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On August 03 2012 02:34 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 02:11 barbsq wrote:On August 03 2012 01:57 nosliw wrote:
nunu vs zyra? Nom plants and EQ to win mid lane? dunno, again, I watched smash on this one (so he prob has a better answer), but it looked like the slow on the melee plants + some misjudgment of zyra's damage looked like a real problem. Plus it's very easy for zyra to put up 2 plants at any given time, and I think noms don't actually kill the plants in 1 go (at least early on). noms always take 2 bars from zyra's plants, so you still need to attack to kill them. BBing yourself and running around like an idiot made the matchup really easy, but when I tried to just trade and eat her damage, I ended up behind. It is really easy to dodge all her shit if your BBed though, so once I figured that out, it was EZPZ.
I get the impression that BB is actually best vs champs that work at range. Just having a billion movespeed and running around in circles, punching ppl actually makes it challenging to hit nunu.
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On August 03 2012 02:42 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 02:34 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2012 02:11 barbsq wrote:On August 03 2012 01:57 nosliw wrote:
nunu vs zyra? Nom plants and EQ to win mid lane? dunno, again, I watched smash on this one (so he prob has a better answer), but it looked like the slow on the melee plants + some misjudgment of zyra's damage looked like a real problem. Plus it's very easy for zyra to put up 2 plants at any given time, and I think noms don't actually kill the plants in 1 go (at least early on). noms always take 2 bars from zyra's plants, so you still need to attack to kill them. BBing yourself and running around like an idiot made the matchup really easy, but when I tried to just trade and eat her damage, I ended up behind. It is really easy to dodge all her shit if your BBed though, so once I figured that out, it was EZPZ. I get the impression that BB is actually best vs champs that work at range. Just having a billion movespeed and running around in circles, punching ppl actually makes it challenging to hit nunu.
Well, that and skillshots in general. Your "sprint speed" should make it all but impossible for her to hit you with anything but plants and maybe the first portion of her ult. Same goes for any other skillshot-focused champ.
Should make him decent vs Kennen, I guess. You should never get stunned unless he blows ult, dodge shuriken and slow/run from ball of cocaine.
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On August 03 2012 02:34 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 02:11 barbsq wrote:On August 03 2012 01:57 nosliw wrote:
nunu vs zyra? Nom plants and EQ to win mid lane? dunno, again, I watched smash on this one (so he prob has a better answer), but it looked like the slow on the melee plants + some misjudgment of zyra's damage looked like a real problem. Plus it's very easy for zyra to put up 2 plants at any given time, and I think noms don't actually kill the plants in 1 go (at least early on). noms always take 2 bars from zyra's plants, so you still need to attack to kill them. BBing yourself and running around like an idiot made the matchup really easy, but when I tried to just trade and eat her damage, I ended up behind. It is really easy to dodge all her shit if your BBed though, so once I figured that out, it was EZPZ.
Once people start taking more move speed against Zyra, I'm sure they'll complain less. She's all skill shots (granted her ult radius is a bit too big), and it's a real pain in the ass trying to hit fast targets. If you get rooted, you take a ton of damage, but the exact same goes for shit like Morg and Ahri.
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On August 03 2012 02:54 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 02:34 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2012 02:11 barbsq wrote:On August 03 2012 01:57 nosliw wrote:
nunu vs zyra? Nom plants and EQ to win mid lane? dunno, again, I watched smash on this one (so he prob has a better answer), but it looked like the slow on the melee plants + some misjudgment of zyra's damage looked like a real problem. Plus it's very easy for zyra to put up 2 plants at any given time, and I think noms don't actually kill the plants in 1 go (at least early on). noms always take 2 bars from zyra's plants, so you still need to attack to kill them. BBing yourself and running around like an idiot made the matchup really easy, but when I tried to just trade and eat her damage, I ended up behind. It is really easy to dodge all her shit if your BBed though, so once I figured that out, it was EZPZ. Once people start taking more move speed against Zyra, I'm sure they'll complain less. She's all skill shots (granted her ult radius is a bit too big), and it's a real pain in the ass trying to hit fast targets. If you get rooted, you take a ton of damage, but the exact same goes for shit like Morg and Ahri.
Not that this is the thread to talk about it, but I think the best counter to Zyra will be getting in her face after dodging E and Q. If all you're taking is plant damage, you should be able to out-trade her. Going off of your examples, you can't get close to Morg because of her ult and Black Shield, and Ahri will just dash away and use Fox Fire to murder you. Zyra's lack of natural defenses leave her as one of the more open AP mids if you can get close, imo.
On topic, this should actually make Nunu mid a decent counter to her, at least. Any time she gets too far forward, BB to dodge everything and then Snowball her to death. Ulting will make her blow her flash or force out her own ult, which you should be able to tank with Merc's/Chalice no problem.
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Eh, are you sure that taking only plant damage lets you out-trade her?
If her plants are behind you, you'll take considerable damage once she decides to pull back and you need to walk past the plants again. If they are in front of you, you'll take considerable damage just walking to her (...and then they'll be behind you). Killing them first gives her enough time to avoid more than one snowball. She also never *needs* to come into range if she's behind and just wants to cs.
I actually played Nunu vs Zyra yesterday. It worked better than I thought (bloodboil really does help), and I wouldn't mind playing that lane again, but it was nowhere as easy as many other lanes are (e.g. Kennen), and she's bursty enough to kill you if you do mess up.
I just don't see how you will "snowball her to death" in mid lane. She can harrass you from a much greater range thanks to plants, her cooldowns aren't very long, and her tower isn't that far if she does need to retreat. You can slowly outharrass her, but I'd not really say she's particularly vulnerable to Nunu.
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On August 03 2012 03:16 bmn wrote:
Eh, are you sure that taking only plant damage lets you out-trade her?
If her plants are behind you, you'll take considerable damage once she decides to pull back and you need to walk past the plants again. If they are in front of you, you'll take considerable damage just walking to her (...and then they'll be behind you). Killing them first gives her enough time to avoid more than one snowball. She also never *needs* to come into range if she's behind and just wants to cs.
I actually played Nunu vs Zyra yesterday. It worked better than I thought (bloodboil really does help), and I wouldn't mind playing that lane again, but it was nowhere as easy as many other lanes are (e.g. Kennen), and she's bursty enough to kill you if you do mess up.
I just don't see how you will "snowball her to death" in mid lane. She can harrass you from a much greater range thanks to plants, her cooldowns aren't very long, and her tower isn't that far if she does need to retreat. You can slowly outharrass her, but I'd not really say she's particularly vulnerable to Nunu.
Well, if you are dodging all her spells with BB, and only end up taking plant damage, I would think you could get near enough to punish her missing with snowballs, and you can consume to heal back the damage from plants. I haven't played the lane personally, but Zyra is very punishable, you just need to trade intelligently, which the vast majority of people have yet to really learn.
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While you are taking a lot of hits from the plants, they're basically health vending machines for your Consume. You're not going to instanom them, but the heal (especially once you get Revolver) should allow you to more or less ignore their damage. And again, the plants are magic damage, so stacking some MR (Chalice, Merc Treads, maybe defensive tree if you really want) makes them much less scary.
It's not easy, I'm sure, and if you get rooted bad things will happen, but he's probably one of the better champions against her at the moment.
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I mean, a lot of what happened when I figured the matchup out involved punching her in the face with my mighty yeti paws. Enough matchups are turning out like this that I find myself contemplating split pen Marks.
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Do you just do that in the first few levels or do you keep punching people while trading after level ~6 or so?
I'm always worried that my AD doesn't scale well enough to risk eating an additional spell especially after people get their ultimate and have a lot more burst.
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On August 03 2012 03:42 Mogwai wrote:
I mean, a lot of what happened when I figured the matchup out involved punching her in the face with my mighty yeti paws. Enough matchups are turning out like this that I find myself contemplating split pen Marks.
You don't really itemize ad, so hybrids don't feel as good as compared to, say, jungle cow. Nunu also does so much dmg he scales much harder on mpen.
Also, don't try punching Darius
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On August 03 2012 04:49 bmn wrote:
Do you just do that in the first few levels or do you keep punching people while trading after level ~6 or so?
I'm always worried that my AD doesn't scale well enough to risk eating an additional spell especially after people get their ultimate and have a lot more burst.
Smash is a real man. Punch EVERYTHING at EVERYTIME. this is why he plays JARMAN da 4th, and MANTHEON. Smash's ability to punch anyone in the face, at any time makes him #1 MAN.
In all seriousness, yeti arms pretty stronk w/ blood boil. Also even post 6, your consume should still out heal the dmg she can do to you after you punch her a couple times in the face
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On August 03 2012 04:55 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 03:42 Mogwai wrote:
I mean, a lot of what happened when I figured the matchup out involved punching her in the face with my mighty yeti paws. Enough matchups are turning out like this that I find myself contemplating split pen Marks. You don't really itemize ad, so hybrids don't feel as good as compared to, say, jungle cow. Nunu also does so much dmg he scales much harder on mpen. Also, don't try punching Darius
Jungle Cow should use AS like everyone else because AS is king.
And like, are you really going to miss 3.42 MPen enough to pass up on 9 ArPen? idk, the more I think about it, the more I think I should be running split pen reds.
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On August 03 2012 05:09 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 04:55 101toss wrote:On August 03 2012 03:42 Mogwai wrote:
I mean, a lot of what happened when I figured the matchup out involved punching her in the face with my mighty yeti paws. Enough matchups are turning out like this that I find myself contemplating split pen Marks. You don't really itemize ad, so hybrids don't feel as good as compared to, say, jungle cow. Nunu also does so much dmg he scales much harder on mpen. Also, don't try punching Darius Jungle Cow should use AS like everyone else because AS is king. And like, are you really going to miss 3.42 MPen enough to pass up on 9 ArPen? idk, the more I think about it, the more I think I should be running split pen reds.
Hybrid runes too expensive, need to spend IP on champs.
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Just tried it vs an Irelia. Poor thing just hid in bush to try and get her xp. Then Lee Sin ganked her and her tower was gone at 7 minutes.
How is this even fair?
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On August 03 2012 05:09 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 05:09 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2012 04:55 101toss wrote:On August 03 2012 03:42 Mogwai wrote:
I mean, a lot of what happened when I figured the matchup out involved punching her in the face with my mighty yeti paws. Enough matchups are turning out like this that I find myself contemplating split pen Marks. You don't really itemize ad, so hybrids don't feel as good as compared to, say, jungle cow. Nunu also does so much dmg he scales much harder on mpen. Also, don't try punching Darius Jungle Cow should use AS like everyone else because AS is king. And like, are you really going to miss 3.42 MPen enough to pass up on 9 ArPen? idk, the more I think about it, the more I think I should be running split pen reds. Hybrid runes too expensive, need to spend IP on champs.
I already have them though, sup wit it?
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On August 03 2012 05:12 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 05:09 Requizen wrote:On August 03 2012 05:09 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2012 04:55 101toss wrote:On August 03 2012 03:42 Mogwai wrote:
I mean, a lot of what happened when I figured the matchup out involved punching her in the face with my mighty yeti paws. Enough matchups are turning out like this that I find myself contemplating split pen Marks. You don't really itemize ad, so hybrids don't feel as good as compared to, say, jungle cow. Nunu also does so much dmg he scales much harder on mpen. Also, don't try punching Darius Jungle Cow should use AS like everyone else because AS is king. And like, are you really going to miss 3.42 MPen enough to pass up on 9 ArPen? idk, the more I think about it, the more I think I should be running split pen reds. Hybrid runes too expensive, need to spend IP on champs. I already have them though, sup wit it?
Psh, flash your fat stacks of IP cash more, why don't you.
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I see everyone here saying he works great vs Darius... But I have faced 2 and just got tooled on. I feel like trading ice balls 24/7 works great early but he just gets to the point where he QEautoW ignite bursts you down and if you dont have flash and consume up you fucked.
amidoinitwrong
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On August 03 2012 05:15 Bladeorade wrote:
I see everyone here saying he works great vs Darius... But I have faced 2 and just got tooled on. I feel like trading ice balls 24/7 works great early but he just gets to the point where he QEautoW ignite bursts you down and if you dont have flash and consume up you fucked.
amidoinitwrong
Yes, you're getting close enough for him to use his abilities on you. Snowball, run, and laugh. Works best with Nunu Bot.
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Default Nunu laugh is top tier, I dunno what the Nunu Bot boner is all about.
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On August 03 2012 05:18 Mogwai wrote:
Default Nunu laugh is top tier, I dunno what the Nunu Bot boner is all about.
Are you freakin kiddin me?!
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EPT
