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United Kingdom20332 Posts
I think one of the initial things that irk me the most (my god so many of these things irk me) is that the oracle is being buffed. I personally feel like every decision should have a cost to go with it. If your decision is to get detection via an oracle rather than an observer there should be some drawback to that. There should be inherent reasons to want to get an oracle versus wanting to get an observer.
To me it doesn't sound like you'd ever really WANT an observer, as the invisibility doesn't seem to outway the resourcefulness of an oracle
Maybe you're out of the loop here but the Revelation change only really affects when he has super long range units in his army.
Oracles are completely shit detectors early game to the point where even though they cost 2-3x more gas than observers and likely take longer to build (i don't remember the exact numbers) they can't actually do much detecting at all.
If he walks into your base and sends 1 dt to the main, one to the natural and you have 1 oracle - congrats, you can only put detection on one DT unless you wait a minute or two for your energy to regen. Then what, wait for another oracle to build? while the other one stops half of your mining and unpowers all of your stuff? Yup.
The detection is a thing that you drop on the floor, it doesn't follow the oracle around any more.
To me it doesn't sound like you'd ever really WANT an observer
~55 games of LOTV archon GM, 14 losses overall and several of them were directly because DT's came in and we only had 1-2 oracles instead of having an observer to save our ass. Try actually using the unit before making those conclusions.
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Interesting changes, the big no no for me is new PO. Makes offensive PO insane and defensive PO terrible
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United States1547 Posts
Great more siege tank counters for unit that had enough weakness.
What exactly does ravagers have in exchange for their incredible long range and damage? Immobility? Less damage? Nothing? 9 range was long enough for trade off and maybe should have reduced liberator range instead of trying to counter tanks even more than it is right now-tanks wasn't really in great position in lotv other than tank drops with vipers and broodlords and all and now with ravager counters, it takes backseat even more.
The automated macro mechanics does absolutely nothing to "easing" the hardness for newcomers except for new zerg players- Hardest part of sc has always been managing production cycles and buildings and keeping supply consistent IN ADDITION to controlling army that melts in seconds if not tended to. All the automation does is remove that production cycle for zergs in overwhelming favor against other races and thats all.
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On September 04 2015 09:27 DeadByDawn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 09:23 TheWinks wrote:On September 04 2015 09:19 Energizer wrote:On September 04 2015 09:11 parkufarku wrote:
Calldown: MULE is back.
Ability is set to autocast on nearby minerals.
No energy cost.
Now has a cooldown.
30 range from casting Orbital Command.
Harvest amount decreased to 40 from 45.
40 per trip still sounds incredibly OP. Looks like enough Terrans whined that Chronoboost / Inject got nerfed while T's macro remains relatively unchanged Actually its a buff from HOTS when they only carried 30 minerals; http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MULE In legacy they make 6 trips. 9 x 30 = 270 <- hots 6 x 45 = 270 6 x 40 = 240 <- live beta I didn't see it, but apparently they still can die on their last trip on far minerals, making it only 200 minerals. Which with the lost of two workers whilst the OC builds means that (per minute) you get about 100 minerals extra. Woohoo OP!
Really? Even in HOTS you couldn't make workers while it was turning into OC. You cant count that. Retarded Terran fanboy logic.
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It is September mind you, maybe the interns are taking over the balance team office and are trolling us.
Hilarious changes!!!!
I have to admit they might just break the game or make it better. Bold move. Perhaps they don't care any more.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
I can beat Protoss again, but then all I ever do is go ling/bling since I think thats the most fun style
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On September 04 2015 10:05 HmmmCookies wrote:
Soon we won't even have to make workers or micro units. I mean I know we're trying to make the game more accessible, but this is ridiculous. Auto-cast macro mechanics? Really Blizz?
This is such a ridiculous and stupid argument and I'm tired of seeing it from all these people who don't seem to put even two seconds of thought into it before freaking out over the word "auto-cast" like a knee-jerk reactionary baby.
The only thing automated about the macro mechanics is the mindless clicking involved with executing them once the decision to use them (which is sometimes not even a decision at all, such as in the case of inject larvae) is made.
When it comes to making workers, you're making a decision on how you're spending your money. When it comes to microing your units in combat, you're making a vast series of micro-decisions in a very short amount of time (which units to move/spells to cast, how far/which direction to move them, what to focus fire, what to target with the spells, etc.). There's nothing mindless about these that NEEDS to be automated.
Blizzard finally made some very intelligent insight into the difference between these situations and realized that it improves the game in all aspects, such as from an accessibility standpoint, fun for people playing, and interest for spectators watching pro games, to remove the pointless extra APM tax on making people click to use abilities that don't have much decision in them or very visible impacts, and thus free up APM to do the important things like microing units, harassing, scouting, and multi-tasking.
They are clearly showing that they are finally following a design philosophy that will make for a better and more engaging game, and the community of backseat devs who don't know the first fucking thing about game design is responding as if they're somehow on a slippery slope to do the very opposite of what these changes are achieving.
You whiners are clueless. Just let Blizzard do their job now that they're finally doing it right after 5 years and 2 expansions.
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Wow, huge changes.
Time to build a pylon and rush an MSC over to their base :3
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the pylons have to be connected to a nexus for the cannon right ? xD
100 energy scan, guess we are back at orbitaling everything. I would actually treat that as a joke as well. But I am to scared it will make it.
I would see the Immortal ability as a gamebreaker on autocast, but I doubt anyone will turn it off to make it more efficient. Thats I guess something that only happened in warcraft 3, where people could still micro. Sigh I have become bitter on my old days.
Guess we are entering the phase, where they realise they have to turn everything into a-move stuff, like in HotS. But maybe having the computer cast spells for us, will make a difference ?
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I think they don't care any more. They are just turning the knobs of the game.
Hilarious.
Give it a thumbs up and maybe it'll stick 
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- Photon Overcharge change is no good. Reasoning: Pylons will just be targeted and killed within 1-2 seconds, negating the whole point of PO.
- Good to see macro boosters back BUT new Chrono method is alot harder than using Chrono in HOTS. Why do Zerg and Terran get EASIER macro boosters and Protoss gets a more awkward more time consuming method ? Revert to HOTS method, that works just fine.
- Autocast is no good. You take away a strategic option that differentiates players. Sure it helps new players, but in the longrun it makes the game not interesting. (Part of the fun of SC2 is improving the macro side of your game).
Other changes look ok.
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On September 04 2015 10:28 SmileZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 10:05 HmmmCookies wrote:
Soon we won't even have to make workers or micro units. I mean I know we're trying to make the game more accessible, but this is ridiculous. Auto-cast macro mechanics? Really Blizz? This is such a ridiculous and stupid argument and I'm tired of seeing it from all these people who don't seem to put even two seconds of thought into it before freaking out over the word "auto-cast" like a knee-jerk reactionary baby. The only thing automated about the macro mechanics is the mindless clicking involved with executing them once the decision to use them (which is sometimes not even a decision at all, such as in the case of inject larvae) is made. When it comes to making workers, you're making a decision on how you're spending your money. When it comes to microing your units in combat, you're making a vast series of micro-decisions in a very short amount of time (which units to move/spells to cast, how far/which direction to move them, what to focus fire, what to target with the spells, etc.). There's nothing mindless about these that NEEDS to be automated. Blizzard finally made some very intelligent insight into the difference between these situations and realized that it improves the game in all aspects, such as from an accessibility standpoint, fun for people playing, and interest for spectators watching pro games, to remove the pointless extra APM tax on making people click to use abilities that don't have much decision in them or very visible impacts, and thus free up APM to do the important things like microing units, harassing, scouting, and multi-tasking. They are clearly showing that they are finally following a design philosophy that will make for a better and more engaging game, and the community of backseat devs who don't know the first fucking thing about game design is responding as if they're somehow on a slippery slope to do the very opposite of what these changes are achieving.You whiners are clueless. Just let Blizzard do their job now that they're finally doing it right after 5 years and 2 expansions.
building workers and supply depots is just as "mindless" as spamming macro mechanics.
You always want to build workers/supply depots constantly unless you want to allin or you have enough workers.
Wouldn't it be better to be able to turn that on autocast and turn it off when you want to allin or you have enough workers?
That way players could focus more on the "interesting" aspects of the game.
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On September 04 2015 07:25 Big J wrote:[*] Ravager - New Upgrade: Increases the corrosive bile range to 13 from 9.
- Costs 100/100.
- Requires a Lair.
For a more in-depth explanation of these changes, read David Kim’s Community Update.
I can't believe anyone is okay with this. It's like a siege tank with no draw backs
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Allright let's try er out. Can protosses and terrans come back now pls, tired of zvz
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I do not necessarily agree with the changes, but overcharge should be restricted to the super pylons.
It is amusing to think about how different LotV singleplayer (the base-building part of it, especially) is going to be from multiplayer. There are differences between elegant solutions and silly bandaids. If the core game were solid, there would be no need for so many exceptions and changes to specifically counter 1 unit.
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I have absolutely 0 desire to play this patch. Worse of both worlds bringing back Macro mechanics and automating them. The pacing of the last patch was excellent more fun than I've had in sc2 in years, Queen needed fixing, and balance changes need to be done of course but they didn't give these changes a chance. They are gunna back down from decisions based on the community reaction which is terrible for the game. Most people don't know what they want or think about what implications it has on the game play (outside of balance)
Absolutely piss-poor blizzard.
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So glad to see blizzard investing so much time and effort into making this a good game. No, I don't agree with every change they've made but I doubt anyone does. Starcraft is probably the greatest game ever made.(altogether) LotV will most likely be the last one for a long time and the last chance to add to the core player base. They are constantly testing, listening and changing things in this game all for us. Most of these companies (96%) don't do jack. Develop, market and collect the checks. Blizzard is doing this the right way and anyone that doesn't see it is a fool.
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Help yeah. Cannon rushing with the new photon overcharge on the pylon? sOs and Parting to win against every Zerg now.
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On September 04 2015 10:45 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 10:28 SmileZerg wrote:On September 04 2015 10:05 HmmmCookies wrote:
Soon we won't even have to make workers or micro units. I mean I know we're trying to make the game more accessible, but this is ridiculous. Auto-cast macro mechanics? Really Blizz? This is such a ridiculous and stupid argument and I'm tired of seeing it from all these people who don't seem to put even two seconds of thought into it before freaking out over the word "auto-cast" like a knee-jerk reactionary baby. The only thing automated about the macro mechanics is the mindless clicking involved with executing them once the decision to use them (which is sometimes not even a decision at all, such as in the case of inject larvae) is made. When it comes to making workers, you're making a decision on how you're spending your money. When it comes to microing your units in combat, you're making a vast series of micro-decisions in a very short amount of time (which units to move/spells to cast, how far/which direction to move them, what to focus fire, what to target with the spells, etc.). There's nothing mindless about these that NEEDS to be automated. Blizzard finally made some very intelligent insight into the difference between these situations and realized that it improves the game in all aspects, such as from an accessibility standpoint, fun for people playing, and interest for spectators watching pro games, to remove the pointless extra APM tax on making people click to use abilities that don't have much decision in them or very visible impacts, and thus free up APM to do the important things like microing units, harassing, scouting, and multi-tasking. They are clearly showing that they are finally following a design philosophy that will make for a better and more engaging game, and the community of backseat devs who don't know the first fucking thing about game design is responding as if they're somehow on a slippery slope to do the very opposite of what these changes are achieving.You whiners are clueless. Just let Blizzard do their job now that they're finally doing it right after 5 years and 2 expansions. building workers and supply depots is just as "mindless" as spamming macro mechanics.
No it isn't, so clearly you don't understand the distinctions at play here. There are many times players need to cut workers for various build orders, or build them from a different town hall instead of oversaturating a full mineral line, or need to spend larvae on something that isn't drones. For the times when you just want to keep producing workers, you have a queue (or the larvae mechanic). When it comes to supply depots, there's decision making involved in the placement of them, and the exact timing you place them according to your build, which is further complicated by the supply drop ability, or the new factors in pylon placement, or again, the balance of larvae for Zerg as well as your overlord placement, so that especially shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.
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EPT
