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On April 13 2013 16:54 Sufficiency wrote:
I am just glad that she can't trade anymore. Previously, I had to ban her every game because picking her practically made Kat automatically win mid lane. It was so dumb.
Although now Katarina is back to her win % prior to the remake, lol. So I am not sure if the remake did her any good.
She is actually good vs. good players now, so yes?
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On April 13 2013 13:32 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2013 12:19 Ryuu314 wrote:
liandry's also doesn't increase the flat magic pen from guise. You're essentially paying 980 gold for 25 ap and the Liandry's burn passive, which is pretty terrible on Kat. The burn passive deals half damage on aoe skills, which is basically Kat's entire kit except for E. You're probably much better off selling guise for something else if the game ever goes so late that you need that inventory slot. the burn damage does not deal half damage on AOE skills...where did you read that?
It USED to have half duration on aoe skills, but that made it a noobtrap on so many ap champs so it does full duration on aoe skills now. Rylai Liandry is actually pretty damn good on kat, who hits people often enough to maintain the burn without overwriting it much.
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With new patch it looks like you can't go 2 wards 9 pots on Kat anymore since potions are capped at 5.
So what is the best starting build for Kat now
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Rejuv+4pots+2wards or Rejuv+5 pots+1ward or Doran's Shield maybe (?????)..
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Rejuvenation sounds like it could work great but do you just sell it at some point to get better items?
I'm not a fan of warmog tbh
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What are accepted Runes on Kat now? I'm looking to start SoloQ with her and I feel the runeset's I had for her back in 2011 are inefficient now.
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United States37500 Posts
I run Move Speed Quints - Magic Pen - Scaling HP - Flat MR
TiensiNoAkuma runs MS - MPen - AP/Lvl - AP/Lvl
scarra runs MS - MPen - Flat Armor - Flat MR
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Hello friends,
I've started to play mid/top (depends on lane switching) on my team after we got a support sub and our mid player went on vacation. I have two questions and idea regarding Katarina (sorry if the question should be in the QA thread).
Question 1: Q vs W
When do you decide which to max first? I like W vs an opponent who can't clear fast so I can roam faster and Q vs opponents where I have to frequently farm from a distance - is this the correct line of thinking, or is this a subpar skill order/choice?
Idea/Question: Spell Vamp+CDR?
Originally I went for an early Gunblade due to Kat scaling off both AD and AP, but I've been trying out Wraith Stone - being able to start with a Bead I can actually turn into something really good have been nice and the CDR I've found to actually be surprisingly strong since her passive is a flat reduction (and shunpo is a beast with high CDR). It's fairly cheap compared to Gunblade while it obviously does not pack the same punch, it just feels like a much more 'liquid' item route.
- against a heavy AD team (or lane opponent) I've tried using CDR blues to start with 10% granting me 20% with stone and thus easily reaching max. With max CDR Katarina's ult is immediately online with "just" 2 assists/kills making triggering her chain very easy.
CDR helps a lot with going into "Singed mode" vs Melee by spamming Sinister Steel and allows ultimate to be online in lane so much more frequently.
Question 2: Deathcap, yay or nay?
I've been ignoring the cap for the last few games feeling much more confident with a tankier build with the philosophy that "only damage"-items are bad on a champion who needs to live long enough for resets to kick in. My core items have been:
Boots
Spellvamp
Abyssal
Sunfire
Where the two remaining slots usually are Guise, Rylai, Hourglass, ward slot and/or DFG. Is this feeling of need for more tankiness due to bad teamfight mechanics with a carry or is tanky Katarina the way to go? Basically is it worth to sacrifice frontloaded damage for "delayed damage".
Again, if this is the wrong thread I'm sorry.
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max W in every situation where you aren't getting rolled over in lane
spellvamp and cdr aren't stats worth prioritizing on her because all of her damage spells now register as AoE so you barely heal anything and her passive solves your cooldown issues. If you happen to pick up some from DFG/gunblade its fine but you simply don't get those items because they offer you cdr and spellvamp.
if you are confident enough that you can live when you go deathcap then you probably should. liandries + rylai build is rather weak imo because all of her main spells are AoE and currently her kit is designed to basically all in the enemy instead of sitting around and trying to poke them down.
i see most top lane katarinas opt for a slightly tankier build overall where mid lane usually we go full damage.
also zhonyas is one of the best items first or second items you can build on her in both roles. just don't forget to use the active as soon as the focus switches onto you.
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I thought that full AP Kat was the thing most people preferred in mid lane nowadays? I tried going Gunblade first, but it makes very little sense to me for many reasons. The active isn't particularly useful unless you're chasing someone, and you already have your shunpo + w ms steal for that. By the time you finish Gunblade, because it's such an expensive item, assuming you're also buying boots, wards and possibly pots, the lane phase is basically over, in which case the lifesteal won't help because you don't auto-attack in team fights as Kat. Spell vamp makes little sense to me because Kat is bursty and doesn't do sustained damage: you want to kill the squishies as fast as possible, not stay alive as long as possible. So isn't deathcap or zhonya's a much more viable first "big" item? Or am I completely wrong here?
I also don't understand the tankiness. Rylai's, Mask and Zhonya's are fine by me because they each give lots of AP, and the latter's active is fantastic for Kat since she gets focused all the time. But pure tank items like Sunfire Cape confuse me. Shouldn't Kat's strength be immediately killing someone to proc her passive, not doing-some-damage-and-then-waiting to proc her passive? Or is this just a stylistic choice and more viable than I'm understanding?
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On June 29 2013 23:55 InfSunday wrote:
I also don't understand the tankiness. Rylai's, Mask and Zhonya's are fine by me because they each give lots of AP, and the latter's active is fantastic for Kat since she gets focused all the time. But pure tank items like Sunfire Cape confuse me. Shouldn't Kat's strength be immediately killing someone to proc her passive, not doing-some-damage-and-then-waiting to proc her passive? Or is this just a stylistic choice and more viable than I'm understanding?
Im pretty sure by "tanky" he means zhonya's / abyssal / guise. Scarra often builds this way, getting zhonya first if against an AD opponent or Abyssal vs an AP opponent (first full item, he usually gets haunting and sorc shoes first). Deathcap is also a good item, but its very difficult to rush unless you are fed.
The site ProBuilds is also very good for build orders, especially because the site breaks down which items or components the pro buys each time they back.
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There are scarra katarina videos on youtube.You can watch those to learn how to use and build her properly.
Stacking CDR isnt a good idea on her because of her passive already does that.Everytime you get assist or kill your Q W E resets.I think best items on her are defensive AP items like zhonyas abysal rylai and liandras.Your damage is already very good i dont really buy deathcap to katarina.
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A few things to note about kat:
1) You are not an assassin. You generally cannot 100->0 people. You can't even win most trades against other mages. Against melees you sometimes can by using your ranged poke of Q, speedboost of W and escape of E
2) Know how much damage your combo (without R) does. At 9, it's only around 300 damage post-resists even with an offensive item. Try to get a full channel R off, but don't rely on it to finish targets off, go ahead and hit it whenever it's safe to channel. Go allin when your QEW will drop a target, then either E out immediately or go harder if you can snowball the resets.
3) Be careful particularly about non-skillshot CC - even if you have Shunpo ready, no-nonsense CC can lock you down and prevent you from both evading damage and dealing damage.
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On June 30 2013 06:36 sylverfyre wrote:
A few things to note about kat:
1) You are not an assassin. You generally cannot 100->0 people. You can't even win most trades against other mages. Against melees you sometimes can by using your ranged poke of Q, speedboost of W and escape of E
2) Know how much damage your combo (without R) does. At 9, it's only around 300 damage post-resists even with an offensive item. Try to get a full channel R off, but don't rely on it to finish targets off, go ahead and hit it whenever it's safe to channel. Go allin when your QEW will drop a target, then either E out immediately or go harder if you can snowball the resets.
3) Be careful particularly about non-skillshot CC - even if you have Shunpo ready, no-nonsense CC can lock you down and prevent you from both evading damage and dealing damage.
1) I'm not much of a Kat player but this sounds true. I couldn't even 1v1 a 0-0 AP Kog as 0-0 Kat. You're pretty much a bitch in lane unless you think you can kill or get someone low enough for a kill.
2) Very important to know how much damage you do. I need to go back and update my spreadsheets. But now that I know how much damage Rengar does at 18 I feel more comfortable about whether I can kill people. I don't have to guess or waste ignites.
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Thanks for all the fast replies!
I'll try to watch some more pro FPS VODS, but from the onces I've seen they don't talk much about their itemization - well Voy and Wings does, but I figure it's strictly in the toplane scenario?
Dropping a fast spell vamp sounds interesting, but I've loved it in lanes (it does help a bit on all skills since they do quite a potent amount of damage on minions when you hit alot) where I need to chill and be defensive until jungler helps - from the sounds of it I think it's just my Katarina mechanics, which is great as it's something I can improve! Something I do really like about the Wraith Stone is that I use it in lanes I'll struggle in and it makes clearing the wraith camp very easy and fast - every bit helps in these lane I feel like.
On the tankiness it's like Sajaki write, primarily AP items with a defensive ability/stat tacked on. I like Sunfire since there's a billion Jayce, Kha'Zix and Zeds lately in my Elo; helps me survive burst again it might/probably be my Katarina mechanics.
Insight on damage capability is something I've completely forgotten about - support main and everything I've always been concerned about ward timers, objective control, timing base->lane travel time, summoner timings, teamfight mechanics and skill CDR management rather than "pure kill potential" which I suppose is really important on champions like Katarina.
Sounds like there's a lot I need to learn and improve on (solo laners in general), great great great I now have something to work on and can hopefully become a better mid for my team in these situations someone is on vacation! Thanks a lot everyone giving their input, it have been tremendously helpful. 
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New patch, R is now 2.5 seconds instead of 2.
Old DPS per target:
Level 6: 400 / 2 = 200
Level 11: 500 / 2 = 250
Level 16: 600 / 2 = 300
+200% AP and +300% AD over 2s meant that you'd get +1(AP) DPS and +1.5(AD) DPS.
New DPS per target:
Level 6: 400 / 2.5 = 160
Level 11: 575 / 2.5 = 230
Level 16: 750 / 2.5 = 300
+250% AP and +375% AD over 2.5s means that you get +1(AP) DPS and +1.5(AD) DPS.
It's really just a way to make Kat scale even better into the lategame. On the bad side, you have less punch at level 6. Unless you have CC enemies have more time to get away. However you don't have the 0.25 channeling time anymore. Without AD/AP items, Kat does 517.5 damage in 2.25 seconds at level 11 versus old 500 damage, already an improvement. At 16 it's a bigger improvement. And also you now have a little bit of damage to outlast Zhonya's casting time.
Overall in the 2.25s timeframe that the spell used to occupy you do:
10% less damage at level 6
3.5% more damage at level 11
12.5% more damage at level 16
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pretty much of the mindset that kat is very viable atm
dfg rush into whatever and blow stuff up all day
her laning still sucks but she can actually do some of the damage she needed to be able to now
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I dont understand how to play Kat well...
I just feel like a non-factor unless everyone ignores me, in which case I could probably crush face harder on one of several other champions.
I dont think she does anymore damage than say a Zed unless she gets a ton of resets, but how do you do that unless you left free to your devices to use your combo? I think she Roams poorly because even though she can shove waves she needs to be in a dangerous area of the lane to do so, and once she gets to her target she can't exactly keep them there.
I could be wrong, but I feel like the only way to be a factor in the game is if you have other threats on your team and your Jungler has enough early presence so that you can get some gold in by mid game. Which, call me crazy, but in Soloqueue that feels like a recipe for a free loss to me. I dunno, I see no reason to pick her over like Fizz/Zed/Kass.
Am I missing something? I dont see how she is viable at all. I'd even rather have a good LB because atleast she has sick good early game presence..
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Pootie too good!4331 Posts
Kat is really one of those characters that you have to be a dick to your teammates in team fights.
Team fight starts and you just have to hang back and watch. as soon as someone gets low, QEW, acquire reset, and repeat. You have to be REALLY patient with her.
She's my favorite champion and I'm glad to see her getting some play.
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EPT
