EPTCommunity Feedback Update - October 15 - Page 6
| Forum Index > Legacy of the Void |
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necrosexy
451 Posts
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
Not to mention failing to patch units widely seen as OP for months or years, buffing units no one thought needed a buff, (mostly oracle here) and constantly trying to calm community outrage with tired PR platitudes. This isn't just a Starcraft thing, I don't know about Heroes but in Hearthstone they've left OP cards alone for months and then nerfed them into uselessness. I don't know, all these community feedback things feel very one sided, like Blizzard is trying to give us their ideas for the game as if they were community ideas and ignoring actual community discussion. | ||
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wjat
385 Posts
Now, I'm scared >  | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
On October 16 2015 11:03 jalstar wrote: Blizzard has a huge communication problem with the community, this is nothing new, remember when people asked for "moving shot" from Brood War and instead of implementing BW-style micro they made the Phoenix literally shoot while moving? Not to mention failing to patch units widely seen as OP for months or years, buffing units no one thought needed a buff, (mostly oracle here) and constantly trying to calm community outrage with tired PR platitudes. This isn't just a Starcraft thing, I don't know about Heroes but in Hearthstone they've left OP cards alone for months and then nerfed them into uselessness. I don't know, all these community feedback things feel very one sided, like Blizzard is trying to give us their ideas for the game as if they were community ideas and ignoring actual community discussion. I don't know, all these community feedback things feel very one sided, like Blizzard is trying to give us their ideas for the game as if they were community ideas and ignoring actual community discussion. It really does feel that way. I've talked to several people who had close discussion with blizzard including some TL staff only reinforcing that opinion. There is a very narrow range of things that they will even consider when it relates to the game engine or gameplay. "If it can't be fixed in the map editor, don't bother suggesting it" is something that i have heard more than once. And it's really a shame, they have a great RTS that could be so much more and a community that is very willing to help out. They have taken some big steps but i really feel that it could be done differently and better for everyone involved | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On October 16 2015 09:10 WhaleOFaTale wrote: Couldn't agree more. This expansion needs ATLEAST another 6 months of work, but they HAVE TO HAVE IT RELEASED AT BLIZZCON. I don't know if it blizzard making these greedy moves, or the work of their owner-activision Doesn't matter how much time they allow for beta if they're not willing to make the massive changes that people have been asking for (from the worker/harvesting changes to macro mechanics). Personally I'm happy with the new units, tho. | ||
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My_Fake_Plastic_Luv
United States257 Posts
1) The game definitely needs to come out next month. Once the Korea pros start playing plenty of balances issues will come to the forefront. Remember Korean determines the scene. 2) I play about 25 games at low level, its actually kind of fun. There is relatively little use of any of the fore-mentioned OP units. I haven't been cheesed. No one has gotten a 200/200 sky army on me. I have no idea what parasitic bomb is. But reaper bomb is entertaining and silly. The weird surplus of minerals after building your first gateway, barracks is sort of awesome. This is all to say: without the abusive strategies the game seems great. But as soon as I get high enough to where people start being good with warp prisms, tank drops, all-ins, op-compositions, IDK, I wonder if I'll keep playing 3) Why does the adept have to be an integral unit throughout the entire game. Why can't it be like toss's version of the reaper? 4) Balance vs. game design. There is a difference right. My big thought is how are the new units changing game design. HotS is a 3 base sort of game, you only really need a fourth once the main is mined out. I think with the new eco changes, Blizz wanted LotV to be more of 4/5 base game. However with all the backdoor/harass/air units it doesn't really seem possible for a player to be on 5 bases at once. Harass units are supposed to break the deathball mentality seen in HoTs however they seem to be contributing to it, because it far more advantageous to turtle for an ultimate army than to go for 5/6 bases and win by out-ecoing an opponent. In LotV players get to 3 bases faster, but are still forced to stay mining on 3. 5) This is getting very rambley and not really in any form of coherent argument. But what if we were to massively increase the high points of buildings and to some extent workers. Then give a couple of units more damage against buildings. Would this solve lots of the overlap issues with units (for example making the cyclone an anti-building unit)? Would it solve the 3 base thing? Yes it absolutely would. I just know! 6)I realize this post is sort of dumb. One, because Blizzard isn't actually open to criticisms or suggestions. Two, because I have no idea what I'm talking about | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
3) Why does the adept have to be an integral unit throughout the entire game. Why can't it be like toss's version of the reaper? The reaper is a unit that has had issues with design throughout the entire lifespan of sc2. Toss gateway/warpgates has also had design issues and their production mechanics were extremely strong in some tight timings but units overall often unable to fight the units of other races, particularly terrans without heavy support (colossi, ht) because of how they were balanced. Adept was supposed to be a pretty strong core unit to flesh out the gateway some more and help with that problem. Do you know how reaper is used in Legacy? In TvP, terrans often make 1 reaper. They walk it to toss base. If toss went gateway first, the reaper usually dies without doing anything or leaves and camps ramp/watchtower. It's not a great unit to be wanting more of right now | ||
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TedCruz2016
Hong Kong271 Posts
Hasn't the liberator been nerfed back to what it used to be - as the siege mode is an upgrade now in the lab? | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2661 Posts
The cyclone change should be the opposite of that, a unit that is more expendable and thats not good at "destroying everything" The fix the cyclone thread was fucking spot on. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
On October 16 2015 12:27 TedCruz2016 wrote: Hasn't the liberator been nerfed back to what it used to be - as the siege mode is an upgrade now in the lab? They have messed around a lot with what it takes to get the first liberator out as zerg was struggling with that. Their function in the mid-lategame as a versatile unit that is cost and supply efficient is unchanged | ||
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
In all seriousness though... the game must come out after Blizzconn and before all the leagues start up again. They can patch the OP stuff later. I for one can't wait for this thing anymore, most of all to play the campaign and try Allied Commanders. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Yiome
China1687 Posts
People are complaining loudly about everything, and the changes "community" propose are contradicting each other... This week's feedback addressing a lot of proposing issues I saw both on TL and on reddit, I really don't know where this Blizzard is not listening to community whine comes from... *headdesk* | ||
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loft
United States344 Posts
On October 16 2015 11:07 wjat wrote: 2 Month ago I swear I was happy seeing thos community feedbacks. Now, I'm scared > Poor dev team. They are trying so hard to listen and give feedback. It's impossible though because half the community says one thing and the other half says another. Then Blizz speaks and everyone seemingly knee-jerk reacts. | ||
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
On October 16 2015 13:08 FabledIntegral wrote: Way to fix Neural Parasite - drop infestor target priority once NP is used. Right now, they are autotargeted it seems, or at least equal to top priority to be killed. They die too fast. Well yeah, any player with half a brain would manually target them lol... The game won't be balanced at release. We need the top koreans to shake things out in the first couple tournaments... Its just how it realistically will work out.. Not different from WoL release or HOTS release... | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
it's obvious no more sweeping changes are going to be made. there's huge amounts of pressure to be releasing the game now and I'm sure they regret not having more time to work on things. that's the unfortunate truth about developing a game. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2661 Posts
On October 16 2015 08:44 Spyridon wrote: Not sure if you realize i was referring to BW, but unless u are talking about spider mines, mech can't do anything to an ultra with dark swarm. Anyway, my point was, I think DK implementing strategies that are near possible to beat if a race gets to late game, is to emulate the reason people figured out such strict timings in BW over the years. Mech transition was the terran response to lategame zerg in BW, because not only tanks were insane good, but tank splash wasn't affected by DS, mines where good too, ofc, and the whole mech army was much more supply effective than the M&M one, also SV was the most common response to irradiate both ultras and defilers. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
On October 16 2015 13:46 Lexender wrote: Mech transition was the terran response to lategame zerg in BW, because not only tanks were insane good, but tank splash wasn't affected by DS, mines where good too, ofc, and the whole mech army was much more supply effective than the M&M one, also SV was the most common response to irradiate both ultras and defilers. well, both compositions were gradual transitions. they don't immediately exist because they are your way of ending the game, it's just too expensive. zerg grabs hive tech, cracklings, and defilers for defense with some lurkers (which are still used in the compositions). meanwhile, science vessels are created to make it costly to defend or attack by deleting defilers to force them to use their energy in defenses at this point. terran adds vulture and spidermines to deal with the zerglings across the map. there is enough economy backing to create a few lurkers or perhaps a handful of ultras to siege a terran base or location. at this point tanks are added because they're one of the only ways to deal with lurkers and darkswarm and are fine against zerglings. marines, medics, and firebats are still produced because it takes a long long time to transition fully into mech, and it's a more versatile unit group for attacking and punishing hopeful bases. aaand bam. if both of you survived to this point and you're defending until your full mech composition is complete, you are now planning on ending the game. hopefully for zerg they've done enough damage at this point to force the concede because god damn is it hard to walk through choke points against siege tanks. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On October 16 2015 13:32 loft wrote: Poor dev team. They are trying so hard to listen and give feedback. It's impossible though because half the community says one thing and the other half says another. Then Blizz speaks and everyone seemingly knee-jerk reacts. It's not necessarily the changes that are worrisome, it's the reasoning that's provided for the changes - or lack of reasoning provided for things staying as they are - that makes one wonder what the hell they're thinking sometimes. The Carrier nerf doesn't actually do anything to stop mass Carriers from being an unbeatable composition in PvZ. All it does is make it harder to reach that unbeatable composition. Does Blizzard realize that they're just band aiding the problem away (yet again)? If not, then that's bad. Band aids have a ungluing themselves at very opportune times once the meta has settled... and tie your hands in designing the rest of the game, besides. If they do realize exactly what they're doing, why do they think that it's a good thing to have unbeatable compositions in the game? If there's a good reason for it, then maybe providing it would have mitigated the confusion this update generated from the community. Maybe it wouldn't have. Or maybe their reason is a bad one. Yes, they're communicating, but more often than not that communication is on the level of "Adept strong! Nerf Adept! Good. Adept weak! Buff Adept! Good!" It's kind of staggering to think that in all the Adept balance talk, they never once brought up the fact that dropping its damage by 1 would make it 3-shot workers and Marines instead of 2-shotting them. It's a HUGE difference. Why did they think that dropping its HP was the best solution? Dropping its HP made it less useful in the midgame, but in the early game it did nothing to stop the occasional "Oh you're out of position so I guess you just die" phenomenon vs Terran. I'm not saying that a damage nerf would have solved everything, I can't know whether it would or it wouldn't; it's the lack of clear, straight-forward reasoning that raises sticky questions. | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On October 16 2015 14:02 nanaoei wrote: well, both compositions were gradual transitions. they don't immediately exist because they are your way of ending the game, it's just too expensive. zerg grabs hive tech, cracklings, and defilers for defense with some lurkers (which are still used in the compositions). meanwhile, science vessels are created to make it costly to defend or attack by deleting defilers to force them to use their energy in defenses at this point. terran adds vulture and spidermines to deal with the zerglings across the map. there is enough economy backing to create a few lurkers or perhaps a handful of ultras to siege a terran base or location. at this point tanks are added because they're one of the only ways to deal with lurkers and darkswarm and are fine against zerglings. marines, medics, and firebats are still produced because it takes a long long time to transition fully into mech, and it's a more versatile unit group for attacking and punishing hopeful bases. aaand bam. if both of you survived to this point and you're defending until your full mech composition is complete, you are now planning on ending the game. hopefully for zerg they've done enough damage at this point to force the concede because god damn is it hard to walk through choke points against siege tanks. I liked the science vessel vs zerg late game relationship. You had this fine line, a tug of war between these units and the SV somewhat limited outrageous zerg things like mass muta balls or anything deathball related. So engagements were all over the map with mostly basic zerg troops with some ultras defilers sprinkled on top. | ||
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