EPTLotV Beta Balance Update — September 3 2015 - Page 12
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
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TheOneAboveU
Germany3367 Posts
I don't want to babysit my army all the time, it's so boring. I want the pressure of having to inject and bouncing around, of having to be faster than my opponent - dodging some stupid skillshots is absolutely not the same. If I want to do that I play - guess what - Dota. A tough spot to be in... | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
I want to play with MORE larva and lots of crappy short range units, not fewer units with 13 range. And I want it to be hard to get many larva! FFS, blizzard removing everything I love with zerg.  | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
I could imagine 20-25 min mules tho. 40 or 45 is too forgiving and creates passivity of terran opponents, which is neither interesting to play nor to watch. On September 05 2015 04:56 tQArchaic wrote: I'm a long time Terran starcraft player (played in BW) and was so excited to see the mule removed I started playing LOV beta after quitting when HOTS came out. I hadn't had that much fun playing terran in SC2 since beta WOL. I can not believe they just added the Mule back to the game and made it autocast. Everyone hates the mule, why is it somehow essential to this game? Please lets KILL THE MULE! Exactly this. Mules are the main reason for me to neither want to play nor watch SC2 (the same is defenitely true for alot of other people but they don't know the cause but only the result). They create boring, passive and single sided metagames. You barely can win anything when attacking and committing on attacking a terran on mules economy without all-ining in alot of situations of the game. Funny fact about this is that alot/almost all people/pros haven't realized that over the years. This gives evidence how few of an idea they in fact have about the general factors and aspects of the game but became specialists in analysing if bunker build time and similar things should be nerfed or buffed a tiny bit. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20282 Posts
I LOVE the new photon overcharge. It's extremely interesting both offensively and defensively, so props to Blizzard on this one. And I'm Terran! The #1 problem by a mile here i think is that while it may be somewhat more fun and tactical against terran/zerg (a few abuses aside, it's quite nice on the defense having lower range ones way more often that rely on pylon placement, can be sniped etc) It doesn't work well in PvP. The main point of photon overcharge was to add significant defenders advantage to pvp after years of aggression like 4gates and pvp forcing every single map in existance to have a small ramp into the main and no rocks, because any flat ground or a wide opening to the main would mess up pvp. Now it doesn't provide the same defenders advantage, so why is it in the game? What about the old purpose that it has been silently fulfulling for the duration of HOTS, making pvp a much more stable and less map dependant matchup? | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3348 Posts
On September 05 2015 21:01 Cyro wrote: The #1 problem by a mile here i think is that while it may be somewhat more fun and tactical against terran/zerg (a few abuses aside, it's quite nice on the defense having lower range ones way more often that rely on pylon placement, can be sniped etc) It doesn't work well in PvP. The main point of photon overcharge was to add significant defenders advantage to pvp after years of aggression like 4gates and pvp forcing every single map in existance to have a small ramp into the main and no rocks, because any flat ground or a wide opening to the main would mess up pvp. Now it doesn't provide the same defenders advantage, so why is it in the game? What about the old purpose that it has been silently fulfulling for the duration of HOTS, making pvp a much more stable and less map dependant matchup? PvP now is mostly adept vs adept at first which isnt very fun. Agree with your point on hots but with the chronoboost changes perhaps it s no longer an issue | ||
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acadien
Canada9 Posts
On September 04 2015 21:32 KeksX wrote: Which would still require you to actively think about chronoboost and apply it through clicking on the correct nexus(that you thought of first). And if you fuck it up, you gotta do it for all nexus again. So I'm pretty sure this is at least the same work as before. I don't get this complaint. I always have all my nexi on one control group. When I need to reset the chronoboosted structures, I select the control group, and reset all of the structures. So, let's say I have 2 stargate and 1 forge currently being chronoboosted, and the 4th nexus just completed and I want to add my 2nd forge to the chronoboosted structures, I just select the control group, and put the chrono on all 4 of the structures. This takes little time and little APM. No need to worry, now, where will I put nexus 1, and nexus 2, and nexus 3 ... I don't care which specific nexus is paired with a specific structures ... just that the correct structures benefit from the effect. It didn't feel like I had to manage much at all, and once set, it's where I wanted it to be anyhow. Didn't have to jump back to base to reset chronoboost all the time. It seems like it does what it was suppose to do, still there, but very little required to micro manage it. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9362 Posts
Bringing mules back instead of balancing terran around the removal of mules is rather stupid imo. But I am glad they test different things. You only say this because you have no idea how complicated it is to balance terran without mules. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20282 Posts
On September 05 2015 22:49 WGT-Baal wrote: PvP now is mostly adept vs adept at first which isnt very fun. Agree with your point on hots but with the chronoboost changes perhaps it s no longer an issue Chronoboost doesn't really change that much about the expand dilemma in pvp (and forcing maps to be a certain way, as only certain base layouts are properly defendable). The warpgate change does somewhat tip the balance, but not entirely. The big Immortal nerf hurts defensive play, as power units (that the attacker can't afford to wait to walk across the whole map with) were often used in defense ----------- Also, the talk of changing Adept to armored is scary. That would make them even better against protoss in some ways, because stalkers are really bad at killing anything that threatens your workers - even if it's armored. Their DPS to cost ratio is among the worst in the game. At least when you're defending with Adepts, you can kill the other adepts fairly easily by aiming to match their numbers plus one or two, then throwing in the mothership core. Although 10 stalkers might now beat 14 adepts if adepts were changed to armored, you can still bet that those 14 adepts will kill an unrecoverable amount of probes before dieing. (adepts cost 100/25, stalker costs 125/50 so ~40% more with 100% extra gas cost) --------- I think it's cute but not neccesarily needed in PvT/PvZ defense. It strongly improves PvP, though - HOTS PvP has been miles better than WOL for two main reasons: MSC and Maps. However the MSC allows a wider range of maps to be used, so that's part of both reasons. | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
On September 06 2015 00:00 Hider wrote: You only say this because you have no idea how complicated it is to balance terran without mules. I want the best results, not to go the easiest way. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1652 Posts
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haiyeah
70 Posts
These are people trying to make a game, and maybe in a different reality it could be a better game. But there is such a huge lack of support from the community to the developers I genuinely feel bad for them. And everything they have done so far is making the game have more potential in the future. I'm getting a feeling there are a lot of people out there who have bad micro, I mean I got high EU masters with mostly micro so it could be true. The truth is Macro is easy, if you understand how to play the game. It is no harder to learn a build than it is to play a novice piece of music. You learn the generic structure, how it feels, and through repetition you learn the ins and outs. The more builds you memorise the greater your depth of understanding in Macro is. Players like MVP knew how to improvise perfectly through this kind of understanding. The hard part of the game is taking that knowledge, and correctly enacting it whilst your opponent tries to distract you from doing so. Placing your attention at the correct place, at the correct time, for the most efficient duration. This is the hard part of SC2 and my point is that this is going no where. The units have to be balanced of course, but I really don't understand all the fear and misunderstanding, There are definitely some letting emotion cloud their logic. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Demosthenes13
United States22 Posts
On September 04 2015 09:04 Tiaraju9 wrote: The new chronoboost is a nightmare to use. You have to individually select the nexus if you want to put that nexus's chronoboost in some place. Imagine doing that with three nexus. It's harder than inject. I completely agree, you can't even have all your nexus's (nexi?) On one hot key and tab between them to chrono. But even if they fix that and u could I think it's still as apm intensive as old chrono | ||
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keglu
Poland485 Posts
Zerg is already most top league heavy race on the laddder. I can only imagine how it;s going to look witth amcro being so much easier. | ||
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Alcoatk
1 Post
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Nerchio
Poland2633 Posts
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crazedrat
272 Posts
On September 06 2015 03:56 FabledIntegral wrote: I actually really liked mules, just not the extent of the mineral advantage they provide. I would have just rather seen mules giving 15 minerals instead of 30, 40, 45 or whatnot, and attempt to balance around that. Yes, they went too far back in the other direction now. I don't see what they're trying to do. I thought the whole point was to have the macro mechanics weaker, but 40 MULE is not a difference. Infact Orbitals are now stronger because they have free scans and supply drops added on. Give me back 4 larvae. What the hell are you thinking? Just go back to the standard macro mechanics and make them autocast, stop trying to change things you obviously are not capable of it. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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