EPTglacial/nlr (vs teams you feel safe against)
frozen heart/randuins (vs AD heavy teams)
abyss/rylais (vs AP heavy teams)
[Champion] Chogath - Page 3
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DM20
Canada544 Posts
glacial/nlr (vs teams you feel safe against) frozen heart/randuins (vs AD heavy teams) abyss/rylais (vs AP heavy teams) | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
don't do that ^ [edit] Okay, I should say more than that. Your item choices are okay but the reasoning behind them is straight retarded. Why should you get a rylais instead of a banshees vs heavy ap teams? Why is sunfire/FoN core? I don't even get sunfire on Cho and I RARELY get FoN anymore. Why is glacial vs teams you feel safe against but frozen heart vs "heavy ad teams"? Your thought process behind item choices doesn't make any sense. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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DM20
Canada544 Posts
I get Sunfire because its high armor high health and the passive doesn't hurt and allows you to last hit by just sitting near creeps. Glacial is for the CDR and Mana, frozen heart is 1400g mostly into physical mitigation.Therefore if you feel safe you can cut out defense and get some AP. I never said get rylais over banshee's, its just in most situations fon/merc/abyss is more than enough MR, and rylais helps you catch ranged carries easier. Yes if its a nuke/cc team you get a banshee's but otherwise you really don't need 3 negaton items. Sometimes I have to get frozen heart and abyss, sometimes I don't get either. I just posted the most generic principles i follow. | ||
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DM20
Canada544 Posts
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Jaksiel
United States4130 Posts
On January 19 2011 11:03 DM20 wrote: I get Sunfire because its high armor high health and the passive doesn't hurt and allows you to last hit by just sitting near creeps. Cho can annihilate a creep wave very easily without Sunfire just by using his abilities, armor items that give CDR (Randuin's, Glacial) are much better on him if you're building armor. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
No but seriously those are bad reasons. | ||
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DM20
Canada544 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
FoN+Glacial+Sunfire, 6895 gold - 450 HP, 425 Mana, 90 Armor, 76 MR, 40 HP5, 20% CDR, 7% Movespeed, associated passives Visage+Randuin+Banshee, 7190 gold - 925 HP, 375 Mana, 80 Armor, 80 MR, 25 HP5, 20% CDR, associated passives and actives Personally, I think the Visage+Randuin+Banshee passives/actives blow the FoN+Sunfire passives out of the water. And that's not even considering the fact that HoG and Catalyst as components have additional utility through early-midgame while FoN/Glacial/Sunfire build from a bunch of base items. | ||
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R04R
United States1631 Posts
On January 19 2011 12:33 TheYango wrote: In terms of the items you've laid out, I don't see why you'd get FoN+Glacial+Sunfire when Visage+Randuin+Banshee's gives comparable stats for similar cost while also giving you a bunch of kickass utility like the Randuin slow and the BVeil shield. FoN+Glacial+Sunfire, 6895 gold - 450 HP, 425 Mana, 90 Armor, 76 MR, 40 HP5, 20% CDR, 7% Movespeed, associated passives Visage+Randuin+Banshee, 7190 gold - 925 HP, 375 Mana, 80 Armor, 80 MR, 25 HP5, 20% CDR, associated passives and actives Personally, I think the Visage+Randuin+Banshee passives/actives blow the FoN+Sunfire passives out of the water. And that's not even considering the fact that HoG and Catalyst as components have additional utility through early-midgame while FoN/Glacial/Sunfire build from a bunch of base items. Holy Fuck. That was such a solid argument. Props. Detailed theorycrafting. | ||
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DM20
Canada544 Posts
On January 19 2011 12:33 TheYango wrote: In terms of the items you've laid out, I don't see why you'd get FoN+Glacial+Sunfire when Visage+Randuin+Banshee's gives comparable stats for similar cost while also giving you a bunch of kickass utility like the Randuin slow and the BVeil shield. FoN+Glacial+Sunfire, 6895 gold - 450 HP, 425 Mana, 90 Armor, 76 MR, 40 HP5, 20% CDR, 7% Movespeed, associated passives Visage+Randuin+Banshee, 7190 gold - 925 HP, 375 Mana, 80 Armor, 80 MR, 25 HP5, 20% CDR, associated passives and actives Personally, I think the Visage+Randuin+Banshee passives/actives blow the FoN+Sunfire passives out of the water. And that's not even considering the fact that HoG and Catalyst as components have additional utility through early-midgame while FoN/Glacial/Sunfire build from a bunch of base items. thank you for this rational arguement. I'll have to try out Visage/randuins over glacial/sunfire, but I'm always going to get FoN because the movespeed is really fucking game changing on cho. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 19 2011 17:27 DM20 wrote: thank you for this rational arguement. I'll have to try out Visage/randuins over glacial/sunfire, but I'm always going to get FoN because the movespeed is really fucking game changing on cho. Say there's a Rammus powerballing into your team. You eat the powerball because you don't want that Rammus taunting/sitting on your carry. Now which would you rather have--a measly 7% movespeed, or to not be slowed by 60%? | ||
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DM20
Canada544 Posts
On January 19 2011 17:33 TheYango wrote: Say there's a Rammus powerballing into your team. You eat the powerball because you don't want that Rammus taunting/sitting on your carry. Now which would you rather have--a measly 7% movespeed, or to not be slowed by 60%? the problem with banshee's is its easy to poke off and its not always up, the 7% movepseed will help me land more feasts and screams more reliably and easily. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
heroes that make better use of itemizing movement speed are generally kiting/pokey heroes. with the exception of fleeing/chasing (neither of which are optimal for champions who want to be in the nitty-gritty like cho), itemized movement speed generally does nothing for you in big teamfights. you will hardly notice that movespeed if your team engages properly; they should have enough cc to make that movespeed unnecessary (and the enemy team should have the cc to make it negligible as well, in most escaping + chasing situations etc.). and ya, as yango said, catalyst is such a flexible option (especially for cho) in that you will almost never be wrong in getting it early. getting it makes cho nigh impossible to harass in lane and gives him ultimate staying power, and can be built into RoA, banshees, etc. It is much more effective than two regen pendants in that it helps your mana pool + flat regen per level as well, giving you the option of a more harass oriented playstyle without having to worry about mana / timing your skills to hit minions when harassing (for ur passive). | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
On January 19 2011 17:42 DM20 wrote: the problem with banshee's is its easy to poke off and its not always up, the 7% movepseed will help me land more feasts and screams more reliably and easily. saying that banshee has a "problem" because it is easy to poke off is kinda dumb. why would anybody ever get banshee, because you could just "poke it off"? of course, this argument is more valid when the enemy team is running a poke/kite comp, but those are fairly rare these days. the thing is, every banshee poked off is an extra source of damage/cc that you have mitigated and the enemy team has lost. starting a teamfight while the enemy anivia's q is on cd is much more advantageous than if not, and even if she does start the teamfight with it off cd and your banshee up, that banshee will give you the time to start a q yourself so that their team cannot take advantage of anivia's stun, etc. in any teamfight where your team has any organization at all, landing feasts and screams should be a matter of landing your q and following up (or using your teammates cc to your advantage). 7% movespeed won't offset almost all slows in the game (ashe volley/q, anivia, singed, w/e u name it), and vice versa if those heroes are on your team. | ||
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DM20
Canada544 Posts
in any teamfight where your team has any organization at all, landing feasts and screams should be a matter of landing your q and following up (or using your teammates cc to your advantage). 7% movespeed won't offset almost all slows in the game (ashe volley/q, anivia, singed, w/e u name it), and vice versa if those heroes are on your team. I must be playing a different game than you, because unless I'm playing with people i know my teammates are either greedy bastards or drooling retards with no sense of team play at all. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On January 19 2011 17:50 Navi wrote: saying that banshee has a "problem" because it is easy to poke off is kinda dumb. why would anybody ever get banshee, because you could just "poke it off"? of course, this argument is more valid when the enemy team is running a poke/kite comp, but those are fairly rare these days. the thing is, every banshee poked off is an extra source of damage/cc that you have mitigated and the enemy team has lost. starting a teamfight while the enemy anivia's q is on cd is much more advantageous than if not, and even if she does start the teamfight with it off cd and your banshee up, that banshee will give you the time to start a q yourself so that their team cannot take advantage of anivia's stun, etc. in any teamfight where your team has any organization at all, landing feasts and screams should be a matter of landing your q and following up (or using your teammates cc to your advantage). 7% movespeed won't offset almost all slows in the game (ashe volley/q, anivia, singed, w/e u name it), and vice versa if those heroes are on your team. dm20 is saying some pretty silly stuff in this thread, but I want to note that I value banshee's very differently on tanks than on carries. It's a much much less powerful item on a tank because they're actually built to withstand some degree of cc, whereas if a carry gets hit by one disable it can often mean instant death. Tanks are also a lot more likely to get their shield popped by something that doesn't matter simply because they're in front - if somebody makes it through your whole team to throw a spell at the carry it's probably got a hell of a punch, whereas people feel free to spam at the tank taking point. Still a reasonable item on either type of course. uh, I don't play cho, that's just a sidenote. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
that's all, really. regardless of how retarded your teammates are, they generally keep up that standard of play. as for tanks with banshee, the point is still valid. every spell that they use is a disable/damage that they can't use for its cd after the battle has started. so some tanks, like amumu, benefit from this as it allows them to pull of their initiation without a hitch. others, like cho, are given the option of being able to continue using his disables / soak up damage for their carry with the bveil. the effect of "i've already blown an aoe stun on these mofos but this cho can still disable us so that we can't follow up" is still very valuable. you just have to use it right and not get it stupidly wasted by a underlevelled ezreal mystic or something lol | ||
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DM20
Canada544 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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