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On December 18 2012 01:12 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 00:31 Callynn wrote:I replaced my opening item of Haunting Guise with Twin Shadows and it's slow is just exceptional + the ghosts on the proc will reveal ganks if you are overextending with the purpose of pushing the turret after a kill. Open with Tome and potion and upgrade asap for the bonus gold, then get boots first to enjoy the bonus gold a little bit more - trust me this opening beats the 'recommended' trash the shop tells you. However, I am by no means a pro and I have no clue what my elo is since I stopped ranked games since half a year ago (stopped at 1300 elo due to too much BM in the games, unranked is much more peaceful) so don't take my word for it if you're playing high ranked  ms is one of kats most important stats so a no-boots opening is a no-go atm. twin shadows looks kinda nice but gives less damage/gold than the other openings ppl use, especially guise is far more powerful in that regard. I would only build it when I need the reveal active for example against akali. the slow should not really be a huge thing as kat is one of the most mobile champions in the game.
If you have trouble without the ms you can take the boots first and tome + kage's lucky pick straight after, but that doesn't take away that the active on twin shadows will allow you to catch champions very far away (something guise doesn't give you). Also, the health you don't get due to not taking Haunting Guise is compensated with the MR on twin shadows which helps a lot against apc burst dmg in mid lane after lvl 6, giving very favorable exchanges.
I suppose it's a stylistic choice, but you should seriously give it a try
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again iam not saying it is bad. just that slowing is not one of the things i really mis when playing kat. I just want to be fast so i can dodge things, play more aggressively and be where i want to be. so the ms is nice on it as well as the mr can be quite welcome. but as long as I do not need the revealing effect I don't think the additional cost and lower damage output is worth it.
by the way I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that kat is so popular because I find her kinda lackluster compared to alot of the other ap carries (she is melee, has shitty poke, has no disables and stuns herself during ult). She has that annoying easy-to-play and psychologically aggressive edge on a lot of champions. no-mana-management and no skillshots mean you deal consistent damage except you are allready zoning your opponent and shunpo is probably one of the strongest basic abilities one can have mid.
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Here are some random thoughts:
* None of the new items are all that good. Liandry's would be great for lane phase but by the time you have it, it's all about the roam and you dont need it any more. There might be some choices for late-late game but I haven't really gotten that far in any game yet.
* Revolver is totally out of the questions. I don't know why it was every in question, but I liked it pre-patch and I dislike it post-patch. The leech on aoe dmg is just too little.
* With the changes to how Mpen works, Void Staff becomes a great item after Haunting Guise! True damage son!.
* I build like this:
Start boots+3pots
Pots+ward on all backs (considering flask...).
First back:
< 750g - Ruby - you prolly need it since you backed before 750g. (buy boots before HG though)
>750g - Mpen boots
Early build in order of importance: Mpen boots, HG, Void Staff.
* Still not sure on how to approach the next item. Usually want rabadon's or zhonya's. I tend to go for zhonya's.
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spirit visage?
how does that work on kat now?
anyways dfg is currently really solid on kat as it ups your burst by 20% immediately
liandry's sucks cause kat can't proc the 10% or w/e from having their movement impaired
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I guess it's the initials for Haunting Guise's Swedish name, since he says to buy sorcs before "SV" after a ruby.
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On December 18 2012 02:52 Frolossus wrote:
spirit visage?
how does that work on kat now?
anyways dfg is currently really solid on kat as it ups your burst by 20% immediately
liandry's sucks cause kat can't proc the 10% or w/e from having their movement impaired
I suppose since you get a Haunting Guise, if all other slots are filled there's no reason not to get it, especially since I like to build Rylais as 4 item on Kat
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You pretty much have to open cloth + 5 pots against certain aggressive laners (Pantheon comes to mind, especially when he starts with flask + ward + pots and have infinite mana). Boots + 3 pots gets you pushed out of lane way too easily. The problem is that GA no longer uses a cloth armor, so it doesn't build into anything.
Pantheon is a really bad matchup though. You may be better off swapping with your top lane until you're 6+ if he's a bruiser that can take some harass from Pantheon.
But ideal item path seems to still be Sorc, Haunting Guise, Zhonya, Abyssal/Void Staff (depending if you need MR, which is usually yes), GA, and most likely Deathcap as your 6th.
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On December 18 2012 03:22 Alaric wrote:
I guess it's the initials for Haunting Guise's Swedish name, since he says to buy sorcs before "SV" after a ruby.
*blush* Yeah, so...it's not spirit visage...at all...been playing Rengar and...well. Fuck!
HAUNTING GUISE!
I never tend to build DFG until later game. It's not that it's bad, it's just that when it's time to build the first NLR-item, I think Rabadon's and Zhonya's are both better (one for getting more ahead and one for cementing your lead).
The damage increase on DFG activate could be the difference between reset and no reset though. Especially good with double AP.
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an earlyish voidstaff is highly situational. if you want to get more out of your base damage after sorcs and guise you should consider abysmal
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Changes to Hextech Gunblade! - It's viable on Kat again! - Max W first? Spell vamp is no longer unique! - Stack 'em?
+45 attack damage
+65 ability power
+10% life steal
+20% spell vamp
Passive Unique - Reload: Your basic attacks and single target spells against champions reduce the cooldown of this item by 3 seconds.
Active Unique: Deals 150 + 40% of your ability power as magic damage and slows the target champion's movement speed by 40% for 2 seconds. 60 second cooldown.
*Remember her Max Damage Ult has +3.0 AD & 1.75 AP ratios. Add 248.75 damage to her ult!
 eathcap adds 262.5 damage to her ult for comparison.
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On December 18 2012 05:06 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 02:52 Frolossus wrote:
spirit visage?
how does that work on kat now?
anyways dfg is currently really solid on kat as it ups your burst by 20% immediately
liandry's sucks cause kat can't proc the 10% or w/e from having their movement impaired
I suppose since you get a Haunting Guise, if all other slots are filled there's no reason not to get it, especially since I like to build Rylais as 4 item on Kat
Pretty sure if all other slots are filled (besides Haunting Guise) on Kat, you're better off selling the guise and buying something else. Even if you do have a Rylai's, you're not going to be leaving people ALIVE long enough for the Liandry DOT to provide significant damage when your only spell to provide the full duration is Shunpo - and when you're Shunpo'd onto someone, you'd better be going for burst and not "percent of current health" (meaning it's mostly effective at near full health, enemies, particularly those on the tankier side) DoT damage.
Liandry is a poke item, designed for chunking people before an all-in fight actually happens - when you have time to WAIT for it to do its damage. Kat does not shunpo onto someone and wait for the damage to tick. She fucking blows you up asap.
Even if you have Rylais as a 4th item, let's assume this is something like DFG Deathcap Haunting Rylai (boots). You're almost definitely better off selling the guise and buying some combination of Void staff, GA, Gunblade, or Zhonya's. Liandry is worse than all 4 of these items - it doesn't matter that it builds out of an item you already have - you're better off taking your 75% sell rate and buying an item that isn't completely dissonant to your kit.
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After you have your core items just sell HG for a Void Staff for extra Mpen or another high damage item. Liandry is not efficient for Katarina. In fact its not efficient on a lot of champs but the item is new and people seem to like buying it anyway.
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On December 18 2012 05:06 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 02:52 Frolossus wrote:
spirit visage?
how does that work on kat now?
anyways dfg is currently really solid on kat as it ups your burst by 20% immediately
liandry's sucks cause kat can't proc the 10% or w/e from having their movement impaired
I suppose since you get a Haunting Guise, if all other slots are filled there's no reason not to get it, especially since I like to build Rylais as 4 item on Kat
I'd say when you get to that phase, you should sell the haunting guise for a void staff, which isn't that expensive given that it's at lategame. Kat usually kills people very fast and need her resets ASAP, so i don't think liandry's would be a great choice even if you just want to finish it.
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liandry's also doesn't increase the flat magic pen from guise. You're essentially paying 980 gold for 25 ap and the Liandry's burn passive, which is pretty terrible on Kat. The burn passive deals half damage on aoe skills, which is basically Kat's entire kit except for E. You're probably much better off selling guise for something else if the game ever goes so late that you need that inventory slot.
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what do you think about kata top with warmogs first and scepter rylais/ Mask second. everytime you buy something you buy something with a belt like Odins or firecape. doesn't really matter. in the end you've got 5 k life and sick CDR. actually it works pretty fine for me right now.boots depends on enemy team.
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I tried some Katarina today. I'm not much of a Katarina player so I expectedly sucked. I didn't feel like I could outtrade an AP Kog'maw today because' Kat's damage is relatively low in 1v1s (180 on W at max rank and low AP ratios unless you get 2 Ws or an ult) and against Kog especially you don't want to be the one backing out of trades because he can just auto you if you do.
But the weak trading was made up for by the strong pushing power and lack of mana. I was able to keep Kog underfarmed relative to myself just by keeping the lane even and threatening to push it every time he tried to go back. Then later on I messed up her combo quite a bit. It's Q, then E, then auto or W to proc Q... I constantly missed Q procs and never used my ult at the right time and didn't try too hard to be a cleanup crew. Kat seems hard. I would try her out if I weren't already happy with the mids I own.
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On January 01 2013 12:19 Ryuu314 wrote:
liandry's also doesn't increase the flat magic pen from guise. You're essentially paying 980 gold for 25 ap and the Liandry's burn passive, which is pretty terrible on Kat. The burn passive deals half damage on aoe skills, which is basically Kat's entire kit except for E. You're probably much better off selling guise for something else if the game ever goes so late that you need that inventory slot.
the burn damage does not deal half damage on AOE skills...where did you read that?
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She's also deceptively useful when built tanky. Abyssal + zhonya and then judge if you should go void staff or warmogs.
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I am just glad that she can't trade anymore. Previously, I had to ban her every game because picking her practically made Kat automatically win mid lane. It was so dumb.
Although now Katarina is back to her win % prior to the remake, lol. So I am not sure if the remake did her any good.
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On April 13 2013 13:32 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2013 12:19 Ryuu314 wrote:
liandry's also doesn't increase the flat magic pen from guise. You're essentially paying 980 gold for 25 ap and the Liandry's burn passive, which is pretty terrible on Kat. The burn passive deals half damage on aoe skills, which is basically Kat's entire kit except for E. You're probably much better off selling guise for something else if the game ever goes so late that you need that inventory slot. the burn damage does not deal half damage on AOE skills...where did you read that?
It used to, guess he didn't hear that it changed.
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EPT
