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On November 28 2011 19:12 R04R wrote:
transfer the 3 points from havoc to meditation then. havoc isn't very point efficient, while meditation is.
the 3rd point in enlightenment will put ryze over cdr cap when he has level 5 Q and frozen heart
The third point reaches CDR cap when you're level 13 with Q5 and Frozen Heart. If you don't get it, you're not CDR capped even at level 18, which seems silly. 13 is probably about when you're finishing frozen heart anyway (assuming tear -> catalyst + glacial -> FH + Banshee) and you're probably using blue once or twice between levels 7-13, and CDR isn't making a huge difference before level 5, where you're mostly just throwing out a Q or QWQ and not going into an extended spellchain because your mana can't handle it yet. If your FH is delayed past 12 for whatever reason, then Enlightenment helps more than Intel would, but only marginally so.
The biggest deal is whether you want to be more meaty, or if you want summoner CDR. Mana regen is kinda... ok. I still don't have mana/level Seals, and I'm not sure they'd be that much better than mana regen. 200 mana is decent, but an extra mana crystal AT 18 when you have 4k+ mana feels a little underwhelming.
Addendum:
Wouldn't ROA instead of banshee's veil be a good idea vs a team that you don't hugely need to stack MR vs, and/or that will just poke off your banshee easily? The additional health can easily match the 1 unblocked spell, and you get quite a lot of additional mana once ROA charges up, too, as well as AP that affects your W and E in not ENTIRELY negligible ways.
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On November 29 2011 04:02 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 03:52 Woony wrote:
Does anybody else feel like he never does well on Ryze? I smartcast, I charge my tear like a mofo and farm all game but I still never feel like im doing really well. Its probably just a question of positioning, I feel OP as hell playing ryze because I can instantly punish the slightest overextension and completely negate all the damage their melee does in teamfights. Just work on coming from a slightly odd angle in teamfights, not super aggressive but just enough to land your snare when they don't want to be snared, and also practice your kiting. With smartcast and decent kiting characters like riven and garen with huge damage and armor will come after you and you just laugh as they cant touch you and realize they cant disengage either. The only aspect Ryze doesn't feel strong as is in 1v1 situations with AP, or AD carries in the earlier game, as his best skill has really no effect on them.
I'm probably just too agressive I'm always like "Im Ryze I can't die and do infinite damages" and then I overestimate how much damage I can take and die TT
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Ok, so just played a game as Ryze. Started the game off poorly, getting dominated by Orianna mid. I got a few assists off ganks, but i went about 3-6 in the early game.
Then teamfights started.
End score:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GLguz.png)
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On November 29 2011 03:32 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 01:26 sob3k wrote:On November 28 2011 19:37 wussleeQ wrote:
i never understood why people want points in meditation for ryze. 3 points is a lot and 3 mregen on him feels like nothing tbh. i just go 0-21-9 and it feels great that or 0-9-21. mana per level yellow mpen red flat mana blue ms quint.
Personally its very noticable early game, you often end up vs champs who push the lane far harder than you can and being able to use Q to last hit under the tower longer directly results in better CS. Sure later you don't care, but most masteries barely effect anything later game. Pretty much this. Also: how do you justify 9 points in defense over 9 in offense?
Extra mr and a lot more health early on will help you win your lane. 4 ap and 10% mpen makes for a small difference. people underestimate sometimes how much a bit of MR can do in a lane i believe. damage is sufficient enough so that all i need for mpen is reds early game and voidstaff later on. just my opinion.
i've gone 16-3 with 0-9-21 and 3-1-8 vs a cass going 0-21-9 masteries. of course this is only at 1600's so my advice should be taken with a grain of salt (is that how that saying goes?)
also. it should be easy to last hit for ryze esp under tower. i don't know. personally, i don't really run into mana problems unless i'm going against a big pusher like morg but i always ban her :l
but for most cases... if i find myself being pushed i will one shot every caster minion to cs better under tower, Q whenever the other person is trying to cs (if he goes in farther combo him QWQEQ auto attacking him also when you can, you should win trades in most cases) and also try to push lane with autoattacks to keep it about even or as even as possible.
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On November 29 2011 09:57 wussleeQ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 03:32 Shiv. wrote:On November 29 2011 01:26 sob3k wrote:On November 28 2011 19:37 wussleeQ wrote:
i never understood why people want points in meditation for ryze. 3 points is a lot and 3 mregen on him feels like nothing tbh. i just go 0-21-9 and it feels great that or 0-9-21. mana per level yellow mpen red flat mana blue ms quint.
Personally its very noticable early game, you often end up vs champs who push the lane far harder than you can and being able to use Q to last hit under the tower longer directly results in better CS. Sure later you don't care, but most masteries barely effect anything later game. Pretty much this. Also: how do you justify 9 points in defense over 9 in offense? Extra mr and a lot more health early on will help you win your lane. 4 ap and 10% mpen makes for a small difference. people underestimate sometimes how much a bit of MR can do in a lane i believe. damage is sufficient enough so that all i need for mpen is reds early game and voidstaff later on. just my opinion. i've gone 16-3 with 0-9-21 and 3-1-8 vs a cass going 0-21-9 masteries. of course this is only at 1600's so my advice should be taken with a grain of salt (is that how that saying goes?) also. it should be easy to last hit for ryze esp under tower. i don't know. personally, i don't really run into mana problems unless i'm going against a big pusher like morg but i always ban her :l
Mhm, alright. I mostly lane him top these days and I feel the extra MPen is greatly beneficial up there, while MRes does not do all THAT much, depending on the matchup.
I however have been experimenting with 12/15/3 over 9/0/21 and I really like it. I do run into SOME mana problems, though. Would 1,5% damage and .15% CDR/lvl be a worthwile trade for 3MP5? It doesn't seem like much, but IIRC, it's crazy costefficient.
Oh, by the way: yep, that's how this saying goes.
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On November 29 2011 10:07 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 09:57 wussleeQ wrote:On November 29 2011 03:32 Shiv. wrote:On November 29 2011 01:26 sob3k wrote:On November 28 2011 19:37 wussleeQ wrote:
i never understood why people want points in meditation for ryze. 3 points is a lot and 3 mregen on him feels like nothing tbh. i just go 0-21-9 and it feels great that or 0-9-21. mana per level yellow mpen red flat mana blue ms quint.
Personally its very noticable early game, you often end up vs champs who push the lane far harder than you can and being able to use Q to last hit under the tower longer directly results in better CS. Sure later you don't care, but most masteries barely effect anything later game. Pretty much this. Also: how do you justify 9 points in defense over 9 in offense? Extra mr and a lot more health early on will help you win your lane. 4 ap and 10% mpen makes for a small difference. people underestimate sometimes how much a bit of MR can do in a lane i believe. damage is sufficient enough so that all i need for mpen is reds early game and voidstaff later on. just my opinion. i've gone 16-3 with 0-9-21 and 3-1-8 vs a cass going 0-21-9 masteries. of course this is only at 1600's so my advice should be taken with a grain of salt (is that how that saying goes?) also. it should be easy to last hit for ryze esp under tower. i don't know. personally, i don't really run into mana problems unless i'm going against a big pusher like morg but i always ban her :l Mhm, alright. I mostly lane him top these days and I feel the extra MPen is greatly beneficial up there, while MRes does not do all THAT much, depending on the matchup. I however have been experimenting with 12/15/3 over 9/0/21 and I really like it. I do run into SOME mana problems, though. Would 1,5% damage and .15% CDR/lvl be a worthwile trade for 3MP5? It doesn't seem like much, but IIRC, it's crazy costefficient. Oh, by the way: yep, that's how this saying goes.
Oh. Okay. Top lane probably would make a huge difference in terms of what masteries to choose lol. I usually just like to build fairly defensive and would probably just get a chain vest -> glacial shroud after getting tears and boots to counter top (this if it's a AD type of champ). I generally play ryze as a tanky dps but going for a more offensive playstyle works too.
I would take 1.5% and .15% cdr over the 3mp5 personally. Like the way I play with most mages, I try to just conserve as much mana as possible and I'd take the damage over the 3mp5.
If anyone is wonder, if I'm mid, I'll usually go tears->boots->cata->merc->negatron or glacial shroud->then whichever one you didn't get-> hextech revolver->now i'll either finish all of my items depending on how the game is going or go voidstaff is there is a lot of MR on the other team. finishing tears last. Final build will be... mercs->frozen heart->BV->AA->WOA->voidstaff or more defense.
I also run exhaust flash because i believe exhaust lets me unload more damage onto the other summoner making me a much stronger 1v1 champ and ignite is more useful to just finish people off.
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So if you run flat mana runes on everything except reds(magic pen) you only get 20 extra damage on your Q is this worth it?
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It's worth it because not only do you get more damage, you get more mana to spam stuff!
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The extra mana basically gives you 3 free Overloads on your enemy, which is 400 damage at level 2.
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On November 29 2011 10:40 Bwaaaa wrote:
So if you run flat mana runes on everything except reds(magic pen) you only get 20 extra damage on your Q is this worth it?
If your going mid then yes.
If you are going top then no.
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Do people generally go 0/21/9 on Ryze now? I feel like initator and the CDR/level defensive masteries are too good to pass up...you lose a bit of movespeed when <70% health, and some magic penetration if you were to go offensive, but I'm not really seeing a big downside here... you're crazy tanky early on making it really hard to lose your lane. I do that then go magic resist/level glyphs and then trash AP casters. :>
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The cdr and magic pen is really good though. I've been going 9/12/9 on Ryze.
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Ive been playing 9/0/21. Taking spell penetration/CDR in offense, and then spell vamp/CDR/mana masteries in ult. The reasoning is pretty simple - with those CDR masteries and a frozen heart you reach 40% CDR cap. Also gives you some extra mana regen which is incredibly helpful in the early laning phase and when you want to start building up your tear. Spell vamp is sweet for Ryze, so thats a nice mastery to take. The change back to %health regen based on mana is awesome for Ryze too. By using these masteries and buying a frozen heart, you reach the CDR cap (necessary imo) and get some pretty useful mana/health regen, whilst still holding onto the offensive spell pen and getting some other useful utility stuff (gold on kill, buff duration, spell vamp, movement).
Now the real question - is it worth picking up some spell vamp quints, to play spell vamp quints + magic pen reds + flat mana yellow/blues... Or just continue with my boring flat health quints... mhmm
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Oops, forgot they brought back Strength of Spirit. You get ~38% CDR with Frozen Heart and defensive cooldown masteries, if you go 9/21/0 you'd hit cap easily too. But then you miss out on the extra mana and a bit of movespeed. My experience has been initiator is pretty crazy useful- I'm usually running around near full health from the ultimate, and if you have a sustain support that's even more the case. You catch someone slightly out of position and you can win a team fight in a blink of an eye.
I run movespeed quints though. I'm kind of tempted to pick up spell vamp quints, but I actually think they'd be a bit overkill in most laning situations... useful for team fights no doubt.
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The way i look at spell vamp quints... Well, Ryze is known for his typically weak early laning phase, which is why I personally gear everything to improving that, seeing as his best item build consists of tanky late game items. And, spell vamp is quite useful in longer team fights, which can sometimes be the case with fights involving Ryze. Havent actually got the quints, so i have no idea how it would ACTUALLY be, but on paper it looks tasty...
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United States47024 Posts
From a purely laning standpoint, Spellvamp quints aren't going to be better than choosing the appropriate resist quints for your lane opponent (armor quints vs. physical, mr quints vs. magical).
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My friend has this build that alleviate his weak early game.
It's called Tear + Boot + 3 mana crystals
One crystal eventually becomes catalyst -> Banshee
One crystal eventually becomes frozen heart
One crystal eventually becomes rod of ages
You have so much early game mana it's insane damage right off the bat. Build 2 catalyst for tankiness.
It's really a LOT better than aiming for 1 final item, when you can sit with 4 intermediate item each of which give you massive mana
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Ok first of all, you don't want to build rod of ages on ryze. Even if you did, thats really late and it won't be stacked. Wota is much better. Also you want a catalyst asap after tear because its one of the best laning items in the game and keeps you from exploding in fights. So that 3 mana crystal thing not gonna work out so well.
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On December 20 2011 07:49 evanthebouncy! wrote:
My friend has this build that alleviate his weak early game.
It's called Tear + Boot + 3 mana crystals
One crystal eventually becomes catalyst -> Banshee
One crystal eventually becomes frozen heart
One crystal eventually becomes rod of ages
You have so much early game mana it's insane damage right off the bat. Build 2 catalyst for tankiness.
It's really a LOT better than aiming for 1 final item, when you can sit with 4 intermediate item each of which give you massive mana
His early game is weak because he's not tanky enough to stay in and cast 30 spells in a row yet. It's not a lack of damage (this build, by the way, doesn't really add THAT much damage, and once you have tear, your mana REGEN is mostly handled for the early game.)
Once you have tear+catalyst, you're not particularly weak anymore, particularly if you get a bluebuff or two in this area to max your CDR pre-heart.
ROA is an OKAY 4th big item on Ryze, but so is WotA. IMO, however, wota is better because at the point where you already have mega good resists, revolver way outshines yet another catalyst (Though HP isn't exactly a bad stat when you're looking at high armor and MR)
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On December 20 2011 07:49 evanthebouncy! wrote:
My friend has this build that alleviate his weak early game.
It's called Tear + Boot + 3 mana crystals
One crystal eventually becomes catalyst -> Banshee
One crystal eventually becomes frozen heart
One crystal eventually becomes rod of ages
You have so much early game mana it's insane damage right off the bat. Build 2 catalyst for tankiness.
It's really a LOT better than aiming for 1 final item, when you can sit with 4 intermediate item each of which give you massive mana
Ryze has crazy early game damage? He's really not weak at all early game; Only champions that can out-lane him are good harassers that can stay behind their minions.
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EPT
