing is they didn't nerf his damage. Factor a little CDR into your build and you are bursting just as hard as before.

zer0das

United States8519 Posts

May 08 2013 17:59 GMT

#46

I just wanted to say I've fallen in love with the fat drunk. Gragas is so fun to play and his impact on team fights is ridiculous. Knock one or two of the enemy into your team and laugh when they get bursted immediately, while knocking the rest of them far away. Combined with the baron stealing power from double tap barrels, the attack speed debuff on his q, and his high mobility, he feels so strong when played well.

He's also surprisingly robust and can go top lane- he doesn't really outright lose to many top laners, so it's easy to sit back and just farm while barreling the melee champion when they try to farm. And the displacement on his ult is amazing when responding to friendly or enemy ganks. Not to mention chasing him down over a prolonged distance is really hard given his dash.

I really like the two dorans rings/deathcap/morello's build that Scarra used in the LCS (probably some others). I find the extra health buffer is really quite nice early on and lets you play more aggressively.

57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

May 08 2013 21:28 GMT

#47

I'l have to try out that build a few times. Recently I've just stick with the early Chalice > spam poke until they are low > burst approach. If I need the health early, I usually just go for a Guise, but haven't really considered Drings.

zer0das

United States8519 Posts

May 09 2013 06:06 GMT

#48

Two doran's rings has its downsides (you're pretty much obligated to max w over e), but it's definitely a good alternative to chalice.

Also I've been thinking about the possibility of Gragas/Thresh. I know most wombo combos involve keeping people in the box, but if you land perfect explosive cask you could potentially knock their entire team in 5 different directions while applying the slow/damage from the box.

Was thinking something like Gragas/Malphite/Thresh could potentially be amazing. Thresh surrounds the enemy team in the box, Malphite ults in, Gragas knocks them every which way. Probably a better idea on paper than in reality. Although perhaps the combo potential alone would get the enemy team to spread out a ton, leaving them even more vulnerable to a single person eating a Gragas ult.

Seuss

United States10536 Posts

September 05 2013 16:12 GMT

#49

So I think Tank Jungle Gragas may be legit. Here's the deal.

Initial skill order is WQE. Max W first. This gives you durability, mana sustain, and mad auto-attack damage. Between Q's attack speed slow and W's crazy offense/defense steroid, Gragas can actually stand his ground well against many (though not all) of the better jungle duelists. Thanks to E's low, and flat, cooldown his early ganks are also nothing to sniff at.

You can choose to either max Q or E second. I've been tending toward E because its mana cost doesn't change, it scales with W, and you do need something mana-efficient to help you clear unless you're hogging blue buffs. However, Q is viable and even necessary if your team needs additional wave clear.

The standard meta build works really well. SS -> Golem -> SV -> Randuin's results in an incredibly tanky fat man. As long as you're spamming abilities in fights you're regenerating 0.5% Health per second, which is better than both Mundo and Garen's passives. Add in Q's attack speed slow, E's spammability, and the huge initiation/disruption threat from R and you've got everything the meta demands.

If you feel your team needs more damage you can swap Abyssal for Spirit Visage, or you can skip both for a Zhonya's if you want Armor/Damage because they have no AP threats.

You can run pretty much any runes/masteries you want, but I recommend a typical defensive setup.

Mauzel

United States421 Posts

September 05 2013 17:14 GMT

#50

The Warren Buffett of LoL is running jungle gragas.

Time to hop on the elo train and buy gragas miright?

Do you get Tabi's or Mobis? Are CDR boots viable?
What do his pre-6 ganks feel like and how good is he in 2v2 situations?

Seuss

United States10536 Posts

September 05 2013 18:03 GMT

#51

I'm Warren Buffet? o.O

Either Tabi or Mobi's work. I heavily favor Tabi, but that's personal preference. One of the critiques I've received regarding my jungling in the TL IHs is that I pretty much never go Mobi's.

His pre-6 ganks are strong thanks to the extremely low CD on Body Slam. Blue Buff combined with the ~10% CDR from my typical Rune/Mastery setup puts the CD at a mere 5 seconds. It also hurts like hell if you can isolate your target (80 + 66% of AD is easily 140+ damage at level 3).

2v2 he is actually surprisingly strong. He takes 10-18% less damage straight out thanks to W, slows attack speed by 20%, and has 30 additional AD. E hurts even if it's split between two targets. He's not quite Udyr/Lee Sin level in terms of dueling/2v2, but he's up there.

The hardest part of this is keeping your W up during fights. Unless fights are extremely one-sided the buff will almost always drop mid-fight. At that point you need to judge whether you can even channel it, what you might lose if you stop to do so, and whether you wouldn't have accomplished anything without it anyway (70 AD is a lot).

Seuss

United States10536 Posts

September 05 2013 18:17 GMT

#52

I'm actually jungling him now.

http://www.twitch.tv/montegomerylol

Game didn't go too well, but I honestly don't think the jungle Gragas pick had anything to do with it.

miicah

Australia2470 Posts

September 06 2013 12:51 GMT

#53

I've done it a lot on my smurf, even maxing Q can work although you need a mana item then.

Seuss

United States10536 Posts

September 12 2013 05:30 GMT

#54

Reporting back on Tank Jungle Gragas.

While I'm still of the opinion that it's legit, I highly doubt it will catch on. You have to land his ult in a team fight to be on par with other junglers, and that's going to be an issue for most players. That said, if your ults fall consistently between half-decent and awesome, then he's definitely a competitive option.

Late-late game he should definitely transition into an AP/Tank mix. While you may start Golem+SV+Randuin's, following it up with Abyssal + Zhonya's makea a huge difference in your late game teamfight presence.

miicah

Australia2470 Posts

October 15 2013 12:08 GMT

#55

Is Athenes -> Void staff a good option on Gragas? The % scaling is 90% on Q and 50% on E, with 100% on R. I'm not sure if that makes him a good candidate for going void second or not.

Duvon

Sweden2360 Posts

October 15 2013 16:39 GMT

#56

Ketara (I think?) came to the conclusion that unless you have a heal or shield benefiting a ton from AP, Void staff is pretty much always a better second item (than DC).

imBLIND

United States2626 Posts

October 15 2013 21:27 GMT

#57

It's not a bad idea, especially if you're not able to find the gold to get an NLR in one back. Some people don't even get athenes as a first item if they can get a NLR after 2 Drings.

dae

Canada1600 Posts

October 15 2013 22:29 GMT

#58

On October 16 2013 01:39 Duvon wrote:
Ketara (I think?) came to the conclusion that unless you have a heal or shield benefiting a ton from AP, Void staff is pretty much always a better second item (than DC).

Deathcap allows you to farm easier, and waveclear easier, though its less gold efficient for killing champions.

clickrush

Switzerland3257 Posts

January 03 2014 10:39 GMT

#59

you don't need that much ap to waveclear as gragas though. you can 1 shot ranged with athenes+voidstaff. I've been building deathcap most of the times because everyone does it but voidstaff seems to be the better option, especially when you want to use E offensively you bump into bruisers quite often. Popular items like sv, mercs, athenes make voidstaff a really good second item.

Going athenes first is right in 80% of the time. When I face AD assassins/carries like riven/yasuo/zed etc. Then I delay athenes for about 3 items and go a RoA + HG first. The cool thing about gragas: He can also be played more aggressively/tanky if needed because he scales so well with defense items as well.

chalice

United States1945 Posts

February 08 2014 00:10 GMT

#60

is W or E the standard second skill to max? maybe E max with athene's, W first without the chalice regen?

zer0das

United States8519 Posts

February 08 2014 00:51 GMT

#61

Before they changed E it used to be W most of the time, but I would think given how much extra damage E does now, E is probably preferred in most cases.

Either is fine though, depending on what you want.

krndandaman

Mozambique16569 Posts

February 08 2014 02:32 GMT

#62

--- Nuked ---

arb

Noobville17921 Posts

February 08 2014 10:21 GMT

#63

On February 08 2014 09:10 chalice wrote:
is W or E the standard second skill to max? maybe E max with athene's, W first without the chalice regen?

the damage reduction + free mana is pretty huge tbh.

dae

Canada1600 Posts

February 08 2014 23:11 GMT

#64

On February 08 2014 19:21 arb wrote:

Show nested quote +

the damage reduction + free mana is pretty huge tbh.

If your not going athenes first item not maxing W second is kinda stupid. You really need the mana at that point.

With athenes, I usually only go 2 points in w then max e for the cdr.

Bam Lee

2336 Posts

February 09 2014 11:28 GMT

#65

On February 09 2014 08:11 dae wrote:

Show nested quote +

If your not going athenes first item not maxing W second is kinda stupid. You really need the mana at that point.

With athenes, I usually only go 2 points in w then max e for the cdr.

E has a fixed CD it isn't lowered with levels
Usually W is maxed 2nd because of the dmg reduction and free mana. While the 40 body slam damage are kinda tempting they are rarely needed to finish somebody off and if you ever body slam offensively the dmg reduction and additional ad are pretty useful in a duel.
But I guess you can also argue the W scaling is not that great to justify putting more points into it.
I always go W max

57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

February 09 2014 21:12 GMT

#66

On February 09 2014 20:28 Bam Lee wrote:

Show nested quote +

From what I've noticed, you don't really duel with gragas. You poke them to whatever hp and the surpriseEQRIgnite and they are dead. I've been maxing E even when going deathcap first. I would only really max W if the opponent laner got ahead early and is zoning/harassing you a lot.

imBLIND

United States2626 Posts

February 09 2014 22:45 GMT

#67

On February 10 2014 06:12 57 Corvette wrote:

Show nested quote +

unless you're playing yasuo.

miicah

Australia2470 Posts

February 13 2014 01:03 GMT

#68

On February 10 2014 06:12 57 Corvette wrote:

Show nested quote +

And if you do duel him you lose to pot+W+enhanced autos. Damn I love Gragas.

SagaZ

France3460 Posts

April 05 2015 07:00 GMT

#69

Quick S5 update, jungle gragas with cinderhulk is insane.
Start W at toad or double golems, lvl 2 E or Q, (I personally prefer E). max Q first, then W.
Full tank items, you do a lot of damage without items, I usually go for the chilling smite thing, ranger is also a very good option, i have even seen some people go for the red smite.
you become a monster tank, amazing sustain, and you do tons of damage.

GrandInquisitor

New York City13113 Posts

April 07 2015 15:20 GMT

#70

Why max Q over W? Each rank in Q adds 40-60 damage, 5.0-7.5% slow, and reduces the cooldown from 11 -> 7s. Each rank in W adds 30 + 1% max health damage, 2% damage reduction, and reduces the cooldown from 8 -> 4s.

So depending on how charged the Q is, W outdamages Q on targets with 1000-3000 health. The increased slow is nice, but the damage reduction (with any CDR you have permanent W uptime) + increased DPS (because of W's inherently lower cooldown) seems to make up for it.

SagaZ

France3460 Posts

April 07 2015 17:34 GMT

#71

I don't know how other do it, but personally I like Q max first. Most of it is because it is your gank tool so the slow duration is crucial. Getting the W hit is hard without slow if you don't have your E up. The damage increase from both is similar, especially if you take into account that Q can hit multiple targets and doesn't have the requirement of reaching melee range. Ultimately you're making a choice, would you rather have more slows at level 9? or more tankyness? I always go for the slow but I can imagine games where maxing W could be better.

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