LotV Beta Balance Update -- October 2 - Page 2

pretty nice changes overall, I wonder if this is enough for the adept, as right now the adept is the only strong things protoss has, also I hope the do more changes to the raven, its abilities are pretty shitty right now.

Magnifico

1958 Posts

October 02 2015 22:31 GMT

#24

I played five games. The macro changes are really slowing down the game.

NarutO

Germany18839 Posts

October 02 2015 22:32 GMT

#25

The adepts are still pretty much winning in PvT - warpprism adept or allins are insanely hard to hold - not being able to hold with being ahead or even at all on certain maps if you ask me.

Also yeah - you can really tell the lack of minerals due to the new mule D;

Jer99

Canada8159 Posts

October 02 2015 22:34 GMT

#26

On October 03 2015 07:32 NarutO wrote:
The adepts are still pretty much winning in PvT - warpprism adept or allins are insanely hard to hold - not being able to hold with being ahead or even at all on certain maps if you ask me.

Also yeah - you can really tell the lack of minerals due to the new mule D;

how do you feel about siege tanks in TvP? I've had a lot of success with them, but i haven't faced any adept with warp prism builds yet

Grusalugg

20 Posts

October 02 2015 22:35 GMT

#27

Correction:

Health reduction of Adepts' is 90/90 to 60/90, not 90/90 to 90/60.

Lexender

Mexico2654 Posts

October 02 2015 22:40 GMT

#28

On October 03 2015 07:34 Jer99 wrote:

Show nested quote +

how do you feel about siege tanks in TvP? I've had a lot of success with them, but i haven't faced any adept with warp prism builds yet

Wouldn't they just teleport under the tank?

Jer99

Canada8159 Posts

October 02 2015 22:41 GMT

#29

On October 03 2015 07:40 Lexender wrote:

Show nested quote +

Wouldn't they just teleport under the tank?

with medivac*

Jer99

Canada8159 Posts

October 02 2015 22:43 GMT

#30

On October 03 2015 07:35 Grusalugg wrote:
Correction:

Health reduction of Adepts' is 90/90 to 60/90, not 90/90 to 90/60.

True that, rather than health as the source implies, it's shields that were reduced by 30

NarutO

Germany18839 Posts

October 02 2015 22:44 GMT

#31

On October 03 2015 07:34 Jer99 wrote:

Show nested quote +

how do you feel about siege tanks in TvP? I've had a lot of success with them, but i haven't faced any adept with warp prism builds yet

I dont even feel like there is no counter play to what Protoss can do - the problem is that every build needs a different counterplay. At least thats what I feel like. White-rA for example does 3 Gate adept proxy robo - I tried 3 rax ghost/marine - I tried reactormarine siegetank - I couldnt hold in either case. I have held adept builds 1 base and 2 base but in no situation I have been ahead seemingly.

Also even if you hold it - its so little commitment and photon overcharge and adept warpins would always prevent counter aggressinon. That in mind - it could be dts, blink stalkers which are very good as well (still) oracles and every otehr kind of shit. I feel like I have to be very defensive allowing the protoss to either be very greedy which leeds to a midgame I cannot attack OR I suffer from Protoss aggression.

I really dont LIKE to whine but I see no way on being even or ahead after defending such builds. If you have any suggestions I will gladly try them out .

pure.Wasted

Canada4701 Posts

October 02 2015 22:52 GMT

#32

DinoMight wrote an excellent blog post about the nefarious consequences of having the Adept in the game in this state.

Blizzard quite obviously shot themselves in the foot by keeping the unit unnerfed this long into the beta, because as DinoMight points out, the Adept being as strong as it is has created the illusion that TvP is more or less balanced. It'll only take until the first Code S of the next season to see that nothing could be further from the truth.

And then what?

How is Blizzard supposed to nerf this unit into something remotely approaching reasonable, without completely trashing Protoss's ability to have map presence in the early game?

Protoss needs buffs but there's nothing fundamental to buff. Zealots are as strong as an A+move unit has any right to be. Stalkers can't be buffed or it's 2014 all over again. MSC can't be buffed because it's loathsome and abhorrent and in fact needs nerfing. That leaves... Sentries? I mean, there's literally nothing else, unless they wise up and start CHANGING instead of buffing and nerfing.

Beastyqt

Serbia516 Posts

October 02 2015 22:54 GMT

#33

Terran again gets fucked over for economy, while Zerg loses a bit of unit production that can be supplemented in the late game by making more hatcheries and that doesn't affect early game as much as this patch affects Terran ;;

I wonder when will Blizzard realize "macro mechanics" for Zerg, Terran and Protoss are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and you can't buff and nerf all 3 of them at same time because they are completely different things...sigh.

pure.Wasted

Canada4701 Posts

October 02 2015 22:58 GMT

#34

I'm confused about Blizzard's intentions with the Ghost ability.

The snipe "delay" obviously exists to create some form of counterplay. But what sort of counterplay is a Zerg supposed to pull off in the allotted 1.5 seconds? What are the chances you'll have a spotter AND a Zergling available within 1.5 seconds of movement + attack of that Ghost, never mind actually pulling off the micro.

Do they still intend for counterplay to exist? If yes, is that actually reasonable? If no, why keep the ability as is at all?

owlman

France58 Posts

October 02 2015 22:59 GMT

#35

I wonder when will Blizzard realize "macro mechanics" for Zerg, Terran and Protoss are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and you can't buff and nerf all 3 of them at same time because they are completely different things...sigh.

Yeah definitely ...
A simple example : nerfing chronoboost weaken protoss defense against early rush like early pools, proxy gates, proxy barracks, photon canons ... but it doesn't affect other race at that stage of the game

Spyridon

United States997 Posts

October 02 2015 22:59 GMT

#36

On October 03 2015 07:54 Beastyqt wrote:
Terran again gets fucked over for economy, while Zerg loses a bit of unit production that can be supplemented in the late game by making more hatcheries and that doesn't affect early game as much as this patch affects Terran ;;

I wonder when will Blizzard realize "macro mechanics" for Zerg, Terran and Protoss are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and you can't buff and nerf all 3 of them at same time because they are completely different things...sigh.

Zerg is in the worst state of beta atm so while I do think they need some sort of buff, I would not be opposed to removing more drones from spawn larvae. 2 I think sounds about right on paper imo.

I always thought it's silly that Zerg gets more production from 1 queen than they do from a macro hatch... and right now it is pretty much equal. IMO a macro hatch should reward more eggs than a queen, not just for the higher price, but the fact that the eggs need to be used up immediately and can not be pooled so you need to stay on top of using them.

TheWinks

United States572 Posts

October 02 2015 23:02 GMT

#37

On October 03 2015 07:58 pure.Wasted wrote:
I'm confused about Blizzard's intentions with the Ghost ability.

The snipe "delay" obviously exists to create some form of counterplay. But what sort of counterplay is a Zerg supposed to pull off in the allotted 1.5 seconds? What are the chances you'll have a spotter AND a Zergling available within 1.5 seconds of movement + attack of that Ghost, never mind actually pulling off the micro.

Do they still intend for counterplay to exist? If yes, is that actually reasonable? If no, why keep the ability as is at all?

It's never been about specific micro to cancel ghosts in a big battle, just that you can't have a bunch of ghosts spamming it because so many will take incidental damage and have it canceled.

TelecoM

United States10682 Posts

October 02 2015 23:02 GMT

#38

They really need to remove all macro mechanics and balance the game around that, best state of the game we ever had was when there were no macro mechanics!

[PkF] Wire

France24233 Posts

October 02 2015 23:03 GMT

#39

That patch calls for others, but I think it's a fair beginning. Let's hope they're quick on balancing in the upcoming weeks so that we get a playable end product.

Spyridon

United States997 Posts

October 02 2015 23:09 GMT

#40

On October 03 2015 08:02 GGzerG wrote:
They really need to remove all macro mechanics and balance the game around that, best state of the game we ever had was when there were no macro mechanics!

Agreed... but that is off the table now sadly according to Blizzard...

I guess this is the best we will get.

Even though I am Zerg, I actually still hope they remove the importance of spawn larvae by making it 3>2 larvae. I know queens are important for early game with the current SC2 balance, but for late game I always thought macro hatch's felt much better/natural.

But who am I kidding. Theres like a 90% chance that Blizzard will revert this back to HotS mechanics anyway, with the reason being something that affects only 1 of the races (just like they did when mechanics were removed before and Terran were unable to function without further rebalances), so the entire game will suffer because they do not want to fix problems with specific races design...

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