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On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation.
solid argument... I think you are right dude
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On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude
That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players.
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On September 21 2015 01:46 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players.
If the core game isn't attracting players no amount of game modes will fix that.
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On September 21 2015 02:08 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 01:46 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players. If the core game isn't attracting players no amount of game modes will fix that.
Why aren't we viewing the other modes as part of the core game? Would you not say that in CSGO the casual mode isn't part of the core game?
The alternatives are part of the core game they're just not part of the competitive aspect.
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Multiple injections are awesome for me as platina player.
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On September 21 2015 02:13 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 02:08 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 01:46 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players. If the core game isn't attracting players no amount of game modes will fix that. Why aren't we viewing the other modes as part of the core game? Would you not say that in CSGO the casual mode isn't part of the core game? The alternatives are part of the core game they're just not part of the competitive aspect.
You can't compare an RTS to an FPS. For an FPS shooting boxes is part of the core game.
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In the end idc if manual or automatic I guess. The effect should be reduced anyway. With effect close to zero there is no reason to not automize it. Now try mules 15-25, drones 2 and chrono 5-10% plz if you want to keep it manual. Anything less than that is probably too unrewarding to justify manual execution.
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On September 21 2015 02:16 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 02:13 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 02:08 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 01:46 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players. If the core game isn't attracting players no amount of game modes will fix that. Why aren't we viewing the other modes as part of the core game? Would you not say that in CSGO the casual mode isn't part of the core game? The alternatives are part of the core game they're just not part of the competitive aspect. You can't compare an RTS to an FPS. For an FPS shooting boxes is part of the core game.
And the campaign or other modes like 2vs2 Archon aren't RTS?
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On September 21 2015 02:16 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 02:13 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 02:08 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 01:46 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players. If the core game isn't attracting players no amount of game modes will fix that. Why aren't we viewing the other modes as part of the core game? Would you not say that in CSGO the casual mode isn't part of the core game? The alternatives are part of the core game they're just not part of the competitive aspect. You can't compare an RTS to an FPS. For an FPS shooting boxes is part of the core game.
What?
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On September 21 2015 02:36 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 02:16 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 02:13 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 02:08 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 01:46 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players. If the core game isn't attracting players no amount of game modes will fix that. Why aren't we viewing the other modes as part of the core game? Would you not say that in CSGO the casual mode isn't part of the core game? The alternatives are part of the core game they're just not part of the competitive aspect. You can't compare an RTS to an FPS. For an FPS shooting boxes is part of the core game. What?
Care to elaborate your question?
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On September 21 2015 02:59 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 02:36 Ansibled wrote:On September 21 2015 02:16 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 02:13 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 02:08 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 01:46 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players. If the core game isn't attracting players no amount of game modes will fix that. Why aren't we viewing the other modes as part of the core game? Would you not say that in CSGO the casual mode isn't part of the core game? The alternatives are part of the core game they're just not part of the competitive aspect. You can't compare an RTS to an FPS. For an FPS shooting boxes is part of the core game. What? Care to elaborate your question?
He said that because you were/are talking complete shit, what I said wasn't comparing an RTS to an FPS it was comparing the gamemodes within each game.
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On September 21 2015 03:17 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 02:59 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 02:36 Ansibled wrote:On September 21 2015 02:16 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 02:13 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 02:08 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 01:46 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players. If the core game isn't attracting players no amount of game modes will fix that. Why aren't we viewing the other modes as part of the core game? Would you not say that in CSGO the casual mode isn't part of the core game? The alternatives are part of the core game they're just not part of the competitive aspect. You can't compare an RTS to an FPS. For an FPS shooting boxes is part of the core game. What? Care to elaborate your question? He said that because you were/are talking complete shit, what I said wasn't comparing an RTS to an FPS it was comparing the gamemodes within each game.
Wow thats definitely a constructive post asking for a constructive answer.
On September 21 2015 02:35 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 02:16 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 02:13 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 02:08 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 01:46 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players. If the core game isn't attracting players no amount of game modes will fix that. Why aren't we viewing the other modes as part of the core game? Would you not say that in CSGO the casual mode isn't part of the core game? The alternatives are part of the core game they're just not part of the competitive aspect. You can't compare an RTS to an FPS. For an FPS shooting boxes is part of the core game. And the campaign or other modes like 2vs2 Archon aren't RTS?
I don't get this question. Why are you asking this? My point is that the core of an FPS is much smaller than the core of an RTS.
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On September 21 2015 02:59 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 02:36 Ansibled wrote:On September 21 2015 02:16 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 02:13 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 02:08 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 01:46 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players. If the core game isn't attracting players no amount of game modes will fix that. Why aren't we viewing the other modes as part of the core game? Would you not say that in CSGO the casual mode isn't part of the core game? The alternatives are part of the core game they're just not part of the competitive aspect. You can't compare an RTS to an FPS. For an FPS shooting boxes is part of the core game. What? Care to elaborate your question?
I don't understand what point you're making, FPS is about shooting boxes I suppose but I don't see what this has to do with a variety of game modes. SC2 Campaign, Allied Commanders, 1v1, 2v2, etc all share the same 'core game' if you break it down into something along the lines of 'shooting boxes.'
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On September 21 2015 04:16 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 02:59 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 02:36 Ansibled wrote:On September 21 2015 02:16 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 02:13 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 02:08 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 01:46 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players. If the core game isn't attracting players no amount of game modes will fix that. Why aren't we viewing the other modes as part of the core game? Would you not say that in CSGO the casual mode isn't part of the core game? The alternatives are part of the core game they're just not part of the competitive aspect. You can't compare an RTS to an FPS. For an FPS shooting boxes is part of the core game. What? Care to elaborate your question? I don't understand what point you're making, FPS is about shooting boxes I suppose but I don't see what this has to do with a variety of game modes. SC2 Campaign, Allied Commanders, 1v1, 2v2, etc all share the same 'core game' if you break it down into something along the lines of 'shooting boxes.'
If you really want to compare the game modes lets look at what they have in common and what they don't. For CS:GO, in both Casual and Competetive we have two opposing teams trying to eliminate the enemy team or achieve some objective. Kills and objective wins give you money that you turn into more weapons.
Both core mechanics are: Get a weapon and shoot stuff. The actual differences in those two game modes are numbers, time limits and some other smaller things like number of rounds and so on. But other than that they aren't really different and the core is pretty much the same.
The core of the game is the same. Thats my point: To visualize that, I made the statement that you could implement a mode where you shoot boxes and you'd still have a major part of the core game. "Get a weapon and shoot stuff".
For SC2 however you have much more complexity and thus a bigger core. Of course all of them assume RTS controls, but for an RTS it's not entirely just about the way you control. RTS is much more about the context than an FPS. For example if I was to give you unlimited money in CS:GO, in the end it would still just be about whoever shoots his weapon better. Do the same in SC2 and it's an entirely different thing.
Allied Commanders as well as the campaign play much, much differently compared to Ranked 1v1. And Archon Mode is simply playing this Ranked 1v1 together. But it is not changing the game at all and if the issue for missing players lies there, no Archon Mode will fix that. If the core game [of ranked 1v1] isn't fun for many, no game modes will be able to change that.
Now we could see Allied Commanders become massively popular and fun for people. But it's to be seen whether or not that would help Ranked 1v1 at all. After all if I'm playing Allied Commanders, I'm not playing Ranked 1v1. And I might also not watch competetive 1v1 because I don't care about it and only want to play AC.
To bring that point further:
If LoL was ALL about playing this 1-lane-game mode, do you think 5v5 would be as popular? Part of its popularity is because the 5v5, the "real" mode and game's core, is fun to many.
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On September 21 2015 02:13 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 02:08 KeksX wrote:On September 21 2015 01:46 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players. If the core game isn't attracting players no amount of game modes will fix that. Why aren't we viewing the other modes as part of the core game? Would you not say that in CSGO the casual mode isn't part of the core game? The alternatives are part of the core game they're just not part of the competitive aspect.
Archon is the same game to me. There is nothing in archon that you cant do in 1v1 or vis verca.
Allied commanders did in parts not even look like an rts game to begin with. It probably is but it's a different game I don't care for at the moment. And without a competitive MP I cant see that change a lot.
Desert Strike is awesome, but lacks a ladder. Campaign isnt MP. But again, they are different games and should be discussed seperatly from everything 1v1.
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That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players.
Higher level player doesn't matter. The core target group is what brings in money and viewers. The game needs to be engaging for the average player. If its not, any type of game cannot succeed.
It is true that you need a high skill cap as well, but that's not actually for pro players. That's for the average player so he becomes motivated to continue to further improve his skill. However, if he isn't having fun in the first place, the playerbase will dwindle.
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Watching NonY's stream ; the new chronoboost looks really silly. I don't see any way in which it is better than the current HotS one.
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On September 19 2015 04:54 Jaedrik wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2015 04:51 Charoisaur wrote:That's what every game designer should do, 99% of the community know NOTHING about game design.
They think without macro mechanics the game will be better because ... they think so.
So if blizzard actually listens to the community and removes mms and once the meta settles it becomes clear that it has made the game completely boring and stale ... guess who gets blamed for it? Surely not the community.
As a game designer you have to do what is best for the game. NOT what the community thinks is best for the game. Nice appeal to authority, bro. He didn't appeal to authority, he did appeal to expertise and experience in one's profession.
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On September 21 2015 08:20 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2015 04:54 Jaedrik wrote:On September 19 2015 04:51 Charoisaur wrote:That's what every game designer should do, 99% of the community know NOTHING about game design.
They think without macro mechanics the game will be better because ... they think so.
So if blizzard actually listens to the community and removes mms and once the meta settles it becomes clear that it has made the game completely boring and stale ... guess who gets blamed for it? Surely not the community.
As a game designer you have to do what is best for the game. NOT what the community thinks is best for the game. Nice appeal to authority, bro. He didn't appeal to authority, he did appeal to expertise and experience in one's profession.
Which is still a dead-end argument. Also no one here can say why some decisions were made. Maybe Kim got a note stating "Game releases on Nov 10, scratch all your ideas and just get it out there"? No one knows. But it's not the point for us to know that.
However a good game designer looks at what the community wants, as well. And if the majority of the community thinks that macro mechanics are not fun, one should consider that (as they are still doing clearly. Kim said himself that they haven't made their final decision yet).
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On September 21 2015 02:08 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2015 01:46 Ovid wrote:On September 21 2015 01:36 K)Vincent wrote:On September 20 2015 23:31 CheRRyKiTTy wrote:On September 20 2015 18:09 K)Vincent wrote:
is just my opinion guys, I wany an hard game... I don't want an user-friendly game like Blizzard did with Heroes of the storm that is a fail game... look at mobas for example, the most successful one is Dota2, the hardest one... and I'm not talking about twitch viewers but about prize pools. Honestly a guy saying "I'm not low league, I stuck in mid master from 4 years and I complain cause I want auto-inject" is one of those players that Blizzard shouldn't hear Most successful RTS is simply not enough at the moment. There is literally no competition in RTS scene. You are competing against other games like Counter Strike, MOBAs etc. and Starcraft is losing that competition HARD. If there is no entry level game to make people familiar with the gameplay, then the harder games can't flourish because the people who would eventually change from an easier game to the harder one are playing another genre. Since Starcraft is pretty much the only competitive RTS it needs to be easily approachable. Maybe Warcraft 4 or some other company is able to create this entry level RTS so that the competitive scene can flourish in the future, but at the moment we need to ease the mechanics slightly or we are going to lose to the easier competition. I personally understand the need for very hard game, but I don't see how it could work in the current situation. solid argument... I think you are right dude That's why they've implemented the easier transition game modes, as not to fuck the higher level players. If the core game isn't attracting players no amount of game modes will fix that.
That's quite a strange argument considering the majority of players in WC3 and BW played UMS or team games. Especially WC3 had a far larger player-base doing UMS rather than the core game.
What SC2 doesn't have compared to those two is good interface. They'd be able to retain far many players if they had bothered fixing up the arcade and bnet 0.2 properly - throw people in a chat room at login, allow creation of named custom games, rework the arcade... But since they've allowed bnet to be utter shit since launch, they'll never successfully keep players that hate 1v1 like they did in WC3 and BW.
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EPT
