|
United States47024 Posts
On January 19 2011 18:47 DM20 wrote:
I guess I just dont play high enough level games because most of the time I've got to chase someone down for the kill or catch up to my overextended carry or just be at an undefended lane faster.
At the point where you need to be running around to undefended lanes, you probably haven't finished FoN yet (getting HoG/Cata/Visage/Mercs and possibly Randuin's first), and chasing is very often not the right thing to do anyway.
|
On January 19 2011 18:30 Navi wrote:
when i say any organization at all, i mean that they use their skills in a fight.
that's all, really.
regardless of how retarded your teammates are, they generally keep up that standard of play.
as for tanks with banshee, the point is still valid. every spell that they use is a disable/damage that they can't use for its cd after the battle has started. so some tanks, like amumu, benefit from this as it allows them to pull of their initiation without a hitch. others, like cho, are given the option of being able to continue using his disables / soak up damage for their carry with the bveil. the effect of "i've already blown an aoe stun on these mofos but this cho can still disable us so that we can't follow up" is still very valuable. you just have to use it right and not get it stupidly wasted by a underlevelled ezreal mystic or something lol
of course I'm not arguing against you/with dm20 on this or that banshee's isn't a legit pickup on tanks, just noting it's got a different and not as valuable purpose on tanks. it's not even related to the thread, really
|
I understand my build isn't optimal in teamfights, but in solo queue more often then not there are small skirmishes that sometimes lead to teamfights. My build excels in smaller skirmishes. The increased mobility makes landing ruptures so much easier, honestly think how many times on cho you've been chasing some low squishy and hes in rupture range but he'll make it off the spikes before they activate closing that distance will make you land those ruptures. Once the rupture lands they are in your cho vortex of death and soon to be digested.
My entire playstyle is centered around being able to eliminate someone quickly and avoiding full on teamfights. Get in kill someone quick and retreat, FoN + Carnivore makes healing back up easy, take advantage of your number advantage and push.
And my reason for still using sunfire is because once you've blown your load as cho you kinda just sit there being big.
|
demonstrates the big problem with discussing strategy alot in forums. LoL just becomes a different game as you get to higher skill levels. so people argue so much when really they are playing different games.
|
This isn't even a matter of levels. Banshees is straight up better than FoN if you play Cho right. I guarantee you if I played in your games I'd still be CRUSHING with my builds because they are optimized so much better.
|
And LOL @ FoN "excels in small skirmishes" more than Banshees Veil
|
On January 21 2011 06:47 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
And LOL @ FoN "excels in small skirmishes" more than Banshees Veil
You keep looking at this on an item vs item basis when its the entire package. I'm able to sit on guys and grind them down with sunfire/auto attack. I dont need a banshee's to block a few spells I'm fucking Cho I got 6 stacks for that shit.
|
well fon is better with 4 warmogs
|
United States47024 Posts
On January 21 2011 07:35 DM20 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 06:47 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
And LOL @ FoN "excels in small skirmishes" more than Banshees Veil You keep looking at this on an item vs item basis when its the entire package. I'm able to sit on guys and grind them down with sunfire/auto attack. I dont need a banshee's to block a few spells I'm fucking Cho I got 6 stacks for that shit.
You're not a physical carry. Your goal isn't "grind them down". If you're playing tank, you need to keep their asses off your team, and that requires not getting stuck in stuns. If you're playing AP, your goal is to instagib one of their team members, and blocking 1 CC is going to help you more in that than persistent movespeed.
If you want to play a tanky champ that chases people down, and autoattacks them to death, well, that's not exactly Cho's kit.
|
United States37500 Posts
Only time I get FoN over Banshee is when the champion I play doesn't have a mana pool and I need MR. Otherwise, spell block every minute is too good. Not sure how anyone can try to justify what FoN has that makes it better than Banshee.
|
On January 21 2011 07:35 DM20 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 06:47 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
And LOL @ FoN "excels in small skirmishes" more than Banshees Veil You keep looking at this on an item vs item basis when its the entire package. I'm able to sit on guys and grind them down with sunfire/auto attack. I dont need a banshee's to block a few spells I'm fucking Cho I got 6 stacks for that shit.
I don't keep looking down on this on an item-vs-item basis, your entire package SUCKS and I'm telling you why. You're playing Cho wrong but that's okay. I see a lot of top players play Cho wrong too. I'm just telling you how to get better. I've been maining Chogath since beta and he's got me to 1850 in ranked, he's been my best friend for over a year in this game and I have learned a LOT about him in that time. I used to think like you and I'm just saying that now I think completely differently because I really thought about and tested it.
|
Like for real when ranked started I had about 600 wins with Cho and that was half a year ago, before my 150~ ranked wins with him and the COUNTLESS wins in normal since then. That isn't counting the losses, either. I've probably won more games with Cho than you've played total. Trust me on this, I'm giving you some insight into him that has come from a year and a half of grinding.
|
On January 21 2011 07:55 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 07:35 DM20 wrote:On January 21 2011 06:47 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
And LOL @ FoN "excels in small skirmishes" more than Banshees Veil You keep looking at this on an item vs item basis when its the entire package. I'm able to sit on guys and grind them down with sunfire/auto attack. I dont need a banshee's to block a few spells I'm fucking Cho I got 6 stacks for that shit. You're not a physical carry. Your goal isn't "grind them down". If you're playing tank, you need to keep their asses off your team, and that requires not getting stuck in stuns. If you're playing AP, your goal is to instagib one of their team members, and blocking 1 CC is going to help you more in that than persistent movespeed. If you want to play a tanky champ that chases people down, and autoattacks them to death, well, that's not exactly Cho's kit.
but cho can't really tank like that, you're ability to take more damage isn't going to keep people off your allies they'll just ignore you.Your presence has to have a noticeable effect besides ulting a guy. Cho isn't a strong teamfight character so I don't understand the need to try and make him one.
|
On January 21 2011 08:08 NeoIllusions wrote:
Only time I get FoN over Banshee is when the champion I play doesn't have a mana pool and I need MR. Otherwise, spell block every minute is too good. Not sure how anyone can try to justify what FoN has that makes it better than Banshee.
really? recent nerfs on banshee make it a lot harder to insta-pick over FoN imo. hp nerf, mana nerf, MR nerf... i don't think FoN is the end-all be-all MR item and i still prioritize banshee 55-60% of the time but it's definitely not leagues better than FoN imo. but then i play more tanks than carries so i guess i don't need the spell block as direly
|
United States37500 Posts
On January 21 2011 08:35 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 08:08 NeoIllusions wrote:
Only time I get FoN over Banshee is when the champion I play doesn't have a mana pool and I need MR. Otherwise, spell block every minute is too good. Not sure how anyone can try to justify what FoN has that makes it better than Banshee. really? recent nerfs on banshee make it a lot harder to insta-pick over FoN imo. hp nerf, mana nerf, MR nerf... i don't think FoN is the end-all be-all MR item and i still prioritize banshee 55-60% of the time but it's definitely not leagues better than FoN imo. but then i play more tanks than carries so i guess i don't need the spell block as direly
Yes, even with nerfs. Spell block is that strong. Not to mention Banshee is a great way for carries and tanks to expand their mana pool. It's very obvious for carries but even for tanks, what other options do you have for mana pool expansion? Glacial? It's not always cost effective.
|
United States37500 Posts
|
On January 21 2011 08:43 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 08:35 gtrsrs wrote:On January 21 2011 08:08 NeoIllusions wrote:
Only time I get FoN over Banshee is when the champion I play doesn't have a mana pool and I need MR. Otherwise, spell block every minute is too good. Not sure how anyone can try to justify what FoN has that makes it better than Banshee. really? recent nerfs on banshee make it a lot harder to insta-pick over FoN imo. hp nerf, mana nerf, MR nerf... i don't think FoN is the end-all be-all MR item and i still prioritize banshee 55-60% of the time but it's definitely not leagues better than FoN imo. but then i play more tanks than carries so i guess i don't need the spell block as direly Yes, even with nerfs. Spell block is that strong. Not to mention Banshee is a great way for carries and tanks to expand their mana pool. It's very obvious for carries but even for tanks, what other options do you have for mana pool expansion? Glacial? It's not always cost effective.
if i'm playing a tank that needs mana pool expansion then i'm playing malphite, and so yeah i'll go frozen heart on him because it synergizes so well with his E and randuins. but i also get banshee on him so i can transition to manamune later.
|
On January 21 2011 08:34 DM20 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 07:55 TheYango wrote:On January 21 2011 07:35 DM20 wrote:On January 21 2011 06:47 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
And LOL @ FoN "excels in small skirmishes" more than Banshees Veil You keep looking at this on an item vs item basis when its the entire package. I'm able to sit on guys and grind them down with sunfire/auto attack. I dont need a banshee's to block a few spells I'm fucking Cho I got 6 stacks for that shit. You're not a physical carry. Your goal isn't "grind them down". If you're playing tank, you need to keep their asses off your team, and that requires not getting stuck in stuns. If you're playing AP, your goal is to instagib one of their team members, and blocking 1 CC is going to help you more in that than persistent movespeed. If you want to play a tanky champ that chases people down, and autoattacks them to death, well, that's not exactly Cho's kit. but cho can't really tank like that, you're ability to take more damage isn't going to keep people off your allies they'll just ignore you.Your presence has to have a noticeable effect besides ulting a guy. Cho isn't a strong teamfight character so I don't understand the need to try and make him one.
Like I was saying, you really need to learn how to play Chogath, he's a HUGE TEAMFIGHT WRECKER. 3 second AoE silence? AoE knockup slow? 800 true damage nuke? Blocks spells and clicks with his body? Best AD scaling in the game PLUS a skill that gives +60 AoE damage?
There are three ways to play Cho:
Tank CDR (7-8 second scream that keeps them silenced in AoE for 3 seconds, 5-6 second rupture that knocks up as part of a chain CC AND slows in AoE, a 36 second feast, and on top of that you never die)
Straight AP nuker (2-shot squishies. 3-shot mundo.)
Hybrid AP/Tank (Do a lot of damage and provide a lot of CC but still tank for the team. Very balanced and useful against comps that you need both the CC and the burst for like Akali, Vlad, Eve or Trundle.)
It depends what you want to do but you seem to have no real idea what you're doing and you're not fitting into any of those categories. Note that "straight tank Cho" isn't on there because he's fucking terrible.
|
Regarding CDR Cho, I hope that will remain viable after the nerfs to CDR tank items.
Also, I have a few jungle Cho related questions.
First, what is more important to his succes, Aspd red or Armor yellow? Don't have the IP for both yet.
And do you get a level in Vorpal early when jungling? It sounds great for jungling, but is it worth sacrificing a level in Rupture or Scream for?
|
wtf lol cd boots are so good on cho, he got a huge buff
sometimes i still go merc/sorc tho, depends on comp
Aspd reds much more important and they're more useful overall
when you jungle e is your first point because you smite big wraith and hit each one twice and the last one three times and it kills them all in the least amount of attacks
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
