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- Either completely remove macro mechanics, or reduce their potency and make them manual cast again.
- Test a different economy system that promotes strategic expanding.
- Work on the Protoss mid-game, and fix the nonsensical mess that is the current warp-in system.
- Stop giving overcharge random buffs.
- Take a strong look at harassment...
- Tweak all the problem units (zealot, liberator, carrier) so that we can begin developing a metagame and figure out what LOTV really looks like.
Good points, although I quite like the new chronoboost. But I agree that the others need to be changed.
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The new chronoboost is pretty fucking terrible to manage with multiple nexuses, their goal was to make it less mechanically challenging but they actually made it harder. If I want to change a single chrono boosted building to something else I have to redo all of them anyways since there's no way I'll remember which nexus is doing which building and bother to manually select a nexus to change it.
Exactly, this is what I was trying to say. It's not only harder to manage, but MUCH weaker. It’s a lose/lose…. The only possible way I can think of it being more useful than the last one is in the game, allowing you to set chrono on your gateways or something and forgetting about it.
When people said that they want more ballsy and bigger changes they didn't talk about ridiculous band-aid fixes, but instead they meant fundamental changes to the races and gameplay. We don't see much of that and instead get these weird toys that look more like Command & Conquer than Starcraft.
I agree, both the liberator and the Cyclone feel very newbish and frustrating to play against… While the liberator feels very much like a c&c unit.
Too many gimmicks such as Pylon Overcharge and spells in this, why dont they just stick core mechanics of the game and make it an RTS, remove Warp gate and force field and adjust it from there for instance
I think at its core this is the problem, the gimmicks…. Right now the macro is broken, while the micro feels like gimmicks.
Yeah because things won't change 20 more times before the release... I love all these drama queens, like it is the end of the world or something. After every patch I am reading a ton of bad responses from some players and how this is "the end" of SC2 for them, just to see them post after a week again.
If nobody complains the bad things stay in the game, you need to complain to provide feedback.
What a bunch of babies haha. That's honestly a VERY basic memory exercise.
Try it yourself. It's a mess and gets messier with more nexus. Definitely not 'fun'. The old system was way more powerful and easier to use.
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So based on the community surveys, the macro stuff is extremely polarizing. On one hand, you have half the population thinking this is the death of SC2, and the other half, they either embrace the changes or are open to crazy things. I'm trying to put my personal bias aside.
Zealot
Zealot Charge damage decreased from 30 to 8.
Balance stuff. As long people use Zealots sometimes and not Adept 100% of the time. Seems like the design goal is making Zealot more DPS, but since Adept is getting a DPS upgrade, perhaps Zealot can get a tank based Charge instead if this falls through.
Chrono boost is back.
No energy cost.
Ability is set to autocast by default on the Nexus.
Efficiency is reduced to 20%, but never expires.
It will be more difficult than the HotS CB and I'm having difficulty teasing out what advantages this form has over the old one. I'm all for innovating, just struggling for what advantages there are that a basic nerf wouldn't accomplish. Could just double the energy cost and double the duration of the HotS CB, making it more committal and a slight early game nerf with worker production since it doesn't kick in as early.
Warpgate research time increased to 160 from 140.
Photon overcharge
Overcharge can only be cast on Pylons.
Has an attack range of 7.
Has a duration of 30.
Costs 25 energy.
Deals 30 damage every 1.25 seconds.
Mobilizing PO will scramble the meta, hopefully for good. I would not trash this idea without keeping in mind that Warp-in tuning isn't set in stone either. I think this is growth, but balancing will take time. Range and DPS are the biggies.
Colossus
Increased upgraded range to 9 from 8.
Protoss needs some reliable ground DPS that doesn't require intense babysitting. You could potentially redesign the unit but like macro mechanics, it's a polarizing unit. It's most grievous sin is dominating PvP, but in PvZ and PvT, there's 99 ways to handle it. Its micro potential is no more and no less than that of any other basic ranged unit with stutter.
Tempest
Now functions as it does in Heart of the Swarm.
Glad to see the uncounterable death spell is gone, even though it may've incentivized suiciding. I think the failing was because it's still smart to just sac the unit rather than take a bad engagement. It might just be the Broodlord's and Carrier's fault for being too good, which I'm happy Carrier is being addressed.
Immortal
Barrier ability is set to autocast by default.
Triggers when Immortal is attacked.
This isn't a bad change per se, just too much is in the opponent's court. If the Immortal were more microable, and they could actually avoid being poked, then I'd be more favorable to the change.
Oracle
Revelation cast range increased to 12 from 9.
Solid change. Detection balance has always irked me, because of how vulnerable and hard to replace Protoss detection is, while in the lategame unavoidable scans and any supply depot for Zerg can be a detector. This, in conjunction with the energy scan nerf might make detection more balanced. We'll have to see how DTs work against Terran. If it's too energy intesive for scans and Turrets/Ravens can't handle things, then just nerf the production time of DTs to scale with the energy delay.
Carrier
Increased the cooldown for Release Interceptors to 40 from 20.
Solid change. Carriers were just too versatile. So now they can keep their strength, but now you have to be more careful about timing and placement. If only Broodlords got similar changes.
Terran
Orbital Command
Calldown: MULE is back.
Ability is set to autocast on nearby minerals.
No energy cost.
Now has a cooldown.
30 range from casting Orbital Command.
Harvest amount decreased to 40 from 45.
Scanner Sweep cost increased to 100 from 50.
Calldown: Extra Supplies cost increased to 75 from 50.
The Zerg and Terran macro mechanics still don't sit right with me, because now they only serve the purpose of being snipable. This is fine but not sufficient, IMO. Spitballing, why not keep the range. Drop the autocast. And let Mules land on buildings for some X% construction time buff? That way Terran can switch tech more readily but needs to be a dedicated plan. Can bring back the energy tension and just nerf the overall mineral amount so it's not so obvious which would be better: Mule for tech timing, Mule for minerals, Scan, or Calldown Supply. And then just start slightly tweaking the mineral heavy units by small increments so bio doesn't get crippled by the mineral income drop.
Siege Tank
Now has a 0.75 second delay before firing when unloading from a Medivac while in siege mode.
I would rather Siege just be able to transform on the ground a lot faster, rewarding leapfrogging, but I acknowledge Terran gets a Reaver harass and I don't like taking away toys.
Zerg
Spawn larva increased from 2 to 3 per cast.
Creep now spreads and recedes faster.
Overlord
Transport upgrade requires a Lair.
Do like the creep spread thing. More focus on that. But I do think creep should have less vision, because the map control can't be too easy if the spread is being buffed. Definitely like more creep tumor fights. Perhaps Nydus (like the new Warpgate) should be a lot more useful when near a creep tumor? Then we can drop the invincibility stuff and abandon the idea of balancing Zerg armies that can appear in bases quickly. Speaking of which, that's probably why hatch tech drops are gone. Hatch tech drops probably could be balanced, I'm just not Zerg savvy enough to say anything but suggest nerfing Ling/Roach.
And as for Larva Inject, you should consider just making inject on a much longer interval, with a buffering system where you can fail to inject for 10-20s without real penalty.
Ravager
New Upgrade: Increases the corrosive bile range to 13 from 9.
Costs 100/100.
Requires a Lair.
I presume this is for Liberators and Carriers? I would just nerf those 2 rather than give a highly versatile unit a stupid amount of range. I'm willing to see how it goes though. I just forsee an abundance of Ravagers.
Otherwise, good experiments. People aren't going to like change. Hopefully the merits will shine through once the dust settles.
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Kill the mothership/core. If you must keep it and overcharge, make it so that overcharge is only possible on "super" pylons.
It is amusing to think about how different LotV singleplayer (the base-building part of it, especially) is going to be from multiplayer. There are differences between elegant solutions and silly bandaids. If the core game were solid, there would be no need for so many exceptions and changes to counter specific units. That and maps could be more dynamic instead of compensating for things that people have complained about since day 1 (forcefield, etc).
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On September 05 2015 04:12 purakushi wrote:
Kill the mothership/core. If you must keep it and overcharge, make it so that overcharge is only possible on "super" pylons.
It is amusing to think about how different LotV singleplayer (the base-building part of it, especially) is going to be from multiplayer. There are differences between elegant solutions and silly bandaids. If the core game were solid, there would be no need for so many exceptions and changes to counter specific units. That and maps could be more dynamic instead of compensating for things that people have complained about since day 1 (forcefield, etc).
I've seen this floated by several people, and it seems to make sense to me. This would strongly nerf offensive photon overcharge (PO) while affecting defensive PO very little.
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I don't agree. Why would anyone invest in a "super pylon" instead of the real thing (photon cannon)? If I have to invest minerals in defence, then I want something that will protect my base indefinitely and not just for the next X seconds.
Edit: the super pylon thing looks even more like a band aid than the MsC itself.
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On September 05 2015 04:34 CheddarToss wrote:
I don't agree. Why would anyone invest in a "super pylon" instead of the real thing (photon cannon)? If I have to invest minerals in defence, then I want something that will protect my base indefinitely and not just for the next X seconds.
Edit: the super pylon thing looks even more like a band aid than the MsC itself.
There's no investment. You just have a gateway or nexus connected to the pylon. It is already in LotV. There just isn't a good name for it, and I have seen a few people call it "super pylon", so I used it here.
But yes, SC2 is built on bandaids, so I was suggesting that in the event that Blizzard wants to continue down this path.
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I'm a long time Terran starcraft player (played in BW) and was so excited to see the mule removed I started playing LOV beta after quitting when HOTS came out. I hadn't had that much fun playing terran in SC2 since beta WOL. I can not believe they just added the Mule back to the game and made it autocast. Everyone hates the mule, why is it somehow essential to this game? Please lets KILL THE MULE!
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Ahhh, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were suggesting some kind of upgrade to the pylon, like evolving a spire into a greater spire. My bad. In any case, I'm not a fan of making the mechanic even more convoluted than it already is. The warp in mechanic is already far from elegant.
Maybe if warp in and power fields were split, but that would nerf the warp prism too much, in my opinion.
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On September 05 2015 04:57 CheddarToss wrote:
Ahhh, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were suggesting some kind of upgrade to the pylon, like evolving a spire into a greater spire. My bad. In any case, I'm not a fan of making the mechanic even more convoluted than it already is. The warp in mechanic is already far from elegant.
Maybe if warp in and power fields were split, but that would nerf the warp prism too much, in my opinion.
No worries  Agreed. Too many exceptions in SC2. It is not elegant, just silly.
Shield battery please~
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The problem with the current macro mechanics is that it makes zerg macro FAR easier than that of the other races.
Also the new mule mechanics is terrible because you can't use mules anymore in the later stages in the game when you build planetaries unless you relocate your orbitals ... but constantly relocating your orbitals makes terran macro even more difficult than in HotS. Very inelegant and unpractical change.
edit:
On September 05 2015 03:46 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 17:48 avilo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hate this direction of SC2. It's everything SC2 is not supposed to be. Not talking about balance changes like 100 nrg scan (which is ridiculous btw) but the macro mechanic removal...never needed to happen. And they know it. You know it. I know it. We all know it. They're just band-aid patching this game and making it worse with the automation and refusing to revert the game back to the SC2 we all know and love. Mules, chrono, and inject fundamentally are a part of SC2's identity as a game. What makes the game fun is not the game being easier or automated - but new units, new abilities, that stuff that blizzard should have been focusing on the entire time. I wonder how much of the SC2 community is really ok with how LOTV is going. I honest to god hope most TL veterans get their opinions out there because i feel like most old school SC1 players and a large majority of TL are going "wtf" on the inside right now even if their opinion is not front and center. Autocast does not belong in SC2, the macro mechanics do belong in SC2, they were great and i think the version of SC2 we all had played for the last 4-5 yrs was amazing fundamentally with those mechanics. It was not always amazing from the balance side of things because blizzard patched way too infrequently and poorly (making units faster randomly is not an appropriate balance fix to every situation). I'm just gonna quote some posters here who's sentiments i agree with too and make really good points: On September 04 2015 09:32 johnbongham wrote:
Does blizz really think these drastic changes are going to reinvigorate the scene? All I see happening is plenty of people refusing to switch expansions and maybe a few new people get into starcraft and we end up with yet another split scene. On September 04 2015 09:29 lichter wrote:
"macro mechanics aren't strategic enough"
"so let's automate it!"
srsly On September 04 2015 08:25 Vanadiel wrote:
The game is nowhere near ready for competitive play this year. I'll add more as i see em, but yeah...i wish more TL people were up in arms over the automation of SC2 tbh. When most people said they wanted lots of changes to SC2, i believe everyone meant balance, metagame, and generally fixing things that were perceived really annoying or broken...not completely re-designing the game to be Warcraft 4 from scratch. People wanted to see things like nukes more viable, nydus worms viable, offensive mech possible, no swarmhost turtle games, sentries tweaked, and new units like lurkers/liberators, new abilities, etc...why the hell in the first place is blizzard messing with the fundamental rule set of the game via mule/chrono/inject? It's arbitrary. Another thing that really annoys me about this entire beta is blizzard's unwillingness to ever test the DH9/DH10 economy models on the live beta servers. They never once let it go live and let players test it and see how it changed the game in a live environment. Instead, they chose their way of removing all macro mechanics for no reason and then realizing that that is going to go horribly and now bringing them back with automation... What is going on... Well said, Avilo, well said . As someone who has been around for the entirety of SC2's lifetime I can say without a doubt that I despise the current direction of the game. This is not StarCraft. Please... - Either completely remove macro mechanics, or reduce their potency and make them manual cast again. - Test a different economy system that promotes strategic expanding. - Work on the Protoss mid-game, and fix the nonsensical mess that is the current warp-in system. - Stop giving overcharge random buffs. - Take a strong look at harassment... - Tweak all the problem units (zealot, liberator, carrier) so that we can begin developing a metagame and figure out what LOTV really looks like. I have bought WoL & HotS on release. I've enjoyed playing them both despite their flaws. But if the game keeps heading in this direction I will not be buying LOTV. I have not even the slightest desire to play the beta, beyond a rough amount of games to form my opinion. That's not good...
completely agree
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Corrosive Bile range finaly gave zerg an answer to early liberator play, and it works really well in battles as you ravagers don't have to step foward to cast it anymore.
No opinion on the other changes. They should fix the overcharge pylon rushes soon. Also it forces zerg to build an overseer for scout, because overlords would just get killed by it. Not sure if it will affect the game, i like going for a fast lair anyways.
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On September 05 2015 00:49 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 08:25 Vanadiel wrote:
The game is nowhere near ready for competitive play this year. And sadly the game will most likely be released after Blizzcon. I'm more and more worried that game simply kills the last glimmer of hope I had that LotV could make SC2 big again.
Same, a bit sad because I actually liked legacy and felt that with the right tweaks the game was about to be a big improvement with respect to hots (which I still really like), but that was before all these new bullshit they introduced lately. I feel that this meeting blizzard had few weeks ago with pro player has fucked up everything
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i'm having fun with LotV. i like the direction of the game and i love DK correcting people about what Korean pros think.
On September 05 2015 05:47 Charoisaur wrote:The problem with the current macro mechanics is that it makes zerg macro FAR easier than that of the other races. Also the new mule mechanics is terrible because you can't use mules anymore in the later stages in the game when you build planetaries unless you relocate your orbitals ... but constantly relocating your orbitals makes terran macro even more difficult than in HotS. Very inelegant and unpractical change. edit: Show nested quote +On September 05 2015 03:46 Qwyn wrote:On September 04 2015 17:48 avilo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hate this direction of SC2. It's everything SC2 is not supposed to be. Not talking about balance changes like 100 nrg scan (which is ridiculous btw) but the macro mechanic removal...never needed to happen. And they know it. You know it. I know it. We all know it. They're just band-aid patching this game and making it worse with the automation and refusing to revert the game back to the SC2 we all know and love. Mules, chrono, and inject fundamentally are a part of SC2's identity as a game. What makes the game fun is not the game being easier or automated - but new units, new abilities, that stuff that blizzard should have been focusing on the entire time. I wonder how much of the SC2 community is really ok with how LOTV is going. I honest to god hope most TL veterans get their opinions out there because i feel like most old school SC1 players and a large majority of TL are going "wtf" on the inside right now even if their opinion is not front and center. Autocast does not belong in SC2, the macro mechanics do belong in SC2, they were great and i think the version of SC2 we all had played for the last 4-5 yrs was amazing fundamentally with those mechanics. It was not always amazing from the balance side of things because blizzard patched way too infrequently and poorly (making units faster randomly is not an appropriate balance fix to every situation). I'm just gonna quote some posters here who's sentiments i agree with too and make really good points: On September 04 2015 09:32 johnbongham wrote:
Does blizz really think these drastic changes are going to reinvigorate the scene? All I see happening is plenty of people refusing to switch expansions and maybe a few new people get into starcraft and we end up with yet another split scene. On September 04 2015 09:29 lichter wrote:
"macro mechanics aren't strategic enough"
"so let's automate it!"
srsly On September 04 2015 08:25 Vanadiel wrote:
The game is nowhere near ready for competitive play this year. I'll add more as i see em, but yeah...i wish more TL people were up in arms over the automation of SC2 tbh. When most people said they wanted lots of changes to SC2, i believe everyone meant balance, metagame, and generally fixing things that were perceived really annoying or broken...not completely re-designing the game to be Warcraft 4 from scratch. People wanted to see things like nukes more viable, nydus worms viable, offensive mech possible, no swarmhost turtle games, sentries tweaked, and new units like lurkers/liberators, new abilities, etc...why the hell in the first place is blizzard messing with the fundamental rule set of the game via mule/chrono/inject? It's arbitrary. Another thing that really annoys me about this entire beta is blizzard's unwillingness to ever test the DH9/DH10 economy models on the live beta servers. They never once let it go live and let players test it and see how it changed the game in a live environment. Instead, they chose their way of removing all macro mechanics for no reason and then realizing that that is going to go horribly and now bringing them back with automation... What is going on... Well said, Avilo, well said . As someone who has been around for the entirety of SC2's lifetime I can say without a doubt that I despise the current direction of the game. This is not StarCraft. Please... - Either completely remove macro mechanics, or reduce their potency and make them manual cast again. - Test a different economy system that promotes strategic expanding. - Work on the Protoss mid-game, and fix the nonsensical mess that is the current warp-in system. - Stop giving overcharge random buffs. - Take a strong look at harassment... - Tweak all the problem units (zealot, liberator, carrier) so that we can begin developing a metagame and figure out what LOTV really looks like. I have bought WoL & HotS on release. I've enjoyed playing them both despite their flaws. But if the game keeps heading in this direction I will not be buying LOTV. I have not even the slightest desire to play the beta, beyond a rough amount of games to form my opinion. That's not good... completely agree
Avilo has a track record of screaming "the sky is falling" and in the end it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. He does it so much about so many topics... so occasionally he is correct. i remember how Allies Vindicator Bombers we're going to become suicide bombers if Greg Black pushed through a speed nerf on their return to base. It turned out to be a really good nerf forcing the Allies to play with much more variety. The silence coming out of the Avilo camp after the patch was deafening. All-in-all he is an entertaining character, but i wouldn't get too caught up in the details of what he says.
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
On September 05 2015 00:47 ImYourHuckleberry wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 08:05 WhiteLuminous wrote:
I'm really concerned about this overcharge. Have they not considered the potential for offensive pylons.... I'm concerned about the energy cost (25 energy). This means a Protoss can camp outside a Terran's or Zerg's base and have continuous overcharge (4 PO with full MSC energy). By the time it expires, they will have 25 more energy - non-stop Photon Overcharge. WTF?
This means a Protoss can camp outside a Terran's or Zerg's base
Or a protoss base, too. Had someone try this on us.
The main reason for photon overcharge existing was to provide substantial defenders advantage in PvP after years of first-player-to-expand-dies and "every map in existance has to have a small ramp as the only entrance to your main base" play.
They've somehow redesigned it into something that doesn't do that at all.
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On September 05 2015 04:56 tQArchaic wrote:
I'm a long time Terran starcraft player (played in BW) and was so excited to see the mule removed I started playing LOV beta after quitting when HOTS came out. I hadn't had that much fun playing terran in SC2 since beta WOL. I can not believe they just added the Mule back to the game and made it autocast. Everyone hates the mule, why is it somehow essential to this game? Please lets KILL THE MULE!
It's so obvious macro mechanics removal was a huge improvement on game quality that it is quite surprising they have put it back. It's like they secretly dont wan't LOTV to be successful, as they have to leave room for their new 2016 games (heroes, overwatch).
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On September 05 2015 06:49 JimmyJRaynor wrote:i'm having fun with LotV. i like the direction of the game and i love DK correcting people about what Korean pros think. Show nested quote +On September 05 2015 05:47 Charoisaur wrote:The problem with the current macro mechanics is that it makes zerg macro FAR easier than that of the other races. Also the new mule mechanics is terrible because you can't use mules anymore in the later stages in the game when you build planetaries unless you relocate your orbitals ... but constantly relocating your orbitals makes terran macro even more difficult than in HotS. Very inelegant and unpractical change. edit: On September 05 2015 03:46 Qwyn wrote:On September 04 2015 17:48 avilo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really hate this direction of SC2. It's everything SC2 is not supposed to be. Not talking about balance changes like 100 nrg scan (which is ridiculous btw) but the macro mechanic removal...never needed to happen. And they know it. You know it. I know it. We all know it. They're just band-aid patching this game and making it worse with the automation and refusing to revert the game back to the SC2 we all know and love. Mules, chrono, and inject fundamentally are a part of SC2's identity as a game. What makes the game fun is not the game being easier or automated - but new units, new abilities, that stuff that blizzard should have been focusing on the entire time. I wonder how much of the SC2 community is really ok with how LOTV is going. I honest to god hope most TL veterans get their opinions out there because i feel like most old school SC1 players and a large majority of TL are going "wtf" on the inside right now even if their opinion is not front and center. Autocast does not belong in SC2, the macro mechanics do belong in SC2, they were great and i think the version of SC2 we all had played for the last 4-5 yrs was amazing fundamentally with those mechanics. It was not always amazing from the balance side of things because blizzard patched way too infrequently and poorly (making units faster randomly is not an appropriate balance fix to every situation). I'm just gonna quote some posters here who's sentiments i agree with too and make really good points: On September 04 2015 09:32 johnbongham wrote:
Does blizz really think these drastic changes are going to reinvigorate the scene? All I see happening is plenty of people refusing to switch expansions and maybe a few new people get into starcraft and we end up with yet another split scene. On September 04 2015 09:29 lichter wrote:
"macro mechanics aren't strategic enough"
"so let's automate it!"
srsly On September 04 2015 08:25 Vanadiel wrote:
The game is nowhere near ready for competitive play this year. I'll add more as i see em, but yeah...i wish more TL people were up in arms over the automation of SC2 tbh. When most people said they wanted lots of changes to SC2, i believe everyone meant balance, metagame, and generally fixing things that were perceived really annoying or broken...not completely re-designing the game to be Warcraft 4 from scratch. People wanted to see things like nukes more viable, nydus worms viable, offensive mech possible, no swarmhost turtle games, sentries tweaked, and new units like lurkers/liberators, new abilities, etc...why the hell in the first place is blizzard messing with the fundamental rule set of the game via mule/chrono/inject? It's arbitrary. Another thing that really annoys me about this entire beta is blizzard's unwillingness to ever test the DH9/DH10 economy models on the live beta servers. They never once let it go live and let players test it and see how it changed the game in a live environment. Instead, they chose their way of removing all macro mechanics for no reason and then realizing that that is going to go horribly and now bringing them back with automation... What is going on... Well said, Avilo, well said . As someone who has been around for the entirety of SC2's lifetime I can say without a doubt that I despise the current direction of the game. This is not StarCraft. Please... - Either completely remove macro mechanics, or reduce their potency and make them manual cast again. - Test a different economy system that promotes strategic expanding. - Work on the Protoss mid-game, and fix the nonsensical mess that is the current warp-in system. - Stop giving overcharge random buffs. - Take a strong look at harassment... - Tweak all the problem units (zealot, liberator, carrier) so that we can begin developing a metagame and figure out what LOTV really looks like. I have bought WoL & HotS on release. I've enjoyed playing them both despite their flaws. But if the game keeps heading in this direction I will not be buying LOTV. I have not even the slightest desire to play the beta, beyond a rough amount of games to form my opinion. That's not good... completely agree Avilo has a track record of screaming "the sky is falling" and in the end it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. He does it so much about so many topics... so occasionally he is correct. i remember how Allies Vindicator Bombers we're going to become suicide bombers if Greg Black pushed through a speed nerf on their return to base. It turned out to be a really good nerf forcing the Allies to play with much more variety. The silence coming out of the Avilo camp after the patch was deafening. All-in-all he is an entertaining character, but i wouldn't get too caught up in the details of what he says.
I'd say that his post is completely on point. There's two different types of Avilo...the entertainer, and the Avilo who is calm headed and reasonable. This post resonates with the latter.
He's saying that:
- He does not agree with automation of macro mechanics.
- Macro mechanics are fundamental to the identity of SC2.
- He wants Blizzard to focus on different avenues of game play rather than hacking together a new core that feels more like WarCraft 4 than SC2.
- He would like an alternative economy model to be tested.
- He can't understand why more long standing members of the community aren't up in arms about the changes.
The sky isn't falling, but the new direction Blizzard is taking is cause for concern. It looks more and more like these changes are here to stay and I for one would love to have them reverted...We have to go back to - what was the impetus for such convoluted changes in the first place? Aren't there other issues that are better worth the design team's time? Why not just dampen the effect of macro mechanics by 1/3 or so, until they have the desired effect on the tempo of the game, and then move on? When Koreans complained about the game being too hard, I hardly think they meant mechanically. I'm pretty sure what they were complaining about was the chaotic tempo of the game after so many different crazy harassment units were added.
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when i see extreme stuff like "really hate", "ridiculous", "and they know it", "we all know and love" all in 1 paragraph it just sounds like just another emotional child-like Avilo rant. if Avilo criticized Blizzard the way someone like Day[9] does i'd listen to him more carefully. of course you can defend the constant extreme child-like rants by saying 'he is an emotional guy'.
i do not agree with Avilo's critique of the patch nor do i agree with his opinion of "this direction of SC2".
regarding this patch: i basically subscribe to the opinions of Incontrol as outlined in his "iNcontroL Talks: Balance change and discussion Sept 4" on youtube.com. I don't 100% agree with everything word for word, but i'm too lazy to make a 30 minute video about it. i highly recommend the video.. its worth the 26+ minutes.
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
There are not a lot of people like Day9 around posting thoughts/criticism to strongly influence the direction of the game
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Well, PhotonCannon on pylons, things like that is why people had that feeling of unfairness or unjustice, and that is why people left the game and doesn´t recommended it to their friends neither, if in HotS the cannon rush is the common to get easy free wins, and you need to have at least diamond lv to response properly, while as protoss you can execute it as bronze or master, doesnt matter, if at newbie leagues suffer that feeling of losing to someone who made less effort than you, now with the photoncannon pylons bullshit gona be worst, blizz should think and take note on that feeling of unfairness of the people, specially the newbies players, before making decisions like that for the healthy and survival of the game, and if they decide to promote that easy free wins, is ok i guess, but they should give the same treatment to the other races to have the same options of get that easy free wins in terms of effort-efectiveness to execute them, also is incongruity that they increase the warpgate research for avoid how they call "gimmicky" things of protoss, but at the opposite of that politic they make photoncannon on pylons, no sense.
Now, why make barrier autocast?, if you gona do that then give the bonus of barrier to inmortals directly and remove barrier ability, no sense being autoactivated when is atackked or they gona need to activate when they aren't.
And what is the point of make changes if you gona regret them at all, the colossus was out, and they bring it back, the mules,cronobust was out, and they bring them back and improved, the tempest comeback as HotS, and transport upgrade ovelord requires lair as HotS, if they gona comeback to the same of HotS, then just make a patch.
This looks more like an alpha than a beta, no clear directions of what they want to do.
PD: If cronobust and mules doesnt cost energy now, i supuse that didnt make the same with inject for that creep spreed being faster, but i think is more useful for zerg have more energy on queens than have creepspreed faster, then why not make inject no need energy and put creep spreed like it was.
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EPT
