|
On October 03 2015 09:01 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 08:37 Big J wrote:On October 03 2015 08:33 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Adept upgrade which reduces attack period by 45%
Just to make it make more sense, the Adept dps has increased by +81%
Workers are going to die a lot lot faster now.
A quick purely mathematical comparison devoid of context.
HP reduced to 0.65 of former level.
DPS increased to 1.81 of previous level.
Multiply and square root = 1.09
Adept is 9% buffed in a "straight" combat. No, it's buffed by 45.045045045045...%, the exact amount they buffed the attack cooldown. How do you even get to 81%? Eh, Blizzard can't even describe their own changes properly. The attack period wasn't reduced by 45% as was written. "Adept upgrade which reduces attack period by 45%" is not the same thing as "45% increase in attack speed". Two completely different things  Silly silly Blizzard. Makes you wonder how incompetent whoever it is that wrote the update is. Anyhow Adept is nerfed by 3% in a straight fight, devoid of context. Amazing Nerf. It's pretty much a buff if you consider how much point damage the adept does.
you missed the opportunity cost of the damage buff versus the shield buff that was there previously
also you missed the fact that hit points are more valuable than shields
|
OMG THANK YOU BLIZZARD
Adept attack period upgrade is exactly what this unit needed to scale in the late game... I think.....
Let's see how it plays out.
|
Aaaand the zerg economy got out of control... Or my macro is worse than normal (which is possible).
Seems to me that Protoss is suffering the macro changes much more than zerg.
And we need to be patient. Blizzard already said they will release updates faster from now on.
|
On October 03 2015 09:01 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 08:37 Big J wrote:On October 03 2015 08:33 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Adept upgrade which reduces attack period by 45%
Just to make it make more sense, the Adept dps has increased by +81%
Workers are going to die a lot lot faster now.
A quick purely mathematical comparison devoid of context.
HP reduced to 0.65 of former level.
DPS increased to 1.81 of previous level.
Multiply and square root = 1.09
Adept is 9% buffed in a "straight" combat. No, it's buffed by 45.045045045045...%, the exact amount they buffed the attack cooldown. How do you even get to 81%? Eh, Blizzard can't even describe their own changes properly. The attack period wasn't reduced by 45% as was written. "Adept upgrade which reduces attack period by 45%" is not the same thing as "45% increase in attack speed". Two completely different things Silly silly Blizzard. Makes you wonder how incompetent whoever it is that wrote the update is. Anyhow Adept is nerfed by 3% in a straight fight, devoid of context. Amazing Nerf. It's pretty much a buff if you consider how much point damage the adept does.
I don't quite understand what you are arguing. The upgrade reduces the attack cooldown from 1,61 to 1,11.
1,61/1,11=1,45, i.e. the upgrade gives a 45% decrease in attack cooldown. Which is equivalent to saying the unit attacks at 1,45 times the speed as before, i.e. 45% increased attack speed.
Unless I'm terribly mistaken on something, attack period decrease by some % is the exact same as attack speed increase by the same %.
Edit: Ah yeah, obviously I'm with stupid. 
It's getting late here
|
^^Attack period reduced by 45% => the new attack period is 1-.45 = .55 of the old one, or 1/.55 = 1.818 times the attack speed. Which isn't the case, the attack speed was increased by 45%.
It's just sloppy wording on Blizzard's part.
|
does anybody know where this larva/zerg nerf came from..? i've never once in the games history heard anyone even conceive of tweaking the number of larva from injects or there being too much xD i'm wtf
looks like they are trying to slow down the econ potential for all races but in the case of protoss and zerg the nerf hits the whole race..? where as for T it's just the mule/econ itself..
|
On October 03 2015 09:17 Athenau wrote:
^^Attack period reduced by 45% => the new attack period is 1-.45 = .55 of the old one, or 1/.55 = 1.818 times the attack speed. Which isn't the case, the attack speed was increased by 45%.
It's just sloppy wording on Blizzard's part.
Edit: I'm retarded
Difference of 1 -> .55 rather than 1 -> 1.45 is so obvious jesus christ
|
Anyhow Adept is nerfed by 3% in a straight fight, devoid of context. Amazing Nerf.
Yes after the upgrade it get nerfed by 3% that means in mid/late game where the adept started to become less and less effectiv so the goal of the upgrade is not matched.
At least they nerfed adept early game and that was the point. They get rekt by speedling before attack upgrade now
|
what the heck does return rate multiplier mean? Shouldn't it go down, not up if they are nerfing it?
|
CB is just not as important for Protoss as MULE for Terran or SL for Zerg. Protoss has an advantage in this patch. Zerg got hit heavily, Terran are meh.
|
I think people have warped ideas about the macro mechanics and devalue their contributions to the overall rate of the races' progression throughout a game.
CB is significant early game with a 22.5% increase in the production of workers, alongside the fact that protoss doesn't need to sacrifice much mining time to produce structures. It remains vital throughout tech transitions, upgrades and late game production of capital ships etc. CB is nerfed by 33%.
Mule is the lifeblood of terran to help them keep up or get ahead in economy considering a linear production rate of workers and having to sacrifice mining time to produce structures, as well as having very expensive mineral-heavy bio forces. Mule is nerfed by 33%.
Spawn larvae is the cornerstone of zerg production, allowing them to switch army composition and replenish workers quickly. SL is nerfed by 25%.
One of these things is not like the others. Zerg got hit the least overall with these changes. Zerg may need a few more tweaks with macro mechanics or the rate of spawning larvae, and I'm sure any issues will begin to be highlighted over the next week.
|
On October 03 2015 09:20 Lumi wrote:
does anybody know where this larva/zerg nerf came from..? i've never once in the games history heard anyone even conceive of tweaking the number of larva from injects or there being too much xD i'm wtf
looks like they are trying to slow down the econ potential for all races but in the case of protoss and zerg the nerf hits the whole race..? where as for T it's just the mule/econ itself..
This is the third time it's been suggested in the beta. And many have suggested it because the current iteration gives increased volatility. I think it's an amazing change to reduce that. Four is way too much at once.
|
On October 03 2015 10:28 deth wrote:
I think people have warped ideas about the macro mechanics and devalue their contributions to the overall rate of the races' progression throughout a game.
CB is significant early game with a 22.5% increase in the production of workers, alongside the fact that protoss doesn't need to sacrifice much mining time to produce structures. It remains vital throughout tech transitions, upgrades and late game production of capital ships etc. CB is nerfed by 33%.
Mule is the lifeblood of terran to help them keep up or get ahead in economy considering a linear production rate of workers and having to sacrifice mining time to produce structures, as well as having very expensive mineral-heavy bio forces. Mule is nerfed by 33%.
Spawn larvae is the cornerstone of zerg production, allowing them to switch army composition and replenish workers quickly. SL is nerfed by 25%.
One of these things is not like the others. Zerg got hit the least overall with these changes. Zerg may need a few more tweaks with macro mechanics or the rate of spawning larvae, and I'm sure any issues will begin to be highlighted over the next week.
A 7 percent decrease in the speed of worker production through the early game is virtually nothing compared to the changes in the macro mechanics for Terran and Zerg. It amounts to about 2 slower workers at the point you're at 40 workers.
|
On October 03 2015 10:32 crazedrat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 10:28 deth wrote:
I think people have warped ideas about the macro mechanics and devalue their contributions to the overall rate of the races' progression throughout a game.
CB is significant early game with a 22.5% increase in the production of workers, alongside the fact that protoss doesn't need to sacrifice much mining time to produce structures. It remains vital throughout tech transitions, upgrades and late game production of capital ships etc. CB is nerfed by 33%.
Mule is the lifeblood of terran to help them keep up or get ahead in economy considering a linear production rate of workers and having to sacrifice mining time to produce structures, as well as having very expensive mineral-heavy bio forces. Mule is nerfed by 33%.
Spawn larvae is the cornerstone of zerg production, allowing them to switch army composition and replenish workers quickly. SL is nerfed by 25%.
One of these things is not like the others. Zerg got hit the least overall with these changes. Zerg may need a few more tweaks with macro mechanics or the rate of spawning larvae, and I'm sure any issues will begin to be highlighted over the next week. A 7 percent decrease in the speed of worker production through the early game is virtually nothing compared to the changes in the macro mechanics for Terran and Zerg. It amounts to about 2 slower workers at the point you're at 40 workers.
No, the change is significant.
|
On October 03 2015 10:32 crazedrat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 10:28 deth wrote:
I think people have warped ideas about the macro mechanics and devalue their contributions to the overall rate of the races' progression throughout a game.
CB is significant early game with a 22.5% increase in the production of workers, alongside the fact that protoss doesn't need to sacrifice much mining time to produce structures. It remains vital throughout tech transitions, upgrades and late game production of capital ships etc. CB is nerfed by 33%.
Mule is the lifeblood of terran to help them keep up or get ahead in economy considering a linear production rate of workers and having to sacrifice mining time to produce structures, as well as having very expensive mineral-heavy bio forces. Mule is nerfed by 33%.
Spawn larvae is the cornerstone of zerg production, allowing them to switch army composition and replenish workers quickly. SL is nerfed by 25%.
One of these things is not like the others. Zerg got hit the least overall with these changes. Zerg may need a few more tweaks with macro mechanics or the rate of spawning larvae, and I'm sure any issues will begin to be highlighted over the next week. A 7 percent decrease in the speed of worker production through the early game is virtually nothing compared to the changes in the macro mechanics for Terran and Zerg. It amounts to about 2 slower workers at the point you're at 40 workers.
The races have very different identities. Protoss units are much more powerful and cost-effective as the other races. CB also serves to allow Protoss to get away with building less infrastructure and production facilities, as well as hit timings to exploit weakness.
If we look at the spell as a purely macro-focused mechanic, then you're absolutely right. It's far more complex than that and I think people would do well to remember that.
|
Just played a few games with the new adept. It's noticeably a lot less beefy now, and seems to be quite a significant nerf to the unit in the very early game. The new upgrade does do a lot, although in the games I've played i was too far behind for it to make a significant impact. But it definitely took a huge hit towards its tanking power, both with the nerf of its base stats and the lack of the shield upgrade now.
Chrono boost is also noticeable weaker now, will take some time to get use to.
Small nitpick, they changed the hotkey for the new adept upgrade to A, while the old one was S. Is there really any reason to do this apart from ruin all that muscle memory from the last 2 weeks?
|
On October 03 2015 10:37 deth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 10:32 crazedrat wrote:On October 03 2015 10:28 deth wrote:
I think people have warped ideas about the macro mechanics and devalue their contributions to the overall rate of the races' progression throughout a game.
CB is significant early game with a 22.5% increase in the production of workers, alongside the fact that protoss doesn't need to sacrifice much mining time to produce structures. It remains vital throughout tech transitions, upgrades and late game production of capital ships etc. CB is nerfed by 33%.
Mule is the lifeblood of terran to help them keep up or get ahead in economy considering a linear production rate of workers and having to sacrifice mining time to produce structures, as well as having very expensive mineral-heavy bio forces. Mule is nerfed by 33%.
Spawn larvae is the cornerstone of zerg production, allowing them to switch army composition and replenish workers quickly. SL is nerfed by 25%.
One of these things is not like the others. Zerg got hit the least overall with these changes. Zerg may need a few more tweaks with macro mechanics or the rate of spawning larvae, and I'm sure any issues will begin to be highlighted over the next week. A 7 percent decrease in the speed of worker production through the early game is virtually nothing compared to the changes in the macro mechanics for Terran and Zerg. It amounts to about 2 slower workers at the point you're at 40 workers. The races have very different identities. Protoss units are much more powerful and cost-effective as the other races. CB also serves to allow Protoss to get away with building less infrastructure and production facilities, as well as hit timings to exploit weakness. If we look at the spell as a purely macro-focused mechanic, then you're absolutely right. It's far more complex than that and I think people would do well to remember that.
All protoss timings remain in tact and their economy hardly suffers at all.
|
On October 03 2015 10:53 crazedrat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 10:37 deth wrote:On October 03 2015 10:32 crazedrat wrote:On October 03 2015 10:28 deth wrote:
I think people have warped ideas about the macro mechanics and devalue their contributions to the overall rate of the races' progression throughout a game.
CB is significant early game with a 22.5% increase in the production of workers, alongside the fact that protoss doesn't need to sacrifice much mining time to produce structures. It remains vital throughout tech transitions, upgrades and late game production of capital ships etc. CB is nerfed by 33%.
Mule is the lifeblood of terran to help them keep up or get ahead in economy considering a linear production rate of workers and having to sacrifice mining time to produce structures, as well as having very expensive mineral-heavy bio forces. Mule is nerfed by 33%.
Spawn larvae is the cornerstone of zerg production, allowing them to switch army composition and replenish workers quickly. SL is nerfed by 25%.
One of these things is not like the others. Zerg got hit the least overall with these changes. Zerg may need a few more tweaks with macro mechanics or the rate of spawning larvae, and I'm sure any issues will begin to be highlighted over the next week. A 7 percent decrease in the speed of worker production through the early game is virtually nothing compared to the changes in the macro mechanics for Terran and Zerg. It amounts to about 2 slower workers at the point you're at 40 workers. The races have very different identities. Protoss units are much more powerful and cost-effective as the other races. CB also serves to allow Protoss to get away with building less infrastructure and production facilities, as well as hit timings to exploit weakness. If we look at the spell as a purely macro-focused mechanic, then you're absolutely right. It's far more complex than that and I think people would do well to remember that. All protoss timings remain in tact and their economy hardly suffers at all.
How many games did you play as Protoss?
|
Just look at the math.
On October 03 2015 10:28 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 09:20 Lumi wrote:
does anybody know where this larva/zerg nerf came from..? i've never once in the games history heard anyone even conceive of tweaking the number of larva from injects or there being too much xD i'm wtf
looks like they are trying to slow down the econ potential for all races but in the case of protoss and zerg the nerf hits the whole race..? where as for T it's just the mule/econ itself.. This is the third time it's been suggested in the beta. And many have suggested it because the current iteration gives increased volatility. I think it's an amazing change to reduce that. Four is way too much at once.
And now I can't go early pool. I have a boring race which I am not that interested in playing. I'm not being dramatic either. What is so bad about volatility? The only place you feel it is in ZvZ or lower leagues. I can't play the way I want to now. I have to go hatch 1st, it's the same streamlined game. Boring. B-o-r-i-n.g.
|
The adept "nerf" doesn't solves early game issues , hell, it exacerbates it .
I don't get it, why blizzard is so stubborn keeping this Warhound 2.0 unit in the game , and now they give it almost a 50% attack speed increase ?!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
