• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 21:47
CET 03:47
KST 11:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book15Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0218LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)22Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker10PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)13
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Terran Scanner Sweep Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Revival: Season 4 Korea Qualifier (Feb 14) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth Mutation # 510 Safety Violation
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea Which units you wish saw more use in the game? ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 Liquipedia.net NEEDS editors for Brood War
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Diablo 2 thread Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ADHD And Gaming Addiction…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1881 users

Iaguz: Cyclones, who needs 'em? - Page 8

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
147 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 All
YyapSsap
Profile Joined September 2010
New Zealand1511 Posts
October 09 2015 22:30 GMT
#141
Nice article and nice picture.

Its quite frustrating to see how everything is turning out to be (a cluster f*** of unit design) especially when you see how the design has evolved from its predecessor.

In BW, factory units consisted of the vulture, tank and goliath. The vulture would be the fast unit which occupied several key roles like being meatshields for the tanks, zoning space via mini nukes and harass. The tank is the core ground firepower for the mech army but is very immobile. Goliaths provide the essential AA (instead of having to get air units) and were easily accessible. The beautiful thing about these three units was that the factory could stand on its own and depending on the enemy composition, all one had to do was adjust the ratio of the 3 as the game went along.

In HOTS, we get widow mines, hellions, tanks and thors. Widow mines overlap with siege tanks plus they also hit air. Hellions while being able to harass and be meatshields ala hellbats don't quite zone space (spider mines imo was one of the most important pieces for an mech army as it covered up immobility weakness). Siege tanks don't have enough firepower yet they cost more and take up more supply (plus a million hard counters). Thors are too clumsy and mineral intensive to provide a solid AA option requiring need for starport units ala viking. Unlike its predecessor the factory units NEED the support from starport based units. One cannot just adjust the ratio between the 4 to take on different type of enemy composition. Needless to say, the factory units here act better as support units.

Now in LOTV, we get two more additional units in the form of the liberator and cyclones. Liberators are literally a flying thor with siege mode for AtG. Cyclones on the other hand I have no idea what role they are trying to fill (Plus the lock on ability just doesnt fit in the world of SC). What are the purpose of these two units? Why not just take out the siege tank and have the liberator only because the way I see it, they've combined two units that somewhat get rid of each others weakness e.g. can get only attacked by air units so one can't just mass zealots say in TvP against a liberator line and ignores terrain and is fast unlike a thor.

Its a complete mess. From a perfect harmony of 3 well thought out units to 4 units that is less efficient at the same task at hand into 2 additional units that make others redundant or don't have any real advantage as into why they are there in the first place.

Imo all they had to do was the following:
-Replace thors with cheaper more accessible GtA AA option. Be it a goliath or something idm because it takes far too long and far too many resources to get thors only to get tech switched or magic boxed. Not only that but they are very slow. This also means that you won't get viking vs viking wars because I can go with a ground unit to offset that air advantage**.
-Tanks need to be lower supply/cost less or simply do more damage to certain types e.g. massive/light or shields. Especially against protoss. I think this has been spoken out for the past 5 years.
-Hellions/hellbats are somewhat ok but i always liked the idea of hellions with abilities to drop flaming bettys (forgot the TL user who suggested this idea) to zone space or add more to the meat shielding because the transformation between one type to another is so cumbersome.

**I really dont like how they are putting TOO much emphasis on air units especially AtG options at each races disposal. Air units are far too powerful throughout this game without the proper ground AA units. The air vs ground dynamic is too onesided imo and there was a reason why most AtG attacks were pitiful in BW other than capital ships..

deth
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Australia1757 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-09 22:31:34
October 09 2015 22:31 GMT
#142
On October 10 2015 06:25 Ovid wrote:
Well this backfired horribly.


Blizzard didn't make the current balance iteration based on a day of testing after this thread being posted to the community feedback update. It hasn't backfired, it has generated valuable discussion.
deth
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Australia1757 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-09 22:46:27
October 09 2015 22:31 GMT
#143
double post delete MODS
Weavel
Profile Joined January 2010
Finland9221 Posts
October 10 2015 17:07 GMT
#144
I love cyclones such a fun unit to open the game. You can really use the insane range later on too.
Life/Seed//Mvp/NaNiwa fighting! ZeNEX forever!
chaos~
Profile Joined October 2011
United States13 Posts
October 12 2015 01:17 GMT
#145
pic so awesome, iaguz is right its a stupid unit and should be scraped
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
October 12 2015 02:57 GMT
#146
When does Iaguz gets picked up by TL?


that Iaguz artwork is beyond glorious.
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
KT_Elwood
Profile Joined July 2015
Germany1112 Posts
October 15 2015 07:05 GMT
#147
you will need them to destroy super fucking OP ZERG/Protoss lategame.

Broodlord Viper can go against any ANTI-AIR.
Same goes for carriers + stasis bomb
"First he eats our dogs, and then he taxes the penguins... Donald Trump truly is the Donald Trump of our generation. " -DPB
Reylight
Profile Joined September 2015
18 Posts
October 15 2015 08:17 GMT
#148
On October 12 2015 11:57 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
When does Iaguz gets picked up by TL?


that Iaguz artwork is beyond glorious.


When he is good, then maybe

User was warned for this post
Prev 1 6 7 8 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiG Sty Festival
00:40
Final Tiebreaker Qualifier
Creator vs Nicoract
TBD vs YoungYakov
PiGStarcraft486
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft486
RuFF_SC2 112
SteadfastSC 101
PiLiPiLi 33
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 62
Noble 35
Dota 2
monkeys_forever88
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
taco 485
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0509
Mew2King167
Other Games
tarik_tv16051
summit1g9636
JimRising 481
ToD168
ViBE68
ZombieGrub27
JuggernautJason14
minikerr8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick828
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 13
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 91
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• sM.Zik 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21094
League of Legends
• Scarra2073
• Stunt285
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
14m
RSL Revival
5h 14m
LiuLi Cup
8h 14m
Cure vs Reynor
Clem vs Maru
Rogue vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Serral
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
9h 14m
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
14h 9m
RSL Revival
15h 14m
AI Arena Tournament
17h 14m
Replay Cast
21h 14m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 7h
LiuLi Cup
1d 8h
[ Show More ]
Ladder Legends
1d 15h
Replay Cast
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.