ftfy

Also, have you considered running more offensive masteries like 21/0/9 to pick up your clear speed? I know you like to run 21 in defense and open philo+hog, but I think there might be something to be said for opening with more aggressive masteries and a faster wriggles. Maybe that'll help.

crate

United States2474 Posts

July 20 2011 14:07 GMT

#362

If Jungling, I run:
21/0/9
Ghost/Smite
7 ArPen Marks, 2 Attack Speed Marks, 1 Attack Speed Quint, 2 Flat AD Quints, Flat Armor Seals, Magic Resist/Level Glyphs

From the OP....

So, uh, yeah he's definitely considered it.

HyperionDreamer

Canada1528 Posts

July 20 2011 14:10 GMT

#363

On July 20 2011 23:07 crate wrote:

Show nested quote +

From the OP....

So, uh, yeah he's definitely considered it.

I noticed it was listed in the OP, but whenever I watch him stream he runs it 0/21/9, opening philo and hog. I've been doing both builds on and off for the past few weeks, and 21/0/9 with cloth armor first seems to net you much more farm in the early game, which translates to power later on.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

July 20 2011 14:29 GMT

#364

On July 20 2011 23:10 HyperionDreamer wrote:

Show nested quote +

the speedier path get mauled by counter jungling and leads to less consistent games at my elo. It was great at lower elos though. as it turns out, rushing wriggles leads to a much less consistent farm game and is really really reliant on getting an early gank or two to fund your wriggles early enough to not snowball out of control to an under leveled and under farmed mid game. At least that's how I saw it.

rwrzr

United States1980 Posts

July 20 2011 14:49 GMT

#365

Are you sure its not the GREED + 2x Gold/5 = MAD GOLD!

GiygaS

Canada1043 Posts

July 20 2011 14:57 GMT

#366

Well, what if you build whatever to how your ganks went? Obviously your going to build Razors and boots first with some wards and such (No Razors DOES lose you a lot of farm). Then, depending on how your ganks go, go Philo -> HoG -> Wriggles if they didn't go well. Wriggles -> Philo -> HoG if they did go well?

EDIT:

On July 20 2011 08:49 LancerStarcraft wrote:

Show nested quote +

I get the same feeling. I mean his level 2 and 3 ganks are awesome, but I just feel so slow in the jungle and really susceptible to having my camps stolen. I dunno I just always feel spectacularly underfarmed in the jungle.

This is how I feel when I play Udyr, I always love his level 2 or 3 ganks, but I always feel soooo underleveled. I feel oppositely with Jarman, mostly because of small golem and wraith jacks.

HyperionDreamer

Canada1528 Posts

July 20 2011 16:06 GMT

#367

On July 20 2011 23:29 Mogwai wrote:

Show nested quote +

When you say much less consistent farm game, is that because of the aforementioned counterjungling? The thing I don't like about opening 0/21/9 with regrowth is that after blue - wolves - wraiths I get down to like 65 hp most of the time, and it forces me to blue pill and heal. Granted, at that time I have almost bang on 365 gold to get my philo, but going back that early leads to a lot of sacrificed map presence and leaves the door open to the counterjungling that messes with jarman so much. If you open cloth+5, you can do a straight clear skipping red and end up at full hp.

I find that most of my successful level 2-3 ganks come from punishing a lane that's overextended right around the time I'm taking my wolves or wraiths, and opening regrowth is going to leave your health a lot lower after those camps.... The biggest beef I have personally with opening philo + hog + wriggles is that I feel way too squishy in early teamfights.

I guess you could be reactive and build depending on your gank success/failure. I think one of the biggest hindrances to going with philo+hog+wriggles is that the wriggles feels so late that it's hindering you building one of your first big items like warmogs or whatever. I'd almost prefer going philo - wriggles and then going right into one of your big items, since you'll be able to finish it right around the time the opposing carries will be getting one of their big items up, which will make you more useful in team fights over dragon and such.....

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

July 21 2011 21:39 GMT

#368

OP has been fully revamped. =3

NeoIllusions

United States37500 Posts

July 21 2011 22:12 GMT

#369

This OP never fails to put a smile on my face. From all the FF sprites to the "Bravest Path".

<3 Smash.

HyperionDreamer

Canada1528 Posts

July 21 2011 22:49 GMT

#370

Hahah, awesome OP smash. When I was reading it from the beginning, I was hoping that you would put a section in on Jarmander/Jarizard, and I was very happy to see you included it. ^_^

calgar

United States1277 Posts

July 21 2011 23:46 GMT

#371

Slightly off topic, but since it was just being discussed, what exactly is the 'fast' jungle path vs. slow? I'm guessing fast is something like wolves -> wraith -> golems where you don't do the blue first? And why exactly is it more prone to counter-jungling?

nesteaplunger

70 Posts

July 22 2011 01:54 GMT

#372

How are you supposed to lane against akali 1v1 at top? Her Q keeps you away and her stealth cloud is annoying. I tried laning passively but that just lets akali get farmed.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

July 22 2011 05:13 GMT

#373

On July 22 2011 08:46 calgar wrote:
Slightly off topic, but since it was just being discussed, what exactly is the 'fast' jungle path vs. slow? I'm guessing fast is something like wolves -> wraith -> golems where you don't do the blue first? And why exactly is it more prone to counter-jungling?

big wolf -> blue -> small wolves -> wraiths -> red -> golems with 21 offensive. It's more prone to counter jungling because you get lower HP and are at more or less standard timings that counter junglers are trying to exploit.

On July 22 2011 10:54 nesteaplunger wrote:
How are you supposed to lane against akali 1v1 at top? Her Q keeps you away and her stealth cloud is annoying. I tried laning passively but that just lets akali get farmed.

mmm, it's really snowbally. you gotta establish a lead early, which is tough at times, but I think the best way to go about it is to push the lane early and try to smack her up with an early level 2 then play ahead all the time. you should be able to negotiate burst trades since all your shit is AoE and not point and click, so you can hit her even under shroud, so again, it's all about getting ahead to start with.

-Zoda-

France3578 Posts

July 22 2011 09:36 GMT

#374

I'm quite a beginner player and I've never really played tank(y DPS). I consider to buy Jarman to fill this role, do you guys think it's a good choice, or I'd better buy another champ ?

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

July 22 2011 15:11 GMT

#375

Yes, Jarman is still probably the top tanky DPS after Udyr, WW, and Yorick.

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

July 22 2011 15:38 GMT

#376

Thoughts on running flat AD quints and going 15/0/15 or 21/0/9 so that you can win the lane at level 2?

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

July 22 2011 15:46 GMT

#377

On July 23 2011 00:38 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Thoughts on running flat AD quints and going 15/0/15 or 21/0/9 so that you can win the lane at level 2?

are you talking about specifically vs. Akali or what?

Jarman scales really well with ArPen because of the Armor reduction off of Q, so I tend to advocate double ArPen if you want to spec more offensively, though I guess vs. squishies that might be overkill @ level 2 and the AD would be more beneficial. I dunno, in theory it could work vs. weird matchups, but later in the game you damn well better have another real tank on your team if you're not specced 21 in defensive.

Southlight

United States11761 Posts

July 22 2011 15:52 GMT

#378

On a side note, having played a Kass vs Jarv matchup yesterday, I realized how much Jarvan got "fixed" when they fixed the glitch with his Q where it used to be flat reduc instead of %...