|
On January 21 2013 23:41 czylu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 23:04 arb wrote:On January 21 2013 19:14 Blyf wrote:On January 21 2013 06:25 DEN1ED wrote:I love Scarras evelynn build. Spirit of Elder Lizard +sorc into full tank (warmogs, FH, bulwark). It's so fun and actually very strong. I used to hate playing eve but love it now. ' + Show Spoiler + But... You get Sorc boots and buy ad? Seems inefficient. And what's with the lizard passive on a burst champ like Eve? Again, seems inefficient. Had an Eve do it in a game yesterday, I cant understand how it even does damage honestly. Hate Spike does magic damage and scales off of AD. It's not that hard to understand how it works. Pen doesn't work off the AP or AD stat, it works off of the type of damage the specific attack deals.
+25 damage on hate spike into pure tank
120 + 25 before resistances.
|
On January 21 2013 19:14 Blyf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 06:25 DEN1ED wrote:I love Scarras evelynn build. Spirit of Elder Lizard +sorc into full tank (warmogs, FH, bulwark). It's so fun and actually very strong. I used to hate playing eve but love it now. ' + Show Spoiler + But... You get Sorc boots and buy ad? Seems inefficient. And what's with the lizard passive on a burst champ like Eve? Again, seems inefficient.
Yes, your abilities scale off both AD or AP but do magic damage regardless so Sorc boots. Who says Eve HAS to be played as a burst champ? This build makes her a very good bruiser which is good now with so many assassins running around. How exactly is AD, CDR, and true damage to everyone hit by your q inefficient? It is actually EXTREMELY efficient.
|
Remember when 5 Sunfire Evelynn was popular? Same principle, using her reasonable base damages, low cooldowns, and natural mobility to perform effectively as a tank. Lizard Elder does true damage and slows, making it ideal for this sort of semi-tank.
|
5 sunfires eve was funny cause you burnt fools to death without being visible. Spirit of the elder lizard doesn't slow, but it gives cdr and that is very good if you're relying on base damage. Sunfire + elderlizard is alot of aoe dot thanks to hate spikes
|
Lizard spirit doesn't slow.
|
So I have been playing a lot of jungle Eve lately. It seems very good in the lower ELO regions, because apparently nobody expects an invisible jungler making their life hell.
Also imo she is very good in lvl1 fights, because E is like 100 damage lvl1 and Q is great for drawn out fights. Also she can start with both on her jungle route.
The only problem I have so far is finding a good build. I used to go lizard into warmogs, but I felt my ganking burst dmg was lacking. Then I started going spectral wraith into warmogs, but still I felt way less OP then I used to. Any tips?
EDIT: I couldn't find an Eve thread in the strategy subforum. I hope this is ok.
|
On February 11 2013 22:49 Fildun wrote:
EDIT: I couldn't find an Eve thread in the strategy subforum. I hope this is ok.
What do you mean? This is the Eve thread, right in the strategy subforum.
|
On February 12 2013 01:17 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 22:49 Fildun wrote:
EDIT: I couldn't find an Eve thread in the strategy subforum. I hope this is ok. What do you mean? This is the Eve thread, right in the strategy subforum.
It still was in the general forum when I wrote it.
|
On February 12 2013 17:20 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 01:17 Alaric wrote:On February 11 2013 22:49 Fildun wrote:
EDIT: I couldn't find an Eve thread in the strategy subforum. I hope this is ok. What do you mean? This is the Eve thread, right in the strategy subforum. It still was in the general forum when I wrote it.
Forumception
|
On February 11 2013 22:49 Fildun wrote:
So I have been playing a lot of jungle Eve lately. It seems very good in the lower ELO regions, because apparently nobody expects an invisible jungler making their life hell.
Also imo she is very good in lvl1 fights, because E is like 100 damage lvl1 and Q is great for drawn out fights. Also she can start with both on her jungle route.
The only problem I have so far is finding a good build. I used to go lizard into warmogs, but I felt my ganking burst dmg was lacking. Then I started going spectral wraith into warmogs, but still I felt way less OP then I used to. Any tips?
EDIT: I couldn't find an Eve thread in the strategy subforum. I hope this is ok.
She is way less OP than she used to be, simple as that.
Her mid is way worse because the threat of 100-->0 burst is nonexistent right now with the state of her ultimate. I have yet to try out the Lizard elder jungling method.
|
On February 13 2013 06:39 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 22:49 Fildun wrote:
So I have been playing a lot of jungle Eve lately. It seems very good in the lower ELO regions, because apparently nobody expects an invisible jungler making their life hell.
Also imo she is very good in lvl1 fights, because E is like 100 damage lvl1 and Q is great for drawn out fights. Also she can start with both on her jungle route.
The only problem I have so far is finding a good build. I used to go lizard into warmogs, but I felt my ganking burst dmg was lacking. Then I started going spectral wraith into warmogs, but still I felt way less OP then I used to. Any tips?
EDIT: I couldn't find an Eve thread in the strategy subforum. I hope this is ok. She is way less OP than she used to be, simple as that. Her mid is way worse because the threat of 100-->0 burst is nonexistent right now with the state of her ultimate. I have yet to try out the Lizard elder jungling method.
What?
If you use ult first, the damage is the same.
The 100-->0 burst potential is practically the only thing they left unchanged after the all the nerfs.
|
The DFG change means she doesn't do 65% of your health pre-reductions (she still does ~44% with DFG -> ult on the target and 300 AP).
People also tend to stack health.
Previously, you could stack MPen then DFG->ult somebody to drop them to low enough health that a EQQ combo (or even just QE) would finish them off every time. Two things happened:
- your %health damage isn't high enough anymore that you can snipe them with so little.
- people buy more health so MPen or not, even the 30% max health the pre-nerfs DFG->ult combo would drop them to would be too much to handle for Eve.
Combine the two, and she can't snipe people anymore. She's still a good initiator, especially in an AoE team, and a good disrupter against squishies and carries that haven't bought their health item yet and have to deal with her or get Q'd down if they ignore her and her huge shield in the middle of the team, but that's not what was asked of her so you have to play Eve differently now (and closer to what Riot seemed to aim at with the remake).
|
ive been playing eve as a bruiser top and getting a ice fist on her is really funny. ive been using frozen mallet instead of warmogs and its working fairly well. nashors tooth is really good as well. theres so many items that she can use its hard figuring out the best order to buy so far im starting with a cloth 5 and then boots into haunting guise after that a giants belt and from there idk. im runing adc runes and 9-21 masteries with the points in both ap and ad. she plays similar to olaf, except with 550 move speed and invisibilty.
|
Tried to jungle Eve, going machete+5 -> spirit stone + boots -> sorcs -> wraith spirit -> guise, and then I just built Liandry's because people were all getting randuin's/zhonya's and stuff because of fed Kha'Zix and splitpushing Tryndamere so I was dealing true damage to them anyway.
She felt a bit slow, even with the wraith spirit, but maybe that's because I didn't put much AP into my masteries (went 9-21-0, I guess I could have just went 21-9-0 or something) or runes (MPen/armour/scaling AP/MS, my only page with both MPen and armour).
I ended up behind too because our Caitlyn didn't understand that when your jungler goes into the purple tribrush after his gank put the enemy carry around 100 HP and the lane is pushing hard, you're supposed to push harder and pressure the tower so he can dive and get you a kill, so I died.
I wasn't until I had Liandry's+Wraith spirit worth of AP and level 11+ that I really felt I was doing something. Her level 1 ultimate's damage and cooldown are really underwhelming, plus if you don't build a bunch of AP you won't be able to farm creep waves well when you hold or just farm a sidelane.
If somebody's been jungling Evelynn with more success since her nerfs and the jungle changes I'd be eager to read about it, I like the idea behind her (especially using her passive in the jungle) but her power curve feels really underwhelming right now, especially considering how weak her early jungling is.
|
I find Eve goes either too low in mana or hp in the jungle. So instead, I just pick a lane and camp the crap out of it. I tell the laner to play aggro as hell and just countergank over and over again. (works a lot more than you think because no one thinks you're going to just afk in the lane nonstop) Ideally this should be bot because bot laners get so complacent with regular green wards. Even vision wards don't really shut you down because of bush vision ward mechanics. You have to pick a lane that can aggro well because if you're in a soraka/vayne lane for god knows what reason, it's probably not so hot. Aside from buffs & the occasional wraith camp, I don't think I bother being in the jungle at all. On the other hand, it's very nice for purple side because you basically offer free wraith camps for mid and golems for top with the caveat that you need blue pretty much nonstop because otherwise you just can't level. PS. You can also do a red elixir + 4 pots + ward solo lane style for her in the jungle. The machete doesn't really make a difference especially because spirit stone is meh until spectral wraith and you might end up wanting to just rush a codex => morellonomicon instead or haunting into liandry.
|
Is Morellonomicon good on her? I mean, obviously if for some reason you need its passive, Hate Spikes are great to constantly apply it, but does the CDR have value apart from her ult?
|
On March 10 2013 05:53 Alaric wrote:
Is Morellonomicon good on her? I mean, obviously if for some reason you need its passive, Hate Spikes are great to constantly apply it, but does the CDR have value apart from her ult?
I was too squishy in a fight without the shield from her ult. =\ The overall build up is also pretty decent. I mean, ideally you obviously would like the Rabadons + Lichbane + Liandries but I've never had money so I just end up building whatever gave good AP + CDR.
|
On February 13 2013 20:33 Alaric wrote:
The DFG change means she doesn't do 65% of your health pre-reductions (she still does ~44% with DFG -> ult on the target and 300 AP).
People also tend to stack health.
Previously, you could stack MPen then DFG->ult somebody to drop them to low enough health that a EQQ combo (or even just QE) would finish them off every time. Two things happened:
- your %health damage isn't high enough anymore that you can snipe them with so little.
- people buy more health so MPen or not, even the 30% max health the pre-nerfs DFG->ult combo would drop them to would be too much to handle for Eve.
Combine the two, and she can't snipe people anymore. She's still a good initiator, especially in an AoE team, and a good disrupter against squishies and carries that haven't bought their health item yet and have to deal with her or get Q'd down if they ignore her and her huge shield in the middle of the team, but that's not what was asked of her so you have to play Eve differently now (and closer to what Riot seemed to aim at with the remake).
With her old ult and old DFG, she would still be crazy good. If she can do 70%+ (that isn't even a high number for prenerf eve/dfg, 6 items was more than 100% max health), she's still going to drop most targets in E + 1-3 Qs.
Your second point is kind of strange. Against someone who is getting mass health and modest amounts of MR, flat penetration + %max health spells is the best possible way to damage them. I don't see how the health stacking in S3 would hurt such a champion more then the resist stacking in S2.
|
Simple: against MR, you can buy a void staff and drastically reduce their damage reduction. Against HP, you have to build more AP (unless you're a dps-oriented mage like Karthus/Ryze/Cass and it just takes longer for you to kill). But it's easier, especially now in s3, to reach a health pool that no matter how much AP you stack your base damage and ratios won't match, even if you were to deal true damage.
This doesn't matter much to champs like Nidalee, Lux, Orianna who can poke till the target is low enough, and are "utility mages" anyway, or champs like Kassadin, Rumble who have very low cooldown and aim at crippling you, then finishing you off with the next rotation, than 100-0ing you unless they're fed.
However, initiators like Annie, Ahri, or burst mages like Evelynn and Viktor can't 100-0 those targets anymore, not matter what they build. This makes their lives and goals much harder, and emphasise even more their peak timing during midgame, relative to late game where their inability to instakill a valuable target will harshly hurt them. While they can still function, they have a countdown to win the game until the enemy team gets tanky enough.
(And yes, you have exceptions, like LeBlanc or Syndra who could probably drop somebody with DFG assuming true damage. That's not the point though, as DFG is an assassin item and I was talking more about burst mages in general.
Note that Warmogs didn't have its cost nerfed yet when I wrote the post you quoted too, and you could see 3k HP champs everywhere as soon as 25 or even 20 minutes, or earlier for solo lanes with high base HP.)
|
On February 13 2013 20:33 Alaric wrote:
The DFG change means she doesn't do 65% of your health pre-reductions (she still does ~44% with DFG -> ult on the target and 300 AP).
People also tend to stack health.
Previously, you could stack MPen then DFG->ult somebody to drop them to low enough health that a EQQ combo (or even just QE) would finish them off every time. Two things happened:
- your %health damage isn't high enough anymore that you can snipe them with so little.
- people buy more health so MPen or not, even the 30% max health the pre-nerfs DFG->ult combo would drop them to would be too much to handle for Eve.
Combine the two, and she can't snipe people anymore. She's still a good initiator, especially in an AoE team, and a good disrupter against squishies and carries that haven't bought their health item yet and have to deal with her or get Q'd down if they ignore her and her huge shield in the middle of the team, but that's not what was asked of her so you have to play Eve differently now (and closer to what Riot seemed to aim at with the remake).
The 44% doesn't take the damage amplification from deathfire grasp into account. If you 100-->0 a target, dfg will have dealt another ~9.5% max health dmg.
Simple calculation:
+ Show Spoiler +Dfg deals 20% bonus dmg on the remaining health (56%), which means that for every 5 dmg dealt, dfg will add 1 dmg. Thus dfg accounts for 1 out of 6 remaining dmg.
56% / 6 = 9.5%
So ult + dfg will account for ~53% max health. Eve was nerfed, but not as badly as you make it sound.
Anyway, I agree on your latest post regarding the playstyle of post-nerf Eve, as it is harder to instagib people unless you are fed. She's still fine though. (Eve main in plat 2 if it matters).
Edit: Solo queue: I disagree with the notion that you have to win in the mid game though. Even if you fail to snowball early, it is still reasonably feasible to win games in late game simply by sneaking a kill on their ad carry, whom you are still able to instagib.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OtFd7H7.jpg)
