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On October 03 2015 07:07 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
They still haven't solved stinker units like Thor, Cyclone, Infestor, Swarm Host, and arguably Void Ray. There are going to be some legacy junk units still in the queues but left unbuilt come release.
i really dont see a problem with that as long as the the units that are viable are balanced and fun to use, having a bunch of 100% junk tech trees or units in bw didn't hurt it at all
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MULEs used to mine 270 minerals, now how much do they mine?
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On October 03 2015 08:14 ZAiNs wrote:
MULEs used to mine 270 minerals, now how much do they mine?
180
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On October 03 2015 08:15 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 08:14 ZAiNs wrote:
MULEs used to mine 270 minerals, now how much do they mine? 180
Holy shit. Terrans are already on the back foot economically in TvP because of the power of Adepts.
In what universe is directly hurting Terran economy the sensible next step?
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It's weird that they attempt to turn the macro mechanic knobs at the same amounts instead of considering their effects independently.
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On October 03 2015 08:23 TheWinks wrote:
It's weird that they attempt to turn the macro mechanic knobs at the same amounts instead of considering their effects independently.
What's even more "weird" is that you'd think they learned this lesson the first time they tried this a few weeks ago.
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Adept upgrade which reduces attack period by 45%
Just to make it make more sense, the Adept dps has increased by +81%
Workers are going to die a lot lot faster now.
A quick purely mathematical comparison devoid of context.
HP reduced to 0.65 of former level.
DPS increased to 1.81 of previous level.
Multiply and square root = 1.09
Adept is 9% buffed in a "straight" combat.
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On October 03 2015 08:33 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
A quick purely mathematical comparison devoid of context.
HP reduced to 0.65 of former level.
DPS increased to 1.81 of previous level.
Multiply and square root = 1.09
Adept is 9% buffed in a "straight" combat.
Why would you calculate HP independent of shields? Adept survivability was nerfed by ~17%, not 35%.
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On October 03 2015 08:33 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Adept upgrade which reduces attack period by 45%
Just to make it make more sense, the Adept dps has increased by +81%
Workers are going to die a lot lot faster now.
A quick purely mathematical comparison devoid of context.
HP reduced to 0.65 of former level.
DPS increased to 1.81 of previous level.
Multiply and square root = 1.09
Adept is 9% buffed in a "straight" combat.
No, it's buffed by 45.045045045045...%, the exact amount they buffed the attack cooldown. How do you even get to 81%?
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On October 03 2015 08:02 GGzerG wrote:
They really need to remove all macro mechanics and balance the game around that, best state of the game we ever had was when there were no macro mechanics!
Best state of the game ever, minus the need for a complete overhaul of the cost and design of the entire terran race.
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Another week i will play LoL instead of SC2 because of liberators, thanks blizzard.
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On October 03 2015 08:20 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 08:15 TheWinks wrote:On October 03 2015 08:14 ZAiNs wrote:
MULEs used to mine 270 minerals, now how much do they mine? 180 Holy shit. Terrans are already on the back foot economically in TvP because of the power of Adepts. In what universe is directly hurting Terran economy the sensible next step?
That sounds more like a balance issue with adepts rather than a global economy issue for terran...
For harassment to not be game-ending, and scouting to be more reasonable, the economy NEEDS to be slowed down.
They just need to tweak all 3 races so their economies are on equal footing AS WELL as rebalancing the units... And sadly they are probably too lazy to do that, so this will all be revert to hots in a week or 2...
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On October 03 2015 08:33 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Adept upgrade which reduces attack period by 45%
Just to make it make more sense, the Adept dps has increased by +81%
Workers are going to die a lot lot faster now.
Is Liquipedia wrong? It says on the sidebar that it's a 45% dps increase. (6.2 to 9)
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Adept
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On October 03 2015 08:40 Spyridon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 08:20 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 03 2015 08:15 TheWinks wrote:On October 03 2015 08:14 ZAiNs wrote:
MULEs used to mine 270 minerals, now how much do they mine? 180 Holy shit. Terrans are already on the back foot economically in TvP because of the power of Adepts. In what universe is directly hurting Terran economy the sensible next step? That sounds more like a balance issue with adepts rather than a global economy issue for terran...
If Terran economy in early and midgame is overpowered vZ and v(hypothetically balanced)P, you're right, but if that's Blizzard's thought process then I'd love to hear what made them think Terran economy is indeed too strong. That's the sort of conclusion you can only come to after closely analyzing some statistics.
There's no stats mentioned anywhere in yesterday's or today's posts, though. It sounds a lot more like their reasoning was "we hate macro mechanics whee!"
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On October 03 2015 08:10 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 07:07 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
They still haven't solved stinker units like Thor, Cyclone, Infestor, Swarm Host, and arguably Void Ray. There are going to be some legacy junk units still in the queues but left unbuilt come release. i really dont see a problem with that as long as the the units that are viable are balanced and fun to use, having a bunch of 100% junk tech trees or units in bw didn't hurt it at all
Moreover, if there are a few units no one uses, someone finding a use for them in one game will create excitement and room for innovation.
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Aw, i liked adepts actually formed some sort of tanky unit for toss  , i don't want more dmg output i want survivability.
Lurkers will shred these new adepts.
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Mexico2170 Posts
Does anyone else finds the new chronobost actually harder to use than the old one? Becuase it's automatic you kinda forget about it and sometimes you keept it at, idk, your forge when you aren't researching anymore or stuff like that. I guess I need to get used to it, but I would still prefer the old one.
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On October 03 2015 07:52 pure.Wasted wrote:DinoMight wrote an excellent blog post about the nefarious consequences of having the Adept in the game in this state. Blizzard quite obviously shot themselves in the foot by keeping the unit unnerfed this long into the beta, because as DinoMight points out, the Adept being as strong as it is has created the illusion that TvP is more or less balanced. It'll only take until the first Code S of the next season to see that nothing could be further from the truth. And then what? How is Blizzard supposed to nerf this unit into something remotely approaching reasonable, without completely trashing Protoss's ability to have map presence in the early game? Protoss needs buffs but there's nothing fundamental to buff. Zealots are as strong as an A+move unit has any right to be. Stalkers can't be buffed or it's 2014 all over again. MSC can't be buffed because it's loathsome and abhorrent and in fact needs nerfing. That leaves... Sentries? I mean, there's literally nothing else, unless they wise up and start CHANGING instead of buffing and nerfing.
I read that post last night, and funny thing is i've said the exact same things he has said on my stream about how the adept being so utterly broken doesn't allow myself or anyone to make an informed opinion about the state of Protoss in LOTV.
I have tried to use the voice i have on stream to get this issue, and i say adept as an "issue" because it has now become one for beta, to get the issue fixed because it's ruining a lot of the game.
So now like you guys i just read the patch notes and i see the adept is barely being nerfed and is instead getting a ridiculous buff.
Ok...i honestly don't want to get angry or pessimistic for SC2 because i would rather be constructive...but something is very wrong with the blizzard balance team or whoever is in charge doesn't seem to understand their own game much =/
In regards to the other "macro mechanic" changes....HERE WE GO AGAIN! Why? Why is blizzard wasting their own time listening to bronze leaguers on reddit and the official bnet forums about how atrocious macro mechanics are for the game, instead of WORKING ON THE GAMEPLAY OF THE GAME, THE UNIT DESIGN, and oh yeah...THE GAMEPLAY.
I personally am predicting once again Terran is going to take a hard hit from any economy change because mules allow Terran to keep up with the other two races. As a matter of fact, Protoss is going to take a hard hit too, because Zerg will now just become the god race again.
I don't know how many times i have to post it, say it on stream, go on any SC2 talk show and talk about it...ZERG'S ECONOMY INCREASES EXPONENTIALLY, Protoss and Terran economy increases LINEARLY.
This means if blizzard does any stupid changes to economy or macro mechanics it turns Zerg naturally into the god tier race because P/T, especially as games get figured out and go longer, end up losing out versus a Zerg who is able to drone up to 60 drones the same exact way as before while the other two races have less economy.
Not too happy again with Blizzard's recent patch, there's my reasoning as logical as i can put it out here on the forums. Blizzard needs to stop touching macro/economy and focus on the gameplay of this game.
Blizzard needs to also nerf the adept because this unit is flat out ruining the entire beta, and on top of that not do a ridiculous buff to the unit in the same patch where they barely touch it.
I expect adepts to be even more bullshit than last patch.
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On October 03 2015 08:46 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 08:40 Spyridon wrote:On October 03 2015 08:20 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 03 2015 08:15 TheWinks wrote:On October 03 2015 08:14 ZAiNs wrote:
MULEs used to mine 270 minerals, now how much do they mine? 180 Holy shit. Terrans are already on the back foot economically in TvP because of the power of Adepts. In what universe is directly hurting Terran economy the sensible next step? That sounds more like a balance issue with adepts rather than a global economy issue for terran... If Terran economy in early and midgame is overpowered vZ and v(hypothetically balanced)P, you're right, but if that's Blizzard's thought process then I'd love to hear what made them think Terran economy is indeed too strong. That's the sort of conclusion you can only come to after closely analyzing some statistics. There's no stats mentioned anywhere in yesterday's or today's posts, though. It sounds a lot more like their reasoning was "we hate macro mechanics whee!"
Well game ending harassment has been a huge issue lately... even in the tournaments most games end before reaching "mid-late" game. The early game (as a WHOLE) ramps up far too fast. All the dangerous openers that need to be scouted have less time to respond to now. And games can be ended before moving past 3 bases (again).
This is all due to the faster economy + macro mechanics. Having BOTH causes problems.
So as a whole, the best way to fix these issues, is slow down the initial scaling of early game. Slower scaling = more combat with less units early, more fighting over expansions before a bunch of air units/drops make siege units useless, less game ending harassment, more of an investment of time to go down a specific tech path.
Those are actually good things. The only problem is they are only changing economy and not the units themselves as needed... Then when it doesnt work (because they are half-assing it) they revert it, instead of doing things properly.
Tired of these half-measures...
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On October 03 2015 08:37 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 08:33 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Adept upgrade which reduces attack period by 45%
Just to make it make more sense, the Adept dps has increased by +81%
Workers are going to die a lot lot faster now.
A quick purely mathematical comparison devoid of context.
HP reduced to 0.65 of former level.
DPS increased to 1.81 of previous level.
Multiply and square root = 1.09
Adept is 9% buffed in a "straight" combat. No, it's buffed by 45.045045045045...%, the exact amount they buffed the attack cooldown. How do you even get to 81%?
Eh, Blizzard can't even describe their own changes properly. The attack period wasn't reduced by 45% as was written.
"Adept upgrade which reduces attack period by 45%" is not the same thing as "45% increase in attack speed". Two completely different things Silly silly Blizzard. Makes you wonder how incompetent whoever it is that wrote the update is.
Anyhow Adept is nerfed by 3% in a straight fight, devoid of context. Amazing Nerf.
It's pretty much a buff if you consider how much point damage the adept does.
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EPT
