EPTUdyr is a terrible initiate anyway, flash bear is a best a bad version of taric stun, which also isnt an initiate.
[Champion] Udyr - Page 44
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Slayer91
Ireland23401 Posts
Udyr is a terrible initiate anyway, flash bear is a best a bad version of taric stun, which also isnt an initiate. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On January 09 2013 08:05 Slayer91 wrote: alacrit and or furor help you all the time, distortion helps you in the situations where you need flash and it is 30-40 seconds on CD. Everyone can use flash really well, very few get distortion boots. Things work themselves out because you don't initiate without flash because sometimes you can't until you have it. Udyr is a terrible initiate anyway, flash bear is a best a bad version of taric stun, which also isnt an initiate. I'd probably take alacrity, but distortion is pretty good too, prob situational on which one id get tho. You shouldnt really have to initiate on Udyr though. Really think you need a team mate who can initiate for you, and you just follow up and pimp slap stuff | ||
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unjugon
Spain119 Posts
For sure it sounds awkward and I am still testing stuff. Upgrading to Manamune kinda doesn´t work because you are just squishy all-around. Rushing Archangel´s after Tear+Mercury Treads is a possibility I still haven´t crossed out. This gives close to 110 AP and people really do not see the damage from Phoenix coming. However, if going the Seraph´s Embrace path, I would go 15/0/15 masteries. This allows you to grab both types of penetrations and Spellsword masteries in the offense tree, and up to Strength of Spirit in the utility tree. For the rest of the build, I am testing something like Spirit Visage+Iceborn and sometimes even the new Rageblade. This might not be the tanky Udyr we have come to apprecciate and shouldn´t go in first, but can still take a couple hits and is I feel much more dangerous. Grabbing the early Tear you basically notice little difference in clear times compared to Spirit Stone, due to arriving to camps already with 30% AS from the passive. I think with the extra cheap Tear this might stop being a troll build. I actually do wolves+blue+wraiths+golems, lvl 3 with one point in Bear, go back to base to pick up the Tear, and rush back to red buff spamming bear stance. Mid-game with full Tear, Strength of Spirit and lifesteal+spell vamp masteries you stay around the map forever. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On January 09 2013 19:23 unjugon wrote: I have been trying a Tear of the Goddess rush with decent success. Everybody talks about movement speed on Udyr but noone mentions bear spamming to accomplish the same thing but better. Honestly, if we are ok with going 21 in utility for the move speed, why not get the Strength of Spirit masteries and grab the Tear? And since he fills the Tear so fast, we can overcome some of the squishyness coming from utility masteries etc with the Seraph´s Embrace shield. For sure it sounds awkward and I am still testing stuff. Upgrading to Manamune kinda doesn´t work because you are just squishy all-around. Rushing Archangel´s after Tear+Mercury Treads is a possibility I still haven´t crossed out. This gives close to 110 AP and people really do not see the damage from Phoenix coming. However, if going the Seraph´s Embrace path, I would go 15/0/15 masteries. This allows you to grab both types of penetrations and Spellsword masteries in the offense tree, and up to Strength of Spirit in the utility tree. For the rest of the build, I am testing something like Spirit Visage+Iceborn and sometimes even the new Rageblade. This might not be the tanky Udyr we have come to apprecciate and shouldn´t go in first, but can still take a couple hits and is I feel much more dangerous. Grabbing the early Tear you basically notice little difference in clear times compared to Spirit Stone, due to arriving to camps already with 30% AS from the passive. I think with the extra cheap Tear this might stop being a troll build. I actually do wolves+blue+wraiths+golems, lvl 3 with one point in Bear, go back to base to pick up the Tear, and rush back to red buff spamming bear stance. Mid-game with full Tear, Strength of Spirit and lifesteal+spell vamp masteries you stay around the map forever. with a regular build after you get your stances up in ranks(since it lowers the mana costs) you can stay on the map forever, like 1-2 hits in turtle will replenish all your mana basically. and you can build tanky or get a wits and still do more damage than with a seraphs | ||
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unjugon
Spain119 Posts
"Or you can build tanky". With Tear you can potentially do both. I am not sure I understand this negative stigma the 700-gold-Tear has on Udyr. | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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unjugon
Spain119 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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unjugon
Spain119 Posts
On another note, if the latest changes to Twin Shadows on PBE (loses 10 AP but gains 10 MR and 1% move speed) come to live, along with the extra resistances from the passive, this item could really become core on Udyr. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23401 Posts
On January 09 2013 23:56 koreasilver wrote: 700 gold is a huge deal on any jungler. And realistically, there is no scenario where you'll actually use both pheonix and tiger in teamfights. this isn't true but already bear stance at early ranks basically is pretty meh in terms of movement speed and the point of utility and super boots is that not only do you have the speed for roaming you have extra speed closing the gap WITH bear stance in ganks. You kinda have to buy machete already, so it's only 500 for spirit stone which I'm pretty sure is more efficient for clearing than tears even arriving at camps with the 30% attack speed. It also efficiently upgrades to spirit of the ancient golem while tears doesn't give any cost efficient upgrade. It's an interesting idea, but I'd say not optimal, kinda the same with tears on all the other junglers honestly. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
I don't think Seraph is worth it just for the active. I also don't think you should spend so much on 1500 mana on Udyr. Even if he does have problems with mana during laning, by your playstyle, I think they go away when teamfights start. Also tear takes ridiculously long to charge on anyone. An udyr spamming spells with tear will have more mana problems than one that doesn't spam spells without tear. It sounds like you're just picking a bunch of items because they've changed or they're new. | ||
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unjugon
Spain119 Posts
Tear is charged by like 15 minutes. Another question is whether Seraph´s is worth 2000 gold. STILL, I am arguing than even getting the Tear and sitting on it for the whole game can be more efficient than getting Spirit Stone, especially, yes, for spamming bear stance mid game and having the passive bonus (soon to be bonuses) maxed all the time. And especially, to be fair, if you don´t plan to upgrade to Spirit of the A. Golem till late. Is Seraph´s worth 2000 gold? You get like 60 extra HP shield with turtle, significant increase in damage with phoenix (especially mid game when there is little magic resist), and the active shield of like 500 HP. It might not be worth it, but it would be silly to write it off completely. It sounds like you are only talking without doing the required background homework. Nothing was invented with this attitude. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:47 unjugon wrote: I used to get Tear on Udyr back when it cost like 990 gold. Now it is definitely better since you can basically use like 75% of your time with the first blue buff to fill up the Tear. With this in mind, you definitely don´t have more mana problems spamming bear with Tear than not doing it without it. Tear is charged by like 15 minutes. Another question is whether Seraph´s is worth 2000 gold. STILL, I am arguing than even getting the Tear and sitting on it for the whole game can be more efficient than getting Spirit Stone, especially, yes, for spamming bear stance mid game and having the passive bonus (soon to be bonuses) maxed all the time. And especially, to be fair, if you don´t plan to upgrade to Spirit of the A. Golem till late. Is Seraph´s worth 2000 gold? You get like 60 extra HP shield with turtle, significant increase in damage with phoenix (especially mid game when there is little magic resist), and the active shield of like 500 HP. It might not be worth it, but it would be silly to write it off completely. It sounds like you are only talking without doing the required background homework. Nothing was invented with this attitude. That's a late first blue buff. I think most people start blue to be able to spam more and so their opponent doesn't steal theirs. Often when I see the enemy jungler top, I'll check if they got blue, then I'll go to their blue bot if I don't see a good gank. | ||
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unjugon
Spain119 Posts
I go 9/21/0 masteries with armor pen on offense and reduced slows and extra tenacity from the defense one. For items I go something like boots of swiftness/Tabi, Mallet, Zephyr, Warmog´s, Visage, and Blade of the ruined king (BorK), starting with boots+Stinger+Phage and going from there. This works ala Olaf, running to their carry and doing surprising damage. Another offensive build I want to try, a bit heavier on resistances and less on move speed: Treads, Randuin´s, Guinsoo´s, Warmog´s, Visage, and BorK. The problem with this one is the the build up is less smooth, whereas Stinger+Phage feels solid at all points of the early/mid game. It´s hard to find a balance when incorporating boots of switfness+Zephyr into a build, but it might just be worth it. Any of you guys tried it? | ||
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unjugon
Spain119 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Why no boots? That's silly, esp. with Bear stance. | ||
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unjugon
Spain119 Posts
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LazyFailKid
Canada750 Posts
Also i'm pretty sure no boots will never catch up to boots 2 pretty much no matter the situation, so if your cheap about boots just get tabi. | ||
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unjugon
Spain119 Posts
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