On October 16 2015 02:50 WrathSCII wrote: Highest level pros generally don’t play in the beta
I am somewhat confused who he's talking about here. The majority of (KeSPA) pro players that aren't going to be at Blizzcon seem to have switched. So is David Kim talking about the fact that IM.Mvp still streams Heart of the Swarm?
It is just them pre-building their excuse for when the game releases as a total mess.
They will go, "well our data didn't show this(yet the ENTIRE community said it) but now that pro players have all switched we can clearly see the issues!"
It just buys them time and allows them to have that excuse when this thing is a joke on release. Basically it is them saying the current beta testers, including their "internal testers," are not capable of really playing this game. They need to wait for all the pros to really show them the way.
It is a bit insulting to their own testing team and all of us that are actually playing the game and giving feedback.
Blizzard and SC2 has no clear direction of a business model and plan. Are they making this an eSport of for casuals? Personally their business model doesn't indicate they are making an eSport. The profit comes from selling of hard copies, there are no after purchase things to buy, no subscription, and the viewership isn't high enough with the eSport side to generate any real profit. So I don't get why they aren't more focused on making a game great for the masses and then let the pro players figure it out. The eSport side will grow organically, it feels so forced. And in the meantime the casual player is turned off by the game.
There is no way in it's current form someone who has little to know RTS or SC background can enjoy playing it. The number of weird nuances and details and all the armor types and damage types and abilities are overwhelming. Overall this game is really a mess and they have no idea what they are doing with it, sad to see.
On October 16 2015 02:50 WrathSCII wrote: Highest level pros generally don’t play in the beta
I am somewhat confused who he's talking about here. The majority of (KeSPA) pro players that aren't going to be at Blizzcon seem to have switched. So is David Kim talking about the fact that IM.Mvp still streams Heart of the Swarm?
Wow you are back!! :D Are you sure that the players switched already? I would have guessed that they all prepare for blizzcon atm. I am sure they tried LOTV, but playing it fulltime already?
On October 16 2015 02:50 WrathSCII wrote: Highest level pros generally don’t play in the beta
I am somewhat confused who he's talking about here. The majority of (KeSPA) pro players that aren't going to be at Blizzcon seem to have switched. So is David Kim talking about the fact that IM.Mvp still streams Heart of the Swarm?
Wow you are back!! :D Are you sure that the players switched already? I would have guessed that they all prepare for blizzcon atm. I am sure they tried LOTV, but playing it fulltime already?
I think most pros are playing part time HOTS at least, to help teammates prepare for WCS.
It makes me very sad how this community handles the feedback of Blizzard. I played BW long ago. And I tell you something SC II has improved in a good way and Blizzard did very good work on LotV the new economey is awesome. You People here have no clue about good game design and will never be happy about SC II. All you can do is complain and have no really good solutions.
Zerg is totally fine great new Units
Terra has issues but at least they talk about it give them time!!!!!
Toss is also in a good state but needs to be improved again give them time!!!!!
Do you know what. Look at the shitty BW Units. Like the shit Zerg Queen, the shit terran star port units. The Scout from Protoss. The Dark Archon and so on. You always say BW was so great. BW had also units which were bad and wouldnt be used in 99 percent in any game.
You have no clue about what you are talking about. SC II is a great game. The Problem is that the new generation of gamers plays easier titles like mobas (I dont really like them but this is the new type of E-Sports). Starcraft will be an E-Sport forever. But it will stay small for a while but thats no Problem.
This community is a problem. I read your threads for years and years. You have no idea about good game design. Evereything Blizzard does will be flamed here. Tell me which company makes good rts games. All you want is BW. I liked BW but the time is over. SC II is fun to play but you dont give Lotv a chance. It needs to be improved but think about how long it took for BW to become great?
Also i laughed loud when read abot the stupid idea about DH economey from Team Liquid. The 3 base cap is no problem because you have to expand faster. This is pressure and not the stupid DH which brings nothing to the game. SC II needs to be fast. Even faster than BW!
The next thing i had to laugh about is your complain about worker harrasment in SC II. I like that i can win the game about harrasment only! This is diversity! Oh and for the Broodwar fanboys. The same thing in harrasment happen in BW. Stormdrops, reaver Drops lurker Drops Vulture Drops with mines in workerlines and so on. They can be gameending too!!!!!!!
The most People here now nothing about SC II or Broodwar and have no clue about what they are talking about and give no constructive feedback. Ist a shame for this community.
On October 16 2015 03:07 Aquila- wrote: Wait they are talking about BUFFING adepts? What the actual fuck? Warp prism + adept is still incredibly broken vs Terran and they havent even talked about warpprism...
Adepts are hilariously weak at the moment. They're bad in the early game and useless in the later stages of the game - everyone is using stalkers and zealots instead and we all know how well they work against stimmed bio without tech unit support.
Adepts are quite good during very early game, I don't even need to mention (for PvT) the very early natural mining denial capability (mostly due to adept's big health pool + high dps + innate spell); why use stalkers when you have a far better option?! Then there's the full warp prism + 4-6+ warp gates backed adept harass, again, this hits quite early too, and usually it can wreak havoc if terran is slightly out of position (trying to drop for example), or, for whatever reason not having a proper mineral line defense (oO). Also, I don't even want to think about the upgrade ... Anyway, if properly played , adepts can cause terran a very serious economical setback , to the point where you only need to mass adepts during mid game and still be in a good shape (aka win the game) This is only for PvT , for PvZ it doesn't matter since queens are so good at everything. All in all, adepts are hilariously good at this moment, to the point where Warhounds, in retrospect, were just little silly toys.
Actually most people ARE using the stalker. Adepts do not have high HP atm. Its less than a stalker. They also only have decent dps vs light. No one is 'massing' adepts in the midgame, they aren't hilariously good at all. Better than warhounds? Mate do you even play the game? Every time things get nerfed it takes like 2 months before these people who complain about shit and seemily haven't even played the new patch to realise the meta has shifted.
They could nerf it to 50/50 and you'd probably still whine about it.
It's funny how he whines about an adept drop 'while dropping as terran'. I don't think he realizes the devastation a 1-2 medivac drop can have on economy if you don't respond accordingly. If you don't respond to an adept drop, and you're out of position, you deserve losing your entire mineral line. Such a weird whine.
Your comment is just as strange. The Medivac is Terran's sole form of mobility. We don't get creep (and our MULEs can't attack or cast spells). We don't get warpgates. And quite frankly, we don't even get anti-ground static defense until 4+ bases. So yeah, we use the Medivac to transport units around, while risking 10 supply in the process.
I'm not saying it's out of balance, or OP, or anything with this comment, just shutting down your nonsense. Toss can fly around with the Warp prism risking only the supply of the War prism. See a hole? Great. Drop and do massive damage, because Terran has to literally travel back to respond. At least a Terran drop has to pre-commit supply to the drop. Sure they can abandon if they don't like what they see, but it's a pre-commitment. Not saying this is easy to do, but at least Toss can warp in, cast PO, or have cannons to help with a drop. There is arguably more forgiveness for an unprepared Toss than an unprepared Terran.
And Cyro, dude. Adepts are "hilariously weak"? You must be kidding. Then you say your Gateway units need tech support to fight stimmed bio ... seemingly suggesting that stimmed bio doesn't need tech support to fight Gateway units. If Terran has all three Bio upgrades (shields, stim, and shells), and Protoss has all three Gateway upgrades (blink, charge, and +dps [<-- lol]), Gateway units will absolutely shreck bio, if that bio doesn't have tech support; namely, medivacs. Then, if Terran has medivacs, Protoss needs to add some tech to even things out again. You are better than this, to make such silly arguments, because you know all of this. Bu this tech is so awesome, Terran usually has to tech up again (Mines, Ghosts, or Liberators, usually).
Adepts are not hilariously weak right now. That's an absurd statement. They're no longer free-win strong, which is good.
In a shocking turn of events, SCReddit actually has been much more receptive than TL when it comes to the Community Feedback Updates, and has been for awhile now. Reports are coming in that, aside from a couple more extreme individuals, actual reasonable and respectful discussion has been taking place on the site. There are even some crazy rumors coming out that there were people thanking David Kim for his work on the game!
On October 16 2015 23:56 HighPassage wrote: In a shocking turn of events, SCReddit actually has been much more receptive than TL when it comes to the Community Feedback Updates, and has been for awhile now. Reports are coming in that, aside from a couple more extreme individuals, actual reasonable and respectful discussion has been taking place on the site. There are even some crazy rumors coming out that there were people thanking David Kim for his work on the game!
Typical Reddit. They yes to anything DK throws at them. What is the weird thing here?
I don't know man, that's just what my sources told me. I was told that SCReddit was a horrible place devoid of any real discussion so I avoided it, but it seems like they're just having normal discussions and complaints about the game instead of flip-flopping between canceling their pre-orders and talking about how the game is ruined forever with each update since the beta has been out.
To be fair these feedback threads are basically the same 10 people throwing shit at each other on repeat. The overwhelming negativity really is put in perspective when you notice that it's basically the same small group of people over and over again. I think the game is moving in a pretty good direction honestly.
1. PvZ lurker timing 2. Carrier strength after the build time nerfs 3. Siege tank drops in TvT 4. Potential revert to 10 shield nerf on Adept 5. Liberator anti ground range
those are the important fields glad they finally realized but better now then never!
nerf Lurker damage a bit and in return tune down "photon overcharge" a slight nurf to carrier hp -50 or -100 and a slight nurf to their build time (instead of the return to hots build time) would be better please give adepts their 10 shields back the unit is in a good state - you should consider to buff warp ins a tiny bit (1-2sec) liberator anti ground range -1 or -2 would be a great thing that finally allows ground units with air attack to kill them while they are unprotected
On October 17 2015 00:31 Little-Chimp wrote: To be fair these feedback threads are basically the same 10 people throwing shit at each other on repeat. The overwhelming negativity really is put in perspective when you notice that it's basically the same small group of people over and over again. I think the game is moving in a pretty good direction honestly.
I will be 100% honest. Most of the discontent, I believe, is not necessarily the state of the game, as much as Blizzard's PR ever since they announced the release date.
If they did typical patches, without these updates, I may not have known their (supposed) reasoning behind changes, but I would not have been so upset.
But to anyone who was giving feedback throughout the beta, it became very obvious their direction changed within days of the release date announcement. The community was pretty postitive about the community updates until then. After that point, the change of direction reeked of a "rushed game", and they would constantly say "As many of you have said...." and then come up with something that is completely the opposite of what the community was expressing, using the community as the reason for their changes when the community was BEGGING for something different!
From that point, the community updates just felt like a hoax. And how they consistently did that update after update, just made me feel like my/our feedback really don't mean a damn thing, and everything they have been saying these last few months has just been a sham. I wish they would just be up front about the true reasons they changed direction, and bumped up the release date, rather than give up the direction they worked towards the entire beta and act like it was what the community wanted.
Again I will be 100% honest, once they made me feel that way, I became very discontent with other things in the game. Smaller problems that I did not complain about before, became bigger issues. Why? Because I was no longer happy with the overall direction of the game, and lost faith in the developers because, despite what some people in this topic have claimed, they have shown they do NOT have a clear vision of where they want to bring this game. They completely flip-flopped ever since a few days within their release date announcement. They were saying that their changes were working out well, they were happy with the direction of the game, even defending their decisions with that direction. Then literally on september 10th they are suddenly "50/50 with their direction", followed by september 13 they announce release date (sooner than they said it would be). That just makes me unhappy with the direction & lose fiath in the devs.
But if I think about the game itself, I don't think its in THAT horrible of a state. I find it more fun than HotS.
I truly think people are more upset with Blizzard, than the game itself...
On October 17 2015 03:03 Spyridon wrote: But if I think about the game itself, I don't think its in THAT horrible of a state. I find it more fun than HotS.
I truly think people are more upset with Blizzard, than the game itself...
To be 100% Honest. I'm upset that the entire team lead by David Kim is still working on StarCraft. Since the start of the beta, I was completely against the 12 worker start and the economy state and especially the super duper fast game pace. With of all that getting ignored till this point and especially after the facade of the MM. I just lost hope in that person and his team. I just cannot accept the fact that StarCraft II is still being led by this man.
So I made my decision. I quit the Multiplayer aspect and bought the game for solely campaign and arcade. But multiplayer is not for me at all. That is why I moved to BW on ICCUP. Having a hard time there, but it is way more fun and simpler than the mess in Legacy.
blizzard, what do you think about making disruptors full damage vs biological but half damage vs armored? that way they will be useful at pvt and pvz but less useful in pvp, where the match up is becoming a bit retarded because disruptor vs disruptor battles.
On October 16 2015 02:50 WrathSCII wrote: Highest level pros generally don’t play in the beta
I am somewhat confused who he's talking about here. The majority of (KeSPA) pro players that aren't going to be at Blizzcon seem to have switched. So is David Kim talking about the fact that IM.Mvp still streams Heart of the Swarm?
Wow you are back!! :D Are you sure that the players switched already? I would have guessed that they all prepare for blizzcon atm. I am sure they tried LOTV, but playing it fulltime already?
There are enough KeSPA players that got done with Proleague early and have no teammates at Blizzcon, so they might aswell start playing LotV because we're running out of HotS tourneys (e.g. most players on Samsung including Solar who I would say is really high level). Not to mention PartinG who is at Blizzcon playing tons of LotV. I'm pretty sure at this point there's enough high level players and feedback for it to matter. Like, it has to be a shitty excuse. Or do we actually wait with balance changes until the top 2 HotS players of every race figure out what's the most broken playstyle?
On October 16 2015 02:50 WrathSCII wrote: Highest level pros generally don’t play in the beta
I am somewhat confused who he's talking about here. The majority of (KeSPA) pro players that aren't going to be at Blizzcon seem to have switched. So is David Kim talking about the fact that IM.Mvp still streams Heart of the Swarm?
Wow you are back!! :D Are you sure that the players switched already? I would have guessed that they all prepare for blizzcon atm. I am sure they tried LOTV, but playing it fulltime already?
There are enough KeSPA players that got done with Proleague early and have no teammates at Blizzcon, so they might aswell start playing LotV because we're running out of HotS tourneys (e.g. most players on Samsung including Solar who I would say is really high level). Not to mention PartinG who is at Blizzcon playing tons of LotV. I'm pretty sure at this point there's enough high level players and feedback for it to matter. Like, it has to be a shitty excuse. Or do we actually wait with balance changes until the top 2 HotS players of every race figure out what's the most broken playstyle?
Hm yeah makes sense i guess. I didn't wanna defend his excuse btw, i think blizzard didn't do nearly enough in the beta, both for balance and design.
On October 16 2015 22:05 FLuE wrote: Blizzard and SC2 has no clear direction of a business model and plan.
ATVI has a crystal clear direction and a well defined business model. No RTS game has come any where close to generating the level of revenue SC2 has. Most of Brood War's sales were via the heavily discounted $20 USD Battlechest.
if any one knows how to develop a business model around a game its ATVI.
On October 16 2015 08:44 Espartaquen wrote: Day9, hope when your game comes out it becomes the best rts out there, i hope it becomes a great esport and I hope that finally blizzard learns their lesson, we need another company to make another rts that can rival sc2, otherwise we are going to keep getting the same shitty game we just play because there is no other like it.
it won't really rival SC2.. its a 3v3 team game... no 1v1 in the artillery games product. also, each player picks 3 units and a hero unit before the game starts. so this game really isn't a head to head competitor with SC2.
now that CoH2 has more than 2 factions its a reasonable competitor to SC2. C&C3, RA2 and RA3 still have competitive communities around them.
On October 16 2015 02:50 WrathSCII wrote: Highest level pros generally don’t play in the beta
I am somewhat confused who he's talking about here. The majority of (KeSPA) pro players that aren't going to be at Blizzcon seem to have switched. So is David Kim talking about the fact that IM.Mvp still streams Heart of the Swarm?
Wow you are back!! :D Are you sure that the players switched already? I would have guessed that they all prepare for blizzcon atm. I am sure they tried LOTV, but playing it fulltime already?
There are enough KeSPA players that got done with Proleague early and have no teammates at Blizzcon, so they might aswell start playing LotV because we're running out of HotS tourneys (e.g. most players on Samsung including Solar who I would say is really high level). Not to mention PartinG who is at Blizzcon playing tons of LotV. I'm pretty sure at this point there's enough high level players and feedback for it to matter. Like, it has to be a shitty excuse. Or do we actually wait with balance changes until the top 2 HotS players of every race figure out what's the most broken playstyle?
Hm yeah makes sense i guess. I didn't wanna defend his excuse btw, i think blizzard didn't do nearly enough in the beta, both for balance and design.
Yeah I somewhat agree. The Cyclone's state of having no purpose when it could be just a solid AA ground unit if they removed the lock-on and did some other tweaks grinds my gears, and the map pool doesn't really make me want to play more games than I have to, either.
One thing about sc2 that's been a problem is the constantly changing rules of the game. It's like every time I get the game down I have to redo my strategies. Blizzard needs to change its approach to balance in future games. I would say less patches and instead more map variety, and please not another 3 game expansion pack because this rebalancing every release is a huge pain.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3Pg7bvF.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Pvgthg8.png)
