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On September 04 2015 10:52 DooMDash wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 07:25 Big J wrote:[*] Ravager - New Upgrade: Increases the corrosive bile range to 13 from 9.
- Costs 100/100.
- Requires a Lair.
For a more in-depth explanation of these changes, read David Kim’s Community Update. I can't believe anyone is okay with this. It's like a siege tank with no draw backs
Sure, if Siege Tanks did significantly less splash, had a slower firing rate, had to be manually targeted for every shot, gave the opponent a warning marker for where they were going to fire for 3 seconds, had less HP, and were included in a race with completely different supporting units, synergies and potential compositions leading to a different set of overall strategic drawbacks. But you know.
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I'm not sure what the point of free MULEs is. The only interesting thing about that thing was having to balance it with scans.
EDIT: I don't even care about automating them, but if they don't compete with scans then there's just no point at all to MULEs being in the game.
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On September 04 2015 11:18 SmileZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 10:52 DooMDash wrote:On September 04 2015 07:25 Big J wrote:[*] Ravager - New Upgrade: Increases the corrosive bile range to 13 from 9.
- Costs 100/100.
- Requires a Lair.
For a more in-depth explanation of these changes, read David Kim’s Community Update. I can't believe anyone is okay with this. It's like a siege tank with no draw backs Sure, if Siege Tanks did significantly less splash, had a slower firing rate, had to be manually targeted for every shot, gave the opponent a warning marker for where they were going to fire for 3 seconds, had less HP, and were included in a race with completely different supporting units, synergies and potential compositions leading to a different set of overall strategic drawbacks. But you know.
Altough your point makes sense, having a mobile unit have more range than an immobile unit is not really ok, ravagers where already good vs tanks, now they are way too good, and on top of that they also nerfed tank drops, I wonder why blizzard thinks they are so broken they require a double nerf.
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On September 04 2015 11:28 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 11:18 SmileZerg wrote:On September 04 2015 10:52 DooMDash wrote:On September 04 2015 07:25 Big J wrote:[*] Ravager - New Upgrade: Increases the corrosive bile range to 13 from 9.
- Costs 100/100.
- Requires a Lair.
For a more in-depth explanation of these changes, read David Kim’s Community Update. I can't believe anyone is okay with this. It's like a siege tank with no draw backs Sure, if Siege Tanks did significantly less splash, had a slower firing rate, had to be manually targeted for every shot, gave the opponent a warning marker for where they were going to fire for 3 seconds, had less HP, and were included in a race with completely different supporting units, synergies and potential compositions leading to a different set of overall strategic drawbacks. But you know. Altough your point makes sense, having a mobile unit have more range than an immobile unit is not really ok, ravagers where already good vs tanks, now they are way too good, and on top of that they also nerfed tank drops, I wonder why blizzard thinks they are so broken they require a double nerf.
Last I was aware Siege Tanks also have 13 range, no?
Either way, I'm not saying that I think the new range upgrade is or isn't balanced, I just wanted to address the hyperbole of saying it was like a tank with NO drawbacks, which is very much not the case. Maybe it will turn out to be too powerful, in which case it can be reverted - the beta exists to test these things out after all.
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On September 04 2015 11:28 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 11:18 SmileZerg wrote:On September 04 2015 10:52 DooMDash wrote:On September 04 2015 07:25 Big J wrote:[*] Ravager - New Upgrade: Increases the corrosive bile range to 13 from 9.
- Costs 100/100.
- Requires a Lair.
For a more in-depth explanation of these changes, read David Kim’s Community Update. I can't believe anyone is okay with this. It's like a siege tank with no draw backs Sure, if Siege Tanks did significantly less splash, had a slower firing rate, had to be manually targeted for every shot, gave the opponent a warning marker for where they were going to fire for 3 seconds, had less HP, and were included in a race with completely different supporting units, synergies and potential compositions leading to a different set of overall strategic drawbacks. But you know. Altough your point makes sense, having a mobile unit have more range than an immobile unit is not really ok, ravagers where already good vs tanks, now they are way too good, and on top of that they also nerfed tank drops, I wonder why blizzard thinks they are so broken they require a double nerf.
Please don't overanalyze Blizzards reasons for doing this. They are just turning the knobs of the game to watch us like ants scrambling for cover. There is no thinking, there is just doing. And boy are they doing.
This is FUBAR.
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On September 04 2015 11:21 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
I'm not sure what the point of free MULEs is. The only interesting thing about that thing was having to balance it with scans.
EDIT: I don't even care about automating them, but if they don't compete with scans then there's just no point at all to MULEs being in the game.
It's a respond to the "community" who depended on MULE mineral income rate for years. Without MULEs they are too "slow" or consistently "poor". It's mostly a change to please a group of vocal people who wants to play a certain way.
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On September 04 2015 11:43 playnice wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 11:21 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
I'm not sure what the point of free MULEs is. The only interesting thing about that thing was having to balance it with scans.
EDIT: I don't even care about automating them, but if they don't compete with scans then there's just no point at all to MULEs being in the game. It's a respond to the "community" who depended on MULE mineral income rate for years. Without MULEs they are too "slow" or consistently "poor". It's mostly a change to please a group of vocal people who wants to play a certain way.
I'm actually fine with MULEs coming back. I'm even fine with auto-casting MULEs if that's the direction they want to go. I just don't understand why they made it non-competitive with scans.
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On September 04 2015 11:47 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 11:43 playnice wrote:On September 04 2015 11:21 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
I'm not sure what the point of free MULEs is. The only interesting thing about that thing was having to balance it with scans.
EDIT: I don't even care about automating them, but if they don't compete with scans then there's just no point at all to MULEs being in the game. It's a respond to the "community" who depended on MULE mineral income rate for years. Without MULEs they are too "slow" or consistently "poor". It's mostly a change to please a group of vocal people who wants to play a certain way. I'm actually fine with MULEs coming back. I'm even fine with auto-casting MULEs if that's the direction they want to go. I just don't understand why they made it non-competitive with scans.
Very good point.
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Blizzard proves again that they will never change things in meaningful ways and design the game properly that way.
Band aid fix after band aid fix ..
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Now the game is wayyyy faster than it was in the previous patch, before removing the "Macro Booasters", now re adding the "Macro Boosters" with automation is uh... just bad.
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I actually love that recently users who quote Battle.net posts are putting the official link at the BEGINNING of the OP (instead of the traditional "Source" at the very end of a usually long post). I prefer to read these things first-hand, thx Big J!
On topic, I really don't know what to make of these changes anymore. I thought I knew where Blizzard was going with their expansion pack, now I'm not sure :D. I still wonder why they touched macro mechanics when essentially no one was complaining about them. They're attempting some super drastic changes (which is good), but not really in areas where people actually care, I feel, so that's weird.
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finally creep recedes faster! 
Curious to try to new mechanics.
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On September 04 2015 11:47 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 11:43 playnice wrote:On September 04 2015 11:21 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
I'm not sure what the point of free MULEs is. The only interesting thing about that thing was having to balance it with scans.
EDIT: I don't even care about automating them, but if they don't compete with scans then there's just no point at all to MULEs being in the game. It's a respond to the "community" who depended on MULE mineral income rate for years. Without MULEs they are too "slow" or consistently "poor". It's mostly a change to please a group of vocal people who wants to play a certain way. I'm actually fine with MULEs coming back. I'm even fine with auto-casting MULEs if that's the direction they want to go. I just don't understand why they made it non-competitive with scans.
Because the goal is not to add an interesting mechanic into the game. It is there as a crutch that is deemed necessary due to the responds given on the last patch and the reintroduction of Chronoboost. Having it compete with other scans or depot drop would make it a really lame crutch.
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To people wondering what's the difference between the auto-MULE and "just" hard-coding a faster harvesting rate or re-adjusting unit costs for Terran (they're essentially the same):
I wondered about that myself. As it stands, auto-mule is a really bland mechanic, no doubt about that: there is no action (because automatic) nor choice (because on cooldown instead of sharing the energy pool of scans) involved. The only thing that makes it remotely interesting for the game is that the opponent can target it instead of SCVs when harassing, and I actually wonder if it is worthwhile to do that or not.
It's kind of the same for zerg, they could have decided to spawn more larvae per hatch, but instead they went for a macro boost that we can kill more easily when harassing. The queen is a little better because it serves other purposes (while the MULE really just boosts your economy).
Auto-chrono is actually the only really nicely implemented one in my opinion. It removes the mechanical requirement (which was their goal), yet preserves all the potential for choice for the user. I just wish they had found something else for Zerg and Terran.
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On September 04 2015 10:45 Charoisaur wrote:
unless you want to allin or you have enough workers.
Are they not decisions? This whole "next thing you know they'll automate everything!" argument can go in the trash where it belongs. It's so ignorant and unintelligent and doesn't deserve to be entertained. It's a cry-baby argument that anyone can just spit out and feel good about themselves and I see it every time macro mechanics changes are brought up. I'm personally not happy with how they are changing the game as far as macro mechanics go but at least I'm not so dense and pessimistic to spew this stupid argument that just seems to be regurgitated by anyone without any actual criticism of the changes. Stop posting this argument and come back with something of substance please. The most automated thing in StarCraft right now is this ignorant point of view because it's posted day after day and thread after thread.
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Everything makes sense, but I don't think the ovi drop change was really needed. I mean really... I don't think I have ever seen anyone on stream even abuse early drops.
I do think I agree with some of the auto cast stuff for toss and terran. Just a nice clean answer to the eco probs they apparently had.
Originally I took issue with the auto cast, but this seems like a pretty good fix imo.
Also, 25 energy seems low for that overcharge...
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I only have to say, pylon PO is stupid.
Thats all, thanks for your attention.
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I think LOTV should be delayed another year to try more stuff and rethink about what exactly the game should be.
I'm happy that Blizzard is trying new things. But I want this game to be great, not good.
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On September 04 2015 11:21 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
I'm not sure what the point of free MULEs is. The only interesting thing about that thing was having to balance it with scans.
EDIT: I don't even care about automating them, but if they don't compete with scans then there's just no point at all to MULEs being in the game.
It's because they've balanced terran assuming a super saturated mineral income, bio especially. Given the choice to go through and painfully rebalance the entire race without it or to reinstitute it and make that job far, far easier, they've opted for the latter.
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Zerg needs to make a queen to use a macro mechanic. Terran needs to make an orbital. Protoss needs to make what? Terran needs to wait 50 seconds after OC completion to use a scan. Also need an ebay to make a turret. Zerg needs spawning pool to make spore. Protoss can just open stargate or robo and have detection. What? All races start with 12 workers. Zerg needs to use workers to make buildings as do terran. Protoss needs a single probe to start warping in structures anywhere on the entire map that can also immediately go back to mining as the structure warps in. what? oracle with 13 range revelation? How can that even be countered? I already believe revelation lasts way too long and has way too big a radius in hots. Now its going to be even better? Nerfing medivac tank drops? Why? its already one of the most time consuming micro intensive things a terran has to do with a pretty high skill ceiling. You literally need to babysit it nonstop. Starting to think that blizzard forgot why things like mule, inject, and chronoboost were even in the game in the first place. I guess this expansion will be good if you still have a hardon for protoss bullcrap after 5 years. As if coll ht deathballs wern't already overkill, add the disrupter to the mix and auto supershield immortals and both bio and mech will be next to useless in tvp. Lets not forget mass carrier late game armies with interceptors that pretty much kill any army or structure in a single instant. Vikings manage to get 2 maybe 3 shots off if their lucky before disappearing forever. It'd be nice if the raven was still an option but the PPD is a joke now and the seeker missle was already super easy to micro against. Don't even need to talk about the ridiculous build time and high gas cost for a unit that barely does anything anymore.
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EPT
