EPTI had noticed this during testing but this pic somebody made sums it up nicely.
Ganking is not going to be insanely easy for her...best route seems to be coming through lane.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3KcHm.jpg)
[Champion] Evelynn - Page 7
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
I had noticed this during testing but this pic somebody made sums it up nicely. Ganking is not going to be insanely easy for her...best route seems to be coming through lane. | ||
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nosliw
United States2716 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On July 20 2012 08:50 nosliw wrote: wait, so you basically have to do lane bush gank or river bush gank, and cannot do tri bush gank? Basically, yeah. You can tribrush gank but they'll see it coming earlier than before. I'd like to start up some discussion on how she should be played now that the patch has dropped so I welcome opinions and discussion here. I've tried a LOT of stuff myself and...well I'll hold off on my thoughts until later I guess. | ||
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LazyFailKid
Canada750 Posts
Right now I'm doing some retarded regrowth+pot into sheen+malady+trinity+rageblade into whatever I feel like getting and boots added sometime and I was just wondering if there was a better build out there. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On July 20 2012 12:18 LazyFailKid wrote: So what have you guys found to be a good build for evelynn? Right now I'm doing some retarded regrowth+pot into sheen+malady+trinity+rageblade into whatever I feel like getting and boots added sometime and I was just wondering if there was a better build out there. I have some ideas about what to build on Eve, but they could use some playtesting to see if any of them make sense. Firstly, Eve benefits both from AP (Q,E,R scaling) and AD (Q,E scaling and E gives her an AS steroid), so hybrid items like Gunblade and Triforce might be good. Triforce is more focused towards an AD build, Gunblade's active is all-around great for its slow but all that spell vamp favors more bursty AP builds. Her ult can give her a stupid strong damage shield, which means that as far as defensive stats go she should favor armor and mres over health- Abyssal Scepter, Maw of Malmortius, Frozen Heart and so on. As an assassin, damage items in general should be a safe bet. Anything from Deathfire Grasp to Deathcap to Bloodthirster to IE can make sense. I'd stay away from stuff like Malady and Wit's End because they have very bad synergy with other damage items, and thus make more sense on champions that you want to build more tanky. I'm not personally a fan of Rageblade, but it might be good on Eve. Finally, never ever get flat armor pen on Eve. All her skills deal magical damage, even the ones that have AD scaling, so you're better off getting flat AD marks for instance over ArPen marks. I could see AD Eve going for a Last Whisper against a team stacking armor, but flat armor pen looks really bad for her. | ||
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Mr.Faces
United States121 Posts
Does anyone else find her new 'self' way too different? It just doesn't feel like eve anymore... /rant | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
I like to run my Armor Red/Yellow, MR LvL blues and MR quint page for max mixed stats as her ult really benefits from the resistances. Also Armor red and yellows help her take less damage in jungle as she already clears quickly. I run 9/21/0 with the AS/ARP in Off and the usuall defensive tree. I would be willing to write a full guide for her after I play her for a couple more days. | ||
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HAL9OOO
United States176 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
It's honestly very sad because of how much work Riot put into her to update her abilities and such, but as of now she is unusable at any decent level of play. My reasoning however is very different from the badwagon all other "WTF EVE STILL SUCKS OMG" rants; it is not her current kit that makes her terrible currently, nor was it her kit that made her terrible before the remake. It's pretty simple: base stats. Eve's base stats are STILL among the absolute worst in the game for a melee champion. They were NOT updated along with her remake like they were for Twitch. She has the highest attack speed in the game currently, but that's about it. She has 16.5 armor at level 1, where most junglers have 20+. Hell, even AD carries start with more armor than her. The melee champion who starts off with worse stats than her is Nidalee, who isn't even a melee champ 'till level 6, at which point she gets BONUS armor from her ult passive. She has absolutely pitiful base health and mana values for a jungler, and while these do increase at a faster rate than many other champions, it's her early game that suffers which crippled her before, and still does. Because of her lack of base stats, she is completely unable to gank well, or counterjungle. She clears insanely fast as a result of her kit, but she can do basically nothing else. Almost any other jungler save Shyvana offers a better gank in terms of cc or damage and even Shyvana has a self speed boost and beastly base stats for 1v1 exchanges. Eve has none of this. For this very same reason she can't lane very well either (Probably better than she used to because she can attempt to last hit with Hate Spike and harass at the same time, but she is basically unable to exchange 1v1 and may in fact be even worse at it due to lack of old Ravage's armor/MR shred). For those people saying "BUT LOLZ EVERYONE CAN SEE ME WHEN I GANK," I say, you're doing it wrong. Evelynn's stealth and kit are actually very strong (and even possibly OP where her ult is concerned) and if she had even a little bit of cc more than she does currently or higher base stats, people would be showing exactly how incorrect that way of thinking is. I won't get into detail on this matter because it isn't my point; suffice it to say if you treat Eve as a non-stealth champion as you play her in terms of when and where you think enemies can see you, you'll realize how strong her stealth actually has the potential to be. As far as I'm concerned, all the work that has been done to Eve to make her less toxic has succeeded and she will no longer be 'unfun' to play against at lower levels due to the removal of the old persistent stealth. Kudos to Riot for that. She still needs some help to bring her up to par, however, and her change in kit and the new stealth is not enough on its own, as Riot must have thought thus far concerning her numbers. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
I think Eve is too item dependent to jungle. She needs to lane. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
You win top lane in one of three ways. Out-trade your opponent in damage, out-sustain your opponent, or cry, beg, and pray for your jungler to out-gank your opponent. Other than number 3, Eve can't do anything in top lane. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
I've always jungled since I started playing LoL and I think Eve has all the tools of a decent jungler. I think the problem with why people don't realise shes legit now is because she has so many ways to go that it's not obvious which style is best. On July 20 2012 12:18 LazyFailKid wrote: This is pretty much what I do. Eve really screams "build trinity force on me", she benefits from everything and has a spammable ability to keep those sheen procs coming fast.So what have you guys found to be a good build for evelynn? Right now I'm doing some retarded regrowth+pot into sheen+malady+trinity+rageblade into whatever I feel like getting and boots added sometime and I was just wondering if there was a better build out there. However I don't like full damage builds on any jungler so I definitely wouldn't go as far as rageblade.I think you want to play Eve like a tanky bruiser now with some unique difference. I find you need to max Q first for fast jungling and that means mana issues so I start with regrowth pendant + hp -> philo stone -> boots -> trinity force -> hexdrinker..... then full tanky items. something like (guardians angel -> Shurelias etc..) edit: Heart of gold at some point-> Randuins seems like a good option too. This build gives you a really strong mid-game. With some AD and Q spam and her E she has massive burst; ganking at level 6-13ish is very fun and quite easy. Then in the late game it's all about initiation. Her Ulti is actually really really good, it's just like an old ranged Xin Zhao ult and the enemy can't even see where you are to dodge it! Once you get the shield jump on the AD, hit Shurelias to boost your teams speed and you set up a really strong fight. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On August 13 2012 03:24 Klive5ive wrote: Eve seems really legit to me now actually. I've always jungled since I started playing LoL and I think Eve has all the tools of a decent jungler. I think the problem with why people don't realise shes legit now is because she has so many ways to go that it's not obvious which style is best. This is pretty much what I do. Eve really screams "build trinity force on me", she benefits from everything and has a spammable ability to keep those sheen procs coming fast. I think Eve is a tanky bruiser now.. I find you need to max Q first for fast jungling and that means mana issues so I start with regrowth pendant + hp -> philo stone -> boots -> trinity force -> hexdrinker..... then full tanky items. something like (guardians angel -> Shurelias etc..) edit: Heart of gold at some point-> Randuins seems like a good option too. This build gives you a really strong mid-game. With some AD and Q spam and her E she has massive burst; ganking at level 6-13ish is very fun and quite easy. Then in the late game it's all about initiation. Her Ulti is actually really really good, it's just like an old ranged Xin Zhao ult and the enemy can't even see where you are to dodge it! Once you get the shield jump on the AD, hit Shurelias to boost your teams speed and you set up a really strong fight. The bolded section in my opinion is exactly her problem. She can't do a thing except jungle clear until 6, and even then her damage and gank is very weak with little to no AP. Building 2 gp5s like that on Eve is a death sentence if you run into the other jungler or if the person you're deciding to gank turns on you, considering how squishy and weak Eve is. Where are you going to get enough gold for a Trinity force and Hexdrinker for her 'massive burst' out of the jungle with weak ganking? Trinity force multiplies your base AD as its proc...you DO know Eve's base AD is among the weakest in the game, right? Just isn't feasible in my opinion. Now AP Eve is a different story and her popularity is growing. I may write a guide if the interest is there, but I find most people tend to ignore this thread so..... | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On August 13 2012 03:45 WaveofShadow wrote: The bolded section in my opinion is exactly her problem. She can't do a thing except jungle clear until 6, and even then her damage and gank is very weak with little to no AP. Building 2 gp5s like that on Eve is a death sentence if you run into the other jungler or if the person you're deciding to gank turns on you, considering how squishy and weak Eve is. Where are you going to get enough gold for a Trinity force and Hexdrinker for her 'massive burst' out of the jungle with weak ganking? Trinity force multiplies your base AD as its proc...you DO know Eve's base AD is among the weakest in the game, right? Just isn't feasible in my opinion. Now AP Eve is a different story and her popularity is growing. I may write a guide if the interest is there, but I find most people tend to ignore this thread so..... You can gank at level4 too. She's no worse than Skarner, Amumu or any other mana dependent jungler. You can still pull ganks off with boots and red buff. W is a good gap closer and they never see you coming. "squishy and weak" I disagree. She has really good burst damage. q spam and e does a lot of damage fast. Obviously you're not going to stand toe to toe with a mundo, but no-one is, you just hit W and run away. Base AD varies little among champions; that's a very bad reason not to get trinity force. She has higher AD than Ezreal which some people build TF on. Riot aren't stupid they probably realised that TF would be OP on a character with a very spammable Q so they gave her higher attack speed and lower base AD. It's still a great item on her. I don't think building AP on her makes any sense, this is why people still think Eve is gimmicky and bad Both Q and E scale from AP AND AD so you won't even do much more magic damage with AP. Plus you're bound to be more squishy with AP items which just isn't going to work late game. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On August 13 2012 04:16 Klive5ive wrote: You can gank at level4 too. She's no worse than Skarner, Amumu or any other mana dependent jungler. You can still pull ganks off with boots and red buff. W is a good gap closer and they never see you coming. "squishy and weak" I disagree. She has really good burst damage. q spam and e does a lot of damage fast. Obviously you're not going to stand toe to toe with a mundo, but no-one is, you just hit W and run away. Base AD varies little among champions; that's a very bad reason not to get trinity force. She has higher AD than Ezreal which some people build TF on. Riot aren't stupid they probably realised that TF would be OP on a character with a very spammable Q so they gave her higher attack speed and lower base AD. It's still a great item on her. I don't think building AP on her makes any sense, this is why people still think Eve is gimmicky and bad Both Q and E scale from AP AND AD so you won't even do much more magic damage with AP. Plus you're bound to be more squishy with AP items which just isn't going to work late game. She is no worse than Skarner or Amumu? I...I don't even know where to begin wtih that. LOOK AT THEIR STATS. LOOK AT THEIR KITS. Skarner has a perma-slow if you can get close enough that lets your whole team catch up to the target, plus a self-shield and speed boost BEFORE 6, PLUS is tanky as a motherfucker just based on base stats. Amumu has an insanely long range stun and gap closer, is insanely tanky and has a semi spammable low damage AoE early, and after 6 and gank from Amumu is basically a guaranteed kill. Evelynn has absolute SHIT for stats until she levels to like 14. Her Q/E spam do nothing for damage without AD or AP, and frankly, a Triforce doesn't offer her much in terms of raw damage. Evelynn is extremely gimmicky no matter how you play her. Her stealth my definition IS A GIMMICK. At least if you build her AP you can get the most damage out of her, especially since you factor in her ultimate into her burst with AP (no AD ratio on ult). I dunno dude, based on your arguments for her jungling I'm really not sure how much you've been playing or what skill level of opponents you're playing against, but if you're running Eve jungle you're just asking to be counterjungled and stomped into the ground early. I've argued so many times with so many people I'm getting weary to be honest. I'm sure there is no way to convince you of the errors in your thinking even with my argument above so I'm going to leave it here....arguing the issues about and glaring problems with one of my favourite champions in the game is bad for my blood pressure. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On August 13 2012 04:24 WaveofShadow wrote: She is no worse than Skarner or Amumu? I...I don't even know where to begin wtih that. LOOK AT THEIR STATS. LOOK AT THEIR KITS. Skarner has a perma-slow if you can get close enough that lets your whole team catch up to the target, plus a self-shield and speed boost BEFORE 6, PLUS is tanky as a motherfucker just based on base stats. Amumu has an insanely long range stun and gap closer, is insanely tanky and has a semi spammable low damage AoE early, and after 6 and gank from Amumu is basically a guaranteed kill. Evelynn has absolute SHIT for stats until she levels to like 14. Her Q/E spam do nothing for damage without AD or AP, and frankly, a Triforce doesn't offer her much in terms of raw damage. Evelynn is extremely gimmicky no matter how you play her. Her stealth my definition IS A GIMMICK. At least if you build her AP you can get the most damage out of her, especially since you factor in her ultimate into her burst with AP (no AD ratio on ult). I dunno dude, based on your arguments for her jungling I'm really not sure how much you've been playing or what skill level of opponents you're playing against, but if you're running Eve jungle you're just asking to be counterjungled and stomped into the ground early. I've argued so many times with so many people I'm getting weary to be honest. I'm sure there is no way to convince you of the errors in your thinking even with my argument above so I'm going to leave it here....arguing the issues about and glaring problems with one of my favourite champions in the game is bad for my blood pressure. Eve has a speed boost BEFORE 6, red buff is perma slow anyway and she does more damage with Q/E. Skarners E is pointless early. Don't get me wrong I like Skarner too... but how is that a worse lvl4 gank exactly? The AP ratio on her ult is TWICE as bad as the ratio on DFG. You're really clutching at straws if that's your reasoning for going AP. I think you just really want her to be gimmicky when she just isn't any more. If you want a character that brings it's own meta you'll have to play Shaco. Eve isn't like that anymore. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On August 13 2012 04:32 Klive5ive wrote: Eve has a speed boost BEFORE 6, red buff is perma slow anyway and she does more damage with Q/E. Skarners E is pointless early. Don't get me wrong I like Skarner too... but how is that a worse lvl4 gank exactly? The AP ratio on her ult is TWICE as bad as the ratio on DFG. You're really clutching at straws if that's your reasoning for going AP. I think you just really want her to be gimmicky when she just isn't any more. If you want a character that brings it's own meta you'll have to play Shaco. Eve isn't like that anymore. Two things. I didn't even mention Skarner's E in his jungling strengths. I don't jungle Eve as AP. I mid. Edit: You know what? Here's a third thing. The AP ratios on all her abilities are better than AD. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On August 13 2012 04:42 WaveofShadow wrote: Two things. I didn't even mention Skarner's E in his jungling strengths. I don't jungle Eve as AP. I mid. Edit: You know what? Here's a third thing. The AP ratios on all her abilities are better than AD. Well I don't think she's a viable AP mid, but imo she has a decent jungling kit. As for ratios you would expect AP to be more because it doesn't increase AA dmg. It's only slightly more. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
If I could figure out a build I liked I'd be pretty into her. She seems to be pretty much Yi in teamfights (not good at it), but Yi that can gank is, well, pretty good. Thinking something like going for a pile of midgame items, wriggles hex bruta phage aegis, then start upgrading to maw ghost mallet | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On August 13 2012 04:57 UniversalSnip wrote: Her ganks are pretty strong pre-6. Are you using W for your initial close or something? You shouldn't do that. If I could figure out a build I liked I'd be pretty into her. She seems to be pretty much Yi in teamfights (not good at it), but Yi that can gank is, well, pretty good. Thinking something like going for a pile of midgame items, wriggles hex bruta phage aegis, then start upgrading to maw ghost mallet Try my regrowth -> philostone opening similar to how many play Amumu/Skarner. I reckon you jungle faster with leveling Q first and mana regen than you do with wriggles and the gold/10 is always nice. Because she's hybridish I don't think you get so much out of the lifesteal part of the wriggles so drop that. The rest of your items look really solid though. It would be interesting to see your thoughts. I use 0/21/9 masteries. | ||
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