• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:55
CEST 06:55
KST 13:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !7Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Tulbo's ASL S21 Ro8 Post-Review Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps? Do we have a pimpest plays list?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread OutLive 25 (RTS Game)
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1728 users

Iaguz: Cyclones, who needs 'em?

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
147 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All

Iaguz: Cyclones, who needs 'em?

Text byBEARDiaguz
Graphics byv1
October 7th, 2015 17:19 GMT

Cyclones, who needs ‘em?


Why does this unit exist?

In developing units for Starcraft there’s two basic/fundamental reasons for a unit to exist. First, a unit’s concept is interesting and fun to use and second, it fills a role or gap in a races’ arsenal in a way that conforms to a race’s design identity. Coming into Legacy of the Void every race is well-rounded so I believe making fun, interesting units is the primary goal. There’s no more strategic roles that need filling, just make units that interact in ways that challenge us somehow. It is my belief that the Cyclone is a failed design and should be scrapped, and I’m gonna tell you why.

In RTS games the ability for a unit to abuse an enemy unit that has shorter range by kiting it is an organic byproduct of design. It informs unit relations and promotes skilful unit usage. Some unit relationships in Starcraft are designed and balanced in such a way as to presume one player will be controlling their units in this manner, eg. Hellions and Reapers vs Zerglings, Stalkers against Marines and Phoenixes against Mutalisks.

But the Cyclone is designed from the outset to be the ultimate kiting machine. Once it locks on it outranges anything short of a deployed Siege tank or a Tempest, assuming it can maintain line of sight, and can theoretically defeat any unit in a 1v1 situation so long as it can maintain that Lock On and remain out of their attack range. If a player were to amass a massive force of Cyclones what’s to stop them running rampant? What sort of downside or weakness do you give a unit like that?

If you make it slow or short sighted then it can’t achieve a full Lock On and its potential is wasted. It risks being easily swarmed by fast low tier units so it can’t be useful early in the game against races that can produce fast basic units, i.e., all of them.

Instead, make it expensive and slow to build then it’s difficult to amass and most people will not bother, especially since if you’re turtling as Terran you’re kinda meant to be making Battlecruisers or something.

Alternatively, give it low DPS over a long period of time and demand it receives a lot of specific attention then you have something that cannot be managed as part of a larger army. Currently it takes 14 seconds for a Lock On to finish. If you want to deal 600 damage to an Ultralisk over a 14 second period during a battle then by the time the Cyclone is finished doing it’s thing, the Ultra has finished its meal of Marauder steak and Marine chips. It’s also poor at defending against enemy air units which can almost always escape the Lock On mostly unscathed, bar the occasional Overlord who decided to take their coffee break deep inside the Terran’s base.

If it can only attack ground, how do you appropriately balance it alongside a race that has Siege Tanks? In a game that’s primarily about ground armies duking it out you cannot have a Terran factory unit that’s superior to Siege tanks at handling ground targets, and due to the introduction of Tankivacs into the game we cannot consider mobility to be that much of an asset. This was something of an issue with the Warhound back in the HotS beta; it was frequently much stronger than the Siege Tank in ground engagements and Mech lost a lot of it’s identity. Simply unacceptable.

If it can attack both air and ground, how do you balance it’s numbers in such a way as to not become oppressive? The Cyclone cannot replace the Siege tank as an anti ground unit and it cannot replace the Viking or Thor as an anti air unit so what is it for? It can’t harass as well as a Medivac, Banshee or Liberator, can’t pick out individual units like Snipe, Yamato cannon or Seeker missile or you’d have a problem. The Cyclone is by design a Jack of all Trades but since it must be a Master of None, it struggles to find relevance in Terran compositions.

I believe this is the essential conundrum with the Cyclone as it exists in the game, since it suffers from a combination of all these issues. Earlier in the beta the Cyclone was actually quite a powerful unit; its Lock On was extremely oppressive to play against right from the start of the game, particularly for Protoss players. Now that it’s been brought into line we can see the issues apparent in its design with clarity.

I don’t think the Cyclone is fun. This is always a hard thing to properly elaborate, it’s not like you can dissect a copy of Starcraft II and see where the Fun is hiding amongst the code. For me, and I’m speaking extremely subjectively here, fun comes in two forms: One is when something feels imbalanced, possibly because it is, like when a quartet of widow mines make a Mutalisk flock or Probe line disappear. Two is that tactile feeling of satisfaction that comes from handling groups of units in an effective and skillful manner, like handling groups of Marauder/Medivac against Protoss or dunking a bunch of Tankivacs within range of something tasty.

And it fails at both of these. Obviously any unit can be powerful and I will admit to a certain giddiness when Protoss were forced to open Phoenixes in the early beta just to draw the game out a bit before their inevitable obliteration. In its current state the cyclone is frustrating to handle, the lock frequently breaks and it deals far too little damage too slowly. Trying to use it as part of a larger army composition is a mug’s game, too much effort for far too little reward. I cannot speak for other Terrans but the lack of a conversation about the Cyclone is quite telling. Nobody is making them, nobody likes them, nobody’s sharing gifs or highlight videos or screenshots about Cyclones on reddit. The considerable buzz that the unit generated in it’s unveiling at Blizzcon last year was impressive but it’s depleted itself now. We’re all about Liberators now!

So, I ask again, why does this unit exist? Well, I believe in the latest patch Blizzard has shown us why. It’s to handle beefy armoured units with it’s Mag-Field Accelerator upgrade, particularly the Ultralisk. And this is a role that it currently fails at quite miserably. BC’s and Carriers will shred Cyclones to pieces while they try to get into initial lock on range and they simply don’t do enough damage to Ultralisks fast enough within a battle and lack the mobility to harass them outside of battles. I have a suspicion the Cyclone is part of Blizzard's recent campaign to try and justify Chitinous Plating making Ultralisks immune to Bio units (Big Snipe and Anti-Armour Drone being the last two ideas implemented, gone unused and swiftly discarded) and it simply isn’t working.

One is generally required to offer a suggestion after a long critique so here goes: Scrap the Cyclone as a forced kiting unit. It’s inorganic, it’s not fun and it’s got more problems than benefits. Perhaps you could give it a simpler, single target focus like the Viper or the Tempest? I’m not really sure, Terran is quite well rounded strategically, but the important thing is that the unit just doesn’t work right now.There’s nothing wrong with admitting the Cyclone was a failure. Most unit concepts never turn out suitable for prime time and that’s ok. Making units for Starcraft is a tricky thing and I guess this is what betas are for. At least Liberators are fun, am I right?



Writer: Iaguz
Graphics: V1
Editors: DarkLordOlli
Facebook Twitter Reddit
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
October 07 2015 17:20 GMT
#2
I should add that I wrote this before the ghost Steady Targeting buff, which does actually make them really good at slaying Ultralisks, and a lot of Zerg units besides.

Oh the risks of writing stuff about a beta.
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
oGoZenob
Profile Joined December 2011
France1503 Posts
October 07 2015 17:29 GMT
#3
this picture is beyond glorious
I like starcraft
CarlosDanger
Profile Joined October 2013
United Kingdom2 Posts
October 07 2015 17:31 GMT
#4
Good point well made.
faulty
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada204 Posts
October 07 2015 17:34 GMT
#5
%100 agreed. I never liked this unit. Looked way too clunky and rushed.
"More gg, more skill" - White-Ra
FruitsPunchSamurai
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom87 Posts
October 07 2015 17:35 GMT
#6
How about splitting it's ground and air attacks, keeping the anti-air attack to function as it currently does while giving it regular ground attacks (stationary when firing)? This would stop the infinite kiting vs early game units while allowing it to fare better against slower air units. Stats for it can be adjusted accordingly.
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
October 07 2015 17:40 GMT
#7
I just want the Viking and Siege Tank Thor be the core. I really love the interaction of 3 of those units. Sadly 2 of them way to overnerfed because the were to dominant in TvT.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10717 Posts
October 07 2015 17:41 GMT
#8
Amazing and I LOVE the picture Iaguz....so boss :D
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
October 07 2015 17:42 GMT
#9
I feel like the moment this unit is useful against a variety of units, it is unfun for at least the other player due to not being engagable. If it isn't useful against a variety of units, it just doesn't serve a proper purpse given its techlevel, costs, production speed.
So far the unit has been hovering between imbalanced (enough range and dps to kite everything to death) and underpowered (not enough damage and dps to kite forever against most opponents). And I think this will just stay a fundamental problem of the unit, at best it can find a place where it is niche-strong against certain early-midgame build orders, but then drops of in usefulness quickly again because the opponent can just react to the acumulation of cyclones.
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3301 Posts
October 07 2015 17:44 GMT
#10
Atrocious unit
T P Z sagi
caznitch
Profile Joined July 2012
Canada645 Posts
October 07 2015 17:47 GMT
#11
Before I even read the article: Best photo ever for an article.
why?
bObA
Profile Joined May 2012
France300 Posts
October 07 2015 17:48 GMT
#12
at the beginning it was pretty good after having removed the herk that was so imba, but now nobody uses it so I agree with him.
But maybe a new terran unit ?
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
October 07 2015 17:48 GMT
#13
iaguz has been on the front page more than almost every pro. probably in the top 5.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
bObA
Profile Joined May 2012
France300 Posts
October 07 2015 17:49 GMT
#14
On October 08 2015 02:47 caznitch wrote:
Before I even read the article: Best photo ever for an article.


yea agree lol ! Jim Iaguz !!!
Wrath
Profile Blog Joined July 2014
3174 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-07 17:52:40
October 07 2015 17:52 GMT
#15
They suck at AA department. The entire lockdown is horrible. Just make it into Goliath 2.0 to be super AA ground unit from factory with weak AG.
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-07 18:01:12
October 07 2015 17:53 GMT
#16
Coming into Legacy of the Void every race is well-rounded so I believe making fun


How can we know if every race is well rounded or not if we don't know what gaps mech has against Protoss? Y'know, because mech isn't usable against Protoss?

This isn't a knock on Iaguz's article, it just seems circuitous to suggest that a race doesn't need any more units because nobody wants that race to do new things.
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
Phaenoman
Profile Joined February 2013
568 Posts
October 07 2015 17:53 GMT
#17
Dude that picture is distracting me from reading this article loooool. <3
Random is hard work dude...
BamBam
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
745 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-07 17:55:05
October 07 2015 17:54 GMT
#18
Heres a question for you, say that everything you just wrote about was right, and blizzard is on board with the idea of scrapping the unit entirely. What would you replace it with?

I cannot think of any infantry-based unit that terran needs since all respective roles are filled, nor can I think of any starport units with the addition of the liberator and the buff to BC's to warp anywhere.

The only place left to really add a unit would be the factory, but now you're looking at a unit to add that doesn't impede on the siege tank's crowd control or the thor's anti air/single target damage. Arguably all you're left with is a spellcaster slot in place of the cyclone to do... what exactly? Terran already has the best defensive options so you're left with an offensive spellcaster thats mech oriented which cannot directly control engagements else risk being massed instead of a siege tank.
"two is way better than twice as one" - artosis
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
October 07 2015 17:55 GMT
#19
liquid Iaguz confirmed.
91matt
Profile Joined March 2013
United Kingdom147 Posts
October 07 2015 17:58 GMT
#20
they should remove the liberator and cyclone and put in the goliath
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2026 GSL S1: Ro8 Group A
EnkiAlexander 66
Liquipedia
OSC
22:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #19
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 57
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea.KH 67
yabsab 20
Noble 12
Icarus 6
ZergMaN 4
Dota 2
monkeys_forever482
NeuroSwarm309
League of Legends
JimRising 682
Counter-Strike
Doublelift1631
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1092
Other Games
summit1g6603
C9.Mang0591
WinterStarcraft464
ViBE110
RuFF_SC2106
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL2257
Other Games
gamesdonequick2127
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki24
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo959
• Stunt324
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
5h 5m
RSL Revival
5h 5m
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
6h 5m
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
SC Evo League
8h 5m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
10h 5m
BSL
14h 5m
Artosis vs TerrOr
spx vs StRyKeR
Replay Cast
19h 5m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 5h
RSL Revival
1d 5h
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
1d 6h
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 14h
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soma vs Leta
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W6
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.