On November 23 2011 05:37 WaveofShadow wrote: Initial test: (super bored and sitting in class so it's all I've been able to do thus far) 9/21/0 With all relevant jungle masteries. 4 pts in attack speed,3 in armor, bladed armor, +30 hp, etc, extra minion dmg, initiator, etc. Runes - standard jungler fare - ArP quints, AS reds, armor yellow, Mres/lvl blue Cloth + 5. No leash. With just this simple start, Eve can ACTUALLY do a full clear without a leash! Considering this, I'm going to try and tweak it for speed and counterjungling and see what I can come up with. Options: Full 21/9/0? Maybe with real good leash, would make ganks even scarier. Smite/ignite or Smite/exhaust instead of flash? Debatable. Change out the Mres blue for extra AS/AP for faster creep killing? Boots or regrowth start is probably out of the question but I'm gonna try that too. Faster mobilities would be real nice (can't say I ever get philo on eve but whateva). So excited to use her again....
So.....she can pull off 21/9/0 with a good leash. Would probably do a little better if I had AS blues or something but I used Ap instead. Had to pause for a bit before red buff after twins to regain a little health from pots. I leveled QWQE because I figured I'd need extra Q damage to jungle properly but I could try without, putting an extra point in W. I think what it really comes down to is anyone can jungle now with a leash/new masteries....Eve still sucks, which sucks, but a stealth gank from the jungle is still really strong if you can make it work. I think ideally I'd still run full defense for initiator and a little more jungling safety. Gonna try some different routes out now....stupid Q makes her so mana hungry I don't see how she could start anywhere but blue, but we'll see. Also gonna try QWEW as leveling path, because W>E>Q on Eve.
Edit: Ugh...she sucks. More testing reveals you can't do anything at all without a blue start. Tried clearing small camps then blue, but without a leash she ends up so low she can't get anything done. Boots + cloth after small clear isn't worth it unless you want to try ganking without a buff. Gonna have to try her in a regular game now to see how her counterjungling goes....it seems she's still as kill-dependent as ever however.
Are you ganking at level 2? If not, why are you leveling W before E? The shred on E should help with bigger camps, and the burst from it on smaller camps.
On November 23 2011 14:40 sylverfyre wrote: Are you ganking at level 2? If not, why are you leveling W before E? The shred on E should help with bigger camps, and the burst from it on smaller camps.
Are you kidding? One E uses almost her entire mana pool at low levels, even with blue buff, it slows down her creep kill time significantly because you can't spam Q, you have to wait for 12 mana to regen from nothing once you spam it all out.
Try to get 7 or 9 utility with all the mana stuff into your setup. Blue buff regens a % of your max mana, so the increased manapool is even better. The early points are pretty strong in all mastery trees, so something like 9/12/9 should be good. 12 defense also happens to cover Indomitable, Veteran's Scars and Bladed Armor.
On November 23 2011 20:36 spinesheath wrote: Try to get 7 or 9 utility with all the mana stuff into your setup. Blue buff regens a % of your max mana, so the increased manapool is even better. The early points are pretty strong in all mastery trees, so something like 9/12/9 should be good. 12 defense also happens to cover Indomitable, Veteran's Scars and Bladed Armor.
Not really sure how the tradeoff is worth it. At early levels (where Eve mana is an issue) you're only going to have an extra total 70 or so mana at level 6 (and if you haven't gotten a kill or assist by then, chances are you're going to be behind anyway). The extra mp5 from blue buff with the extra mana amounts to about 2-3mp5 at level 6. An extra 6mp5 also doesn't help with Q spam much considering full spam costs about 60mp5. You're also losing a fair amount of survivability in Indomitable (assuming you want Summoner's resolve or Hardiness), Juggernaut, and Honor Guard (notwithstanding Initiator loss, an awesome mastery). The only real benefit I see from going into utility is improved buff duration which Eve really needs to be honest. All this change would serve to do imo is marginally speed up her jungle at the cost of finishing even lower than before, making ganking after camp clearing at any point early on even more difficult.
I dunno...I'll give it a try (I'll take Indomitable as well) but I'm probably going to stick with 9/21/0 just for safety's sake. It seems to be working out for me thus far. Surprisingly enough I haven't had anyone yell at me yet for picking her....we had triple stealth on our last team too....and won.
Her lategame is too weak now. At level 16 she used to be able to put a 2.5 second stun on two targets in teamfights, heal for 500 per assist, and have 100% AS steroid. Now it's no stun, shitty heal, shitty steroid.
On November 24 2011 01:58 rigwarl wrote: Her lategame is too weak now. At level 16 she used to be able to put a 2.5 second stun on two targets in teamfights, heal for 500 per assist, and have 100% AS steroid. Now it's no stun, shitty heal, shitty steroid.
She is weak, but I wouldn't say she's "too weak" in late game. She can still level almost any carry in a 1v1 fight, depending on how you play her. AP-eve can clear out any squishes in a 1v1 fight. AD-eve can clear out squishies in a 1v1 fight, but it'll be close. AD-eve has a lot more sustained damage, I like going youmou's ghostblade, it has amazing synergy with her ulti. I always find my self getting triple kills with AD-Eve, and doing more sustained damage. However once they start focusing you, AP eve is usually the better choice.
I also find that AD eve is better in the game right now, mostly because of how AD masteries are much better than the AP masteries.
Final test: 9/12/9 is absolute balls. Her only viable jungle routes/options seem to be 9/21/0 with Blue start, or some focus on counterjungling, though with everyone leashing these days and only a 10s stealth start, stealing an early blue is probably kinda difficult.
I read a post on the last page about regrowth+pot start to clear small camps, grab Philo and then clear buff camps, but honestly I call bullshit on that, especially with the 21/9/0 start he claimed. Philo would be a good idea on Eve and allows for an easy transition into your choice of assassin-style AP Eve or DPS AD Bruiser Eve, but when I tried small camp clears with cloth + pots and then attempted Blue without a leash I got fucked pretty hard by it and had to wait/bluepill before I could attempt anything else.
Bleh gonna try that one next.
I usually play an AP eve with 21-9-0 and jungle, if I get a leash for double golems and start with regrowth + health pot I can clear jungle and gank (to use up flash or occasionally a kill) before backing and getting philo stone and boots, head back to jungle, get blue, then red, and then gank bot usually for a kill. Clear rest of jungle and buy mejai's. From there only target people you know you can kill, and your Mejia's get so high as she has great escape unless she is CC by 2 or 3 champs.
Yeah unless I'm a big idiot or did something wrong, absolutely impossible. If you don't get a kill you will NOT have enough for philostone + boots, and you won't even have enough mana for a decent gank after clearing small camps. If you B after clearing small camps you won't have enough for philo unless you didn't buy the pot to start (which is ok with a good leash). Clearing blue solo without leash after clearing small camps almost killed me, same as earlier attempt. Way too slow, completely unviable. I guess I should have figured from 2nd-time poster, but I did want to cover all bases.
On November 24 2011 13:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Final test: 9/12/9 is absolute balls.
I'd like to know why. Too squishy for full clear?
I died at red. I think that could be rectified with a slightly better pull (also I may have taken a little too much damage at wolves or something...?) but overall 9/21/0 was better in terms of both speed and safety. The reasoning for 9/12/9 was supposedly being able to use E with the extra mana to clear camps faster, but like I thought, early levels that extra mana doesn't do anything really, while the extra survivability you lose impacts her hard. Overall opinions of jungle Eve: obviously every jungler is better than Eve at this point, but it somehow comforts me knowing I CAN jungle on her again if I want. Stealth ganks too stronk.
Hmm with new incoming buffs, Eve might be a solidly viable jungler again. But then again, with this buff, almost all champions will be viable junglers.
0 damage from minions, would this not maybe perhaps make evelynn viable top lane vs some champs at least? Just thinking about laning now, I mean lvl 1, 2 trades, if you take 0 damage from their minions would have to end in your favor no?
Imagine, a stealthed bruiser in lategame team fights that can get to your carries almost no matter what :D
Alright I guess I'll get it started: I have no idea what to do on this new jungle Eve. After having tried her out (Thanks Flaeyr for the help) with multiple item starts, masteries and runes, here are my conclusions: 1) I have no idea what her starting item should be. I don't think she should be building Wriggle's since she's mostly magic damage and it will be delaying her mobilities/Sheen too much so no Vamp, Cloth+5 or Longsword. She COULD start Philo but with her new passive she does not need the mana regen at all, so is it really worth it just for the gp5? Tried boots which seems a good choice and allows her to get core faster, but she is very fragile with a boots start. What do? (I tried Tome+1 for shits and even that worked, just barely)
2) I have no idea what runes to use. (Ok, I have some idea.) Armor yellows and Mr/lvl blues but as far as reds/quints are concerned, I dunno. MS is nice but with Mobilities, Dark Frenzy and MS masteries she will be above the diminishing return line so fast and so often is it really worth it? Since all her ability damage is magical do you bother with Mpen knowing no assistance with jungle clear time? Attack speed and physical damage seem like good choices because of AD ratios on both her Q and E...tried full AD quints/reds, worked pretty well. ArPen just for jungle and autoattacking?
3) I have no idea what masteries to use. 21 def is nice and helps her live for early ganks better with Red start but do you go 9 in offense or extra MS and buff duration in utility instead. And then do you put your points in the offensive tree into standard AD or AP side? Full AP Eve (21/0/9) had one of the fastest clear times but also one of the scariest in terms of almost dying. Maybe 21/9/0 with armor reds and yellows to compensate....
4) She clears pretty fast. Not a whole lot of difference in clear speed whether you start boots or Regrowth, didn't bother with cloth+5 because no Wriggle's, but the health you finish with is a big difference.
5) Skill order. Q at level 1, E at level two then you CAN gank. Better imo to grab level 3 for W but if you want to clear/farm more grab a second point in Q. After that I have no idea. Best burst comes from E by far, but if you're going to need to do a lot of chasing then Q might be better. My gut seems to be going with a couple points in Q early, max E first and then W second. That speed boost is monstrous even though you gimp her teamfighting by not maxing Q.
Thoughts from anyone? (Obviously this is all subject to change on release, but I wanted to get something out there before the pros go to work and see how my analysis is compared to theirs.)
AP and AD are both viable surprisingly. Really feels reminiscent of Eve when she first got popular. I prefer AP over AD because as an assassin, burst feel more natural.
Boots + 3 pots, you need a big leash on Blue. QEQWQR, R > Q > E > W. You can get 2-3 levels in W before maxing E. Revolver, Sheen feels pretty core for sustain and early burst.
On July 16 2012 13:53 NeoIllusions wrote: AP and AD are both viable surprisingly. Really feels reminiscent of Eve when she first got popular. I prefer AP over AD because as an assassin, burst feel more natural.
Boots + 3 pots, you need a big leash on Blue. QEQWQR, R > Q > E > W. You can get 2-3 levels in W before maxing E. Revolver, Sheen feels pretty core for sustain and early burst.
Hmm. If I'm really going to play her a lot I might adapt according to what I'm facing then. Bruiser AD Eve or Burst squishy AP Eve...gonna have to try them both anyway.
Do you not find though she's too squishy as an AP though? And if you're going to be bursting so much on her why max Q first when E is way higher burst (and gives that attack speed bonus)? I would honestly think maxing E first works better for both builds... I did try Revolver at one point and found the sustain wasn't particularly great...
Hmm...I also wonder if for AD (or hybrid?) build a Vamp scepter would work, building it into Cutlass instead of Wriggle's, then going Gunblade? Gunblade seems like an amazing item for her and would massively assist her ganks, though I'd have trouble building it as my first big item over Triforce.
A lot of these issues feel like the same ones I had when trying out early Skarner builds tbh...
I'm just gonna try doing my jax build on her & see how it goes. Open vamp->cutlass->triforce with a HoG early on cuz I go randuin's eventually. Rageblade could be pretty good on her too.
EPT
I wish she had a passive...
