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In the end, AP sion is playable at any level. He may not be top knotch amazing pick no.1, but he's playable. AD sion on the other hand makes the team counter him (possible in a lot of ways, but still they have to do it). AD sion can be strong, but only if the other team makes the mistake of not doing anything to stop that.
I've been running jungle sion since I was first able to, tried out a fair few combos with him, and personally ended up with the following:
Runes: (Clear time: 4:35)
Quints - 2x Move Speed, 1x Health
Red - 9x ArmorPen
Yellow - 9x Armor
Blue - Flat MR, MR/L, attack speed, up to you.
Speed Runes: (Clear time: 4:20)
Quints - 2x ArmorPen, 1x Flat AD
Red - 5x Flat AD, 4x ArmorPen
Yellow - 9x Armor
Blue - 9x AS
Masteries: 20/0/10 (those buff durations are too sexy to pass up)
Summoners: Ghost/Smite. Personally I run Ghost on both AD and AP Sion, find the positioning a lot more useful over the duration of a whole fight compared to just one flash for an initial stun. Both have their positives, but for AD jungle Sion, definately ghost.
Route: Golems > Wraiths > Wolves > Blue - B (boots+ward) > Red
Skill order: W > E > E > Q
The mana buff helped him by letting him get another shield off in his first run combo, allowing you to take 2hp+ward+cloth if you really wanted to and survive blue still. It's a trade off though because you end up a lot more easily ganked on blue if you go like this, but 5hp+cloth gives you basically full health the whole route.
Generally I build him:
Cloth +5 HP > Boots +ward > Lantern > Lvl 2 boots (almost always Mercs) > Zeal > Phantom > Phage > Zeal > TF > BV. Sounds stupidly counterintuitive stacking attack speed so much and it's actually worse DPS than going for a IE or Black Cleaver, but the zeals come early. And the movement speed is AMAZING. As I said before and as has been said a hundred times in this thread, kiting him is the worst thing ever. Ghost obviously helps, but phantom on Sion with phage is just so good for keeping someone near you to life steal from during your ulti time... If I'm having trouble with getting AP nuked (more common than AD nuked obviously, but the armor seals and lantern usually help with this enough) I'll usually get an early Negatron, or if it's a lot of CC as well as AP heavy then QSS.
Sion isn't a strong early game hero. He can be given jungle farm, gank an overextended lane, provide 'some' map control, and is hard to gank post-6, plus the idea of a roaming stunner is always scary for the other team, but ultimately he doesn't have a specific strength. There are better gankers, there are better map controllers, there are better farmers. If you're looking for an AD bruiser or late game carry, there are other choices that can use jungle better. That said, a late game AD Sion can definately bring the hurt against a whole team very decently even if not 'fed' from earlier. He isn't an engager, but he definately can not be ignored in a team fight. This is a positive thing if you have a hard carry on your team that you can peel for, stun for, and just generally chew up the agro from the fact you are unbelievably hard to take down while your ulti and ghost are up.
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I don't care how good the buff duration is, 4% more damage all game long>buff duration.
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yea it's pretty stupid to pass up the 4% more damage.
if you do that, then you should at least take some more points from offense and add more to utility, improved move speed is probably worth more than improved crit damage
I don't get your route either, starting blue is much better generally if you can afford it. And sion definitely can. With your route your team gets its second blue much later, which can lead to a disadvantage.
you don't need flat AD at all because of your E. You should switch the flat AD runes with arpen. Start with E and not shield if you want speed.
When I do my blue -----> double golems route I generally finish quite fast , under 3:50, with a lot of hp.
His passive on averages blocks 12 damage of every autoattack he gets, that's huge.
He is real fun 1 v 5 hero in stomp games.
Ghostblade is really strong on him. Also this guy can easily solo dragon at lvl 6. And faster than others.
I didn't want come off as condescending or anything, these are just my opinions.
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I have been doing alot of ad jungle sion lately as well. My runes are similar to all of yours besides my quints being attack speed. I have been going straight for vamp scepter instead of the cloth armor+pots and doing a wolves-wraiths-golems-b-blue to golems route.
Ad sion is also my favorite dominion champ. Able to go beastmode fairly often and I switched to cleanse exhaust lately just because if im not ccd im winning the fight basically.
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the problem with cleanse exhaust that you can't jungle with it and ad sion is weak in lane
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On October 18 2011 22:11 freelander wrote:
the problem with cleanse exhaust that you can't jungle with it and ad sion is weak in lane
I said dominion.
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ive been a really casual player that just likes to try new champions and fool around against bots. but recently I have wanted to start playing specific characters and deviate from the suggested builds that they give you in game.
one question that I have is if my build that I recently made is viable at all against real players.
I usually go:
amplifying tome/health potion at beginning
->
mejai's soulstealer
sorcerers shoes
archangel's staff
robadon's deathcap
void staff
obviously this is basically a straight up AP build. would this work against real people or is it beyond retarded? also, does the magic penetration stack from the void staff and the sorcerers shoes?
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Usually with Sion I want a Deathcap ASAP. Manamune is also a fun item for him. Why would you go Soulstealer first?
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well my thought process behind going soulstealer first is that it is relatively cheap (after I use up my first 475 on the amplifying tome, its only 800 to upgrade to the soulstealer), and gives me time to build up some stacks over the course of the game...the sooner that the 15% cooldown reduction kicks in the better. 20x8+20=180 ability power if I can stack enough early
also, does anyone know if the 15% cooldown with the utility mastery point stacks with the items you get in game?
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On November 10 2011 04:41 ishboh wrote:
ive been a really casual player that just likes to try new champions and fool around against bots. but recently I have wanted to start playing specific characters and deviate from the suggested builds that they give you in game.
one question that I have is if my build that I recently made is viable at all against real players.
I usually go:
amplifying tome/health potion at beginning
->
mejai's soulstealer
sorcerers shoes
archangel's staff
robadon's deathcap
void staff
obviously this is basically a straight up AP build. would this work against real people or is it beyond retarded? also, does the magic penetration stack from the void staff and the sorcerers shoes?
typically deathcap is before AA, most ppl dont go soulstealer, but w/e, its up to you. Sorc shoes and void sorta kinda stack, but the %pen on void comes before the flat pen on sorcs. Also ppl usually get a lichbane somewhere in there, or optionally a dfg, basically just as a 3rd nuke.
edit: i think the 15% pen on masteries does indeed stack with the %pen on voidstaff. reduction is applied first, then % pen, then flat pen (i think)
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On November 10 2011 04:41 ishboh wrote:
ive been a really casual player that just likes to try new champions and fool around against bots. but recently I have wanted to start playing specific characters and deviate from the suggested builds that they give you in game.
one question that I have is if my build that I recently made is viable at all against real players.
I usually go:
amplifying tome/health potion at beginning
->
mejai's soulstealer
sorcerers shoes
archangel's staff
robadon's deathcap
void staff
obviously this is basically a straight up AP build. would this work against real people or is it beyond retarded? also, does the magic penetration stack from the void staff and the sorcerers shoes?
It's an okay build, just very sub-optimal. You really don't want archangels on sion.
My usual sion build:
boots+3 pots into dorans ring+deathcap is pretty much the only core. Next follow up items are:
void staff
dfg
lichbane
qss
Depending on the situation/champs.
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thanks for the input guys
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I rush boots of mob and then gank until i can get deathcap. works pretty well.
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On November 10 2011 04:41 ishboh wrote:
ive been a really casual player that just likes to try new champions and fool around against bots. but recently I have wanted to start playing specific characters and deviate from the suggested builds that they give you in game.
one question that I have is if my build that I recently made is viable at all against real players.
I usually go:
amplifying tome/health potion at beginning
->
mejai's soulstealer
sorcerers shoes
archangel's staff
robadon's deathcap
void staff
obviously this is basically a straight up AP build. would this work against real people or is it beyond retarded? also, does the magic penetration stack from the void staff and the sorcerers shoes?
You're relying on not dying AND getting kills with effectively no items for your first 1235 gold except for 20 AP (barely more than what you get from dorans, but without health & mp5) and 1 potion. Not viable vs real players, because you can't guarantee that you're better than they are.
There may be times that you may decide that you can pick up a soulstealer, but often times, if you're doing really well early, putting a similar amount of money into a Needlessly Large Rod to rush your deathcap will actually help you snowball harder (because you have more power when you buy the item), with less risk of your snowballing getting interrupted by dying, or shut down late game if/when the enemy team finally takes you down. Don't underestimate the snowball potential of Doran's into Deathcap rush, just because it doesn't have snowball items in it doesnt mean it's not a build designed to snowball.
Remember that a mejais is a giant goldsink until you get ~6-8 stacks in it, when it catches up to NLR in cost-efficiency. It doesn't catch up to deathcap til even later.
And 15% CDR shouldn't be that important to you, blue buff is your friend!!
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Why is no one just flat out telling this guy that Archangel's staff is bad on Sion? =\ I am disappoint.
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Archangel's staff is bad on sion
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so, was sion always so popular or is he just majorly the fotm right now?
i never saw him banned before or even played much. now he's banned/played almost every game and owns my teams an awful lot lulz
and frankly he's terrifying
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Sion's always been pretty good, but a few patches ago he got some gigantic buffs (+55 Level 1 Mana / +300 level 18 Mana, +1.25 MR/Level, +5 Movement Speed) and he's become the same force he's always been but faster!
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On November 11 2011 04:41 Mogwai wrote:
Why is no one just flat out telling this guy that Archangel's staff is bad on Sion? =\ I am disappoint.
Cause someone already said AA staff is terrible on sion.
It's terrible on a lot of casters. Dorans rings / runes can handle the mana requirements of anyone except for a few GIGANTIC MANA WHORES. Blue buff allows most casters except the aforementioned whores to spam all their skills forever. Sion has somewhat long CDs and not the most expensive spells, he's in this category. Don't get a tear. It will take him FOREVER to fill it, even longer of a forever if you don't stun a something on CD every CD (which you won't, cause then you'll get rolled for always having your stun on CD)
Even on champs that like tear and build it early, AA staff isn't generally a good first AP item.
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On November 11 2011 07:15 Niton wrote:
Sion's always been pretty good, but a few patches ago he got some gigantic buffs (+55 Level 1 Mana / +300 level 18 Mana, +1.25 MR/Level, +5 Movement Speed) and he's become the same force he's always been but faster!
I think it's also cause people started putting Sion mid as opposed to top where a good amount of bruisers just completely poop on him whereas Sion can beat a lot of APs
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EPT
