EPTOn October 08 2015 02:58 91matt wrote:
they should remove the liberator and cyclone and put in the goliath
they should remove the liberator and cyclone and put in the goliath
Goliath exists in this game already. It's called the Viking.
Iaguz: Cyclones, who needs 'em? - Page 2
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
Goliath exists in this game already. It's called the Viking. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 08 2015 02:59 BEARDiaguz wrote: Goliath exists in this game already. It's called the Viking. Thank you for this comment!  | ||
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mothergoose729
United States666 Posts
Also that picture is epic. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
I would gladly trade the Cyclone for a better Thor. | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
On October 08 2015 02:58 91matt wrote: they should remove the liberator and cyclone and put in the goliath This. 100x. | ||
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Clazziquai10
Singapore1949 Posts
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
But we like the Liberator. The Liberator is awesome. Novel, unique, fun to use. It's stats might be a bit off, atm, but I think us Terrans are fully bought in to the idea of the Liberator. We all universally dislike the Cyclone, and I think we all secretly know that the Thor sucks--big time. It would be so easy to make the Thor awesome. Give it something cool and fun to use! | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
Scrap the Cyclone and the Thor and give us the Goliath  . | ||
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91matt
United Kingdom147 Posts
On October 08 2015 03:17 TimeSpiral wrote: But we like the Liberator. The Liberator is awesome. Novel, unique, fun to use. It's stats might be a bit off, atm, but I think us Terrans are fully bought in to the idea of the Liberator. We all universally dislike the Cyclone, and I think we all secretly know that the Thor sucks--big time. It would be so easy to make the Thor awesome. Give it something cool and fun to use! The liberator, you mean the sky siege tank with mad anti-air splash and insane utility. It's a unit that can win a game simply by finding a spot where there's no overlord and sitting there denying mining for long enough for terran to get an unbeatable advantage. No doubt it's fun to use. It's certainly not fun to play against though. | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
On October 08 2015 03:18 Musicus wrote: Thanks for the article! Scrap the Cyclone and the Thor and give us the Goliath .I just said it above but I'll repeat myself I suppose, the Goliath is already in this game! It's called the Viking now. The notion that adding Broodwar units = auto improved game should already be disproved by the Lurker. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On October 08 2015 02:54 Energizer wrote: I cannot think of any infantry-based unit that terran needs since all respective roles are filled, nor can I think of any starport units with the addition of the liberator and the buff to BC's to warp anywhere. Why not an infantry space control unit? It doesn't have to be superior to the WM or Liberator, just offer an alternative playstyle, perhaps as an incentive for mech players to mix in a bit of bio! Why not an infantry siege unit? Zerg has 4 siege-capable units in the Ravager, Lurker, Brood Lord, and Swarm Host. Terran has only two - Siege Tank and Liberator. Why not an infantry unit that's capable of dealing with mass Carriers? Why not an infantry unit that enables bio vs mech in TvT? The only place left to really add a unit would be the factory, but now you're looking at a unit to add that doesn't impede on the siege tank's crowd control or the thor's anti air/single target damage. Arguably all you're left with is a spellcaster slot in place of the cyclone to do... what exactly? Terran already has the best defensive options so you're left with an offensive spellcaster thats mech oriented which cannot directly control engagements else risk being massed instead of a siege tank. Terran has the best defensive options? Arguable. Protoss has PO, Recall, very fast defensive Warp Ins, Force Fields. Terran "defensive option" Siege Tank has been verging on unusable in TvP since 2010. How about a defensive "anti all-in" unit that doesn't kill the enemy so much as stall for time? Terrans have arguably struggled against all-ins more than any other race has in HotS, and with no nerfs to the Oracle and a new pressure option added in the Adept, I don't know how much that will change... and in what direction. How about a mech unit that enables mech vs Protoss? This took me 5 minutes to come up with. I'm sure these aren't the only possible ideas for enriching the Terran race. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2625 Posts
Bio is complete and well rounded. Mech is not. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On October 08 2015 03:17 TimeSpiral wrote: But we like the Liberator. The Liberator is awesome. Novel, unique, fun to use. It's stats might be a bit off, atm, but I think us Terrans are fully bought in to the idea of the Liberator. We all universally dislike the Cyclone, and I think we all secretly know that the Thor sucks--big time. It would be so easy to make the Thor awesome. Give it something cool and fun to use! Liberators are effective but, that does mean it's a good unit. For example, Warhounds were SUPER Effective, but really trash units that nobody liked. | ||
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Little-Chimp
Canada948 Posts
On October 08 2015 03:22 BEARDiaguz wrote: I just said it above but I'll repeat myself I suppose, the Goliath is already in this game! It's called the Viking now. The notion that adding Broodwar units = auto improved game should already be disproved by the Lurker. Oh hells no, I love the new lurker. Great article btw | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
Yeah... I feel like blizzard is just forcing new units.  | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
On October 08 2015 03:32 Little-Chimp wrote: Oh hells no, I love the new lurker. Great article btw Well, I'll leave it to Zerg players to give their opinions regarding the Lurker, but from my own games it's mostly been a bit of a dud. But the main point is that Viking = Goliath 2.0. It flies now! Yay! | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On October 08 2015 03:32 GinDo wrote: Liberators are effective but, that does mean it's a good unit. For example, Warhounds were SUPER Effective, but really trash units that nobody liked. I caught an Avilo game last night. He was playing mech vs Protoss, using Liberators, Tanks, then adding in Ravens and Banshees, and finally Ghosts. The Protoss was engaging him in different locations on the map every 30 seconds or so, and every 30 seconds, Avilo would have to disassemble his defenses, reposition them, and reassemble them all over again. By the time he was pushing out at the 25 minute mark, his army was harder to control than HotS bio Terran. I have no reason to believe that this will be a viable way to play the game at a competitive level, but the Liberator is not some ezmode unit that you mass and win the game. It requires a shit ton of constant attention. If it's too strong when rushed, that is a separate issue that can be solved separately. | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
On October 08 2015 03:17 TimeSpiral wrote: But we like the Liberator. The Liberator is awesome. Novel, unique, fun to use. It's stats might be a bit off, atm, but I think us Terrans are fully bought in to the idea of the Liberator. We all universally dislike the Cyclone, and I think we all secretly know that the Thor sucks--big time. It would be so easy to make the Thor awesome. Give it something cool and fun to use! Liberators are so good at what it does to the point it makes Tanks redundant. Not to mention it's an overpowered unit. It's like Cyclones and Thors overlapping the anti-air role. Last thing we need is Terran having 1000 different ways to do the same things...already the most flexible race that exists. | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
On October 08 2015 02:55 alpenrahm wrote: liquid Iaguz confirmed. A fella can dream. EDIT- For people discussing the Liberator. I don't think the Liberator is imbalanced generally, though it could use a little toning down in it's early game harassment potential. As it stands currently when the Liberator enters Defender mode it gains full vision of the area that it is targeting. I would posit that it does not get this extra vision or perhaps just not as much extra vision, so there's no way a Liberator can shut down a drone line safe from Queen and Spore reprisals. That's just silly. The Cloaked Banshee is for early game harassment and the Liberator has kind of replaced it since it's better, easier and transitions better against Zerg and (probably, haven't tried much early game stuff with it) Protoss. The Liberator is a very scary unit for Protoss but considering how PvT works right now I'm comfortable with Terran having the stronger 200/200 force. It's not an insta win, I've played some fucking strong Protosses who know how to drag a Terran over the hot coals as they try to go across the map and besides that they've got plenty of ways to keep things interesting from start to finish. I haven't made up my mine about Libs in mid-late game TvZ but they seem very map dependant. On a more chokey map like Terraform they seem really scary but on something wider like Ruins of Seras much less so. Dunno. Hard to say. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On October 08 2015 03:32 GinDo wrote: Liberators are effective but, that does mean it's a good unit. For example, Warhounds were SUPER Effective, but really trash units that nobody liked. But the point stands that I think most players are bought-in on the Liberator. Unlike the Cyclone, which Iaguz so rightfully points out, should be scrapped (i.e., replaced). On October 08 2015 03:22 91matt wrote: The liberator, you mean the sky siege tank with mad anti-air splash and insane utility. It's a unit that can win a game simply by finding a spot where there's no overlord and sitting there denying mining for long enough for terran to get an unbeatable advantage. No doubt it's fun to use. It's certainly not fun to play against though. On October 08 2015 03:39 parkufarku wrote: Liberators are so good at what it does to the point it makes Tanks redundant. Not to mention it's an overpowered unit. It's like Cyclones and Thors overlapping the anti-air role. Last thing we need is Terran having 1000 different ways to do the same things...already the most flexible race that exists. Firstly: liberator is not a siege unit, in the very specific sense that it cannot attack structures. So that's one way it is not like a tank. Secondly: liberator's Defender Mode is single-target, with small zone it can attack into. This is another important difference from the tank (the tank being AOE with a large radial range). Thirdly: liberator rush play was nerfed by time and cost. Don't really think that is still an issue. Liberator is an example of a successful new unit, with novel abilities. But the cyclone should probably get the scrap (just like the HERC). | ||
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