|
On August 23 2015 04:32 Sissors wrote:
So summarised every boost to non-protoss is bad, and every nerf to protoss is bad, everything else is good. Makes sense. From your perspective. But did you really think mules could be removed and injects handicapped without changes to protoss?
Injects are hardly handicapped, effectively Zergs will have more larva mid to lategame up to high masters level. And most of all: the amount of attention that was previously required to keep injects up is no longer necessary, that makes an absolutely huge difference even on the absolute highest level.
|
Auto inject is the absolute worst change imaginable. demanding refund from blizzard for failed beta and failed game
|
On August 22 2015 18:32 jackacea wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 02:19 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
It seems like the autocast injects are not actually a nerf for 99% of the playerbase. I could see how a paid pro could actually inject better than autoinject, but anyone below low grandmaster is going to benefit from the autoinject. Masters and below will see a huge benefit from it. Imagine how much better a gold league Zerg is at injecting now with auto inject? That the injects are 50% effective is going to be well offset by there actually being injects.
From my perspective it is a huge hit against the Zerg economy since you will only ever have a maximum of 5 larvae per base. Imagine you would go LingBaneMuta, now you would need 8 Hatcheries to produce 80 Lings at once, which is only 40 supply mind you. Also there is no larvae bank you can build up for massive late game techswitches
Pretty much where my games are leading me to think, all I get is constant crying that auto inject is OP but honestly, even at a mid masters level I'm hitting every inject anyways damn near rock solid at least until the mid game is in full swing so I find myself floating massive amounts of resources with not even close to as much larvae as I'm used to having.
Macro hatches are going to be an absolute necessity upon saturating your third now, the auto thing really only benefits low level players, I guess in engagements it allows Zerg to micro a bit more freely but come on, this is a straight nerf to Zerg production, you'd have to be low level or biased to not see that.
By the way I'm not saying that removing the MULE wasn't a big thing for Terran, I would be fine with them getting some little from the get go buff like Protoss got if the MULE thing ends up being problematic.
But nothing is really "problematic" outside of a few OP beta units until the Koreans get to showing us what the actual issues are.
|
the game is better without macro mechanics, the time/apm wasted using chrono, inject larva and mules during battle will be used for a more spectacular micro, thats what makes the game funny to play and watch, not the fucking macro mechanincs.
|
can we have a video on the disruptor, i can't find nothing on youtube, it seems that only a few are playing this game...
|
not sure i like the idea of the zealot charge mechanic, but whatever, chargelots are a balanced unit imo anyway...
macro mechanics are ok i suppose....i definately think there should be a few months of testing with this new macro change, including possibly a bigger pool of players...the beta #'s are not big at all and these are very very big changes...
|
So if you are terran and go play LotV you get Mules removed and upgrades split. You can go MMM+M similar to WoL or you can play Mech but have a weak airforce. At least you dont have to spent 150 minerals on the CC. Oh and the Liberator. the 100% steal 100% gonna be removed anyway "Spectre Gunship" that was an item in"Command and Conquer Generals: Zero Hour"
For Protoss you get a "Reaver that went to college", the 2-hit-a-marine/Worker- Adept, a slightly nerferd colussus, a hugely buffed carrier, keep the mothership core for defense and the 22 range Tempest and you get a speedlot that gets early hots Ultralisk-Ram-Damage. Oh the Oracle stays as well.
Zerg got to keep the SH in some ways, even it was poor gamedesign, added Lurker to be cooler. the Infestor is underused, but not removed, added viper to beat everything, well everything left standing after the new roach transformation. You don't even have to build terrors or infestors, just this "airforce be gone parasite...thing...."
Protoss and zerg get many Units that fill in the same "role" of the game. Anti Air AOE? ParasiteBomb, Revenger and Fungal
Anti Ground AOE: Baneling, Fungal, Lurker
Anti Ground AoE: Storm, disruptor, Colossus, Archon, Anti Air: Archon, Storm (+Carrier + Tempest + Voidray + Phoenix)
Lets see Terran here:
Anti Ground AOE: Tank, Mine (luck based)
Anti air AOE: Thor, Mine(luck based)
I am more and more just disappointed with the game.
|
Lets see terran AOE ground:
Tank, Mine , Hellbat , Helion, Liberator
Anti AIR AOE :
Thor, Mine
The Thor serves its purpose to deflect mutalisks, and thats about it in TvZ.
Guys, seriously less QQ more GG.The game is in a beautiful state right now.Some units might need tweaking but the game never felt so diverse and immersive.Now you have to choose between 4-5-6-7 openings and so many transitions, harass options and so on.
Remember, 99% of the times you loose is because of mistakes you made, not because of balance, the 1% because of balance is such a tiny fraction that even the korean progamers sometimes cannot experience.
|
Not talking about "Balance" but gamedesing. Terran feels like playing golf with a baseball bat and a spoon against guys with irons, wood, putters, chippers...etc.
|
You can choose whether to play mech or bio with Terran whats the problem?You can even go with one of the nowadays insane strategies with mass banshee/liberator/viking which is really strong and needs adequate reactions to be dealt with.
I think Terran has just as much viable openers and styles as Protoss and Zerg.
I think Terran can really play one of the most skillful styles in the face of multi-pronged drops with mines/marines etc, which is highly taxing on a person's APM.
Cheers!
|
I dont think ive ever seen a patch where I like every single change they made. Especially the removal of macro mechanics. They are a needless timesink that take away from microing, or harassing. I really think thi will work out for the better.
|
So they removed MULES and then didn't buff terran to compensate? A net of 170 minerals (270 from mule vs 100 from depot drop) per 50 energy is massive, plus once you reach 200 supply, all you do with the energy is scan. Terran's going to get absolutely hammered earlygame because of this loss of minerals. Also, this makes depots more vulnerable because you're gonna have to use depot drop as your econ option so you'll have more of these depots lying around, and getting that kind of depot destroyed sets you back 200 minerals. (If an opponent harasses and you quickly pull workers, they can just start killing your double depots until you shoo them away).
Toss losing chrono is whatever. Most of the research times for upgrades were unnecessarily long (except their regular attack/armor upgrades where chronoing them out was kinda unfair at times) so if they're gonna reduce the research times then whatever.
I really like the change to warpgate. 16 seconds is really long but considering the units are coming out 15-45 seconds before terran and zerg get their units produced and then have to travel the distance to wherever you wanted them to go it's still good. I also like the reduction to 2 seconds when warping near a nexus because it greatly boosts defender's advantage (relative to before in pvp).
Auto inject is just dumb. It's not gonna affect pros since they're on time with injects, but it's going to greatly disrupt anything mid-masters and below.
|
On August 24 2015 21:13 IMPrime wrote:
So they removed MULES and then didn't buff terran to compensate? A net of 170 minerals (270 from mule vs 100 from depot drop) per 50 energy is massive, plus once you reach 200 supply, all you do with the energy is scan. Terran's going to get absolutely hammered earlygame because of this loss of minerals. Also, this makes depots more vulnerable because you're gonna have to use depot drop as your econ option so you'll have more of these depots lying around, and getting that kind of depot destroyed sets you back 200 minerals. (If an opponent harasses and you quickly pull workers, they can just start killing your double depots until you shoo them away).
Toss losing chrono is whatever. Most of the research times for upgrades were unnecessarily long (except their regular attack/armor upgrades where chronoing them out was kinda unfair at times) so if they're gonna reduce the research times then whatever.
I really like the change to warpgate. 16 seconds is really long but considering the units are coming out 15-45 seconds before terran and zerg get their units produced and then have to travel the distance to wherever you wanted them to go it's still good. I also like the reduction to 2 seconds when warping near a nexus because it greatly boosts defender's advantage (relative to before in pvp).
Auto inject is just dumb. It's not gonna affect pros since they're on time with injects, but it's going to greatly disrupt anything mid-masters and below.
Protoss and Zerg also lose macro ability, so terran should be fine.
What I dont understand is why they made kept injection at all. Why not just remove the whole mechanic and make more larva spawn naturally? If its going to be automatic, might as well remove it completely.
|
On August 24 2015 22:44 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2015 21:13 IMPrime wrote:
So they removed MULES and then didn't buff terran to compensate? A net of 170 minerals (270 from mule vs 100 from depot drop) per 50 energy is massive, plus once you reach 200 supply, all you do with the energy is scan. Terran's going to get absolutely hammered earlygame because of this loss of minerals. Also, this makes depots more vulnerable because you're gonna have to use depot drop as your econ option so you'll have more of these depots lying around, and getting that kind of depot destroyed sets you back 200 minerals. (If an opponent harasses and you quickly pull workers, they can just start killing your double depots until you shoo them away).
Toss losing chrono is whatever. Most of the research times for upgrades were unnecessarily long (except their regular attack/armor upgrades where chronoing them out was kinda unfair at times) so if they're gonna reduce the research times then whatever.
I really like the change to warpgate. 16 seconds is really long but considering the units are coming out 15-45 seconds before terran and zerg get their units produced and then have to travel the distance to wherever you wanted them to go it's still good. I also like the reduction to 2 seconds when warping near a nexus because it greatly boosts defender's advantage (relative to before in pvp).
Auto inject is just dumb. It's not gonna affect pros since they're on time with injects, but it's going to greatly disrupt anything mid-masters and below. Protoss and Zerg also lose macro ability, so terran should be fine. What I dont understand is why they made kept injection at all. Why not just remove the whole mechanic and make more larva spawn naturally? If its going to be automatic, might as well remove it completely.
To compensate for warp gate/reactors
|
On August 25 2015 01:47 Naracs_Duc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2015 22:44 solidbebe wrote:On August 24 2015 21:13 IMPrime wrote:
So they removed MULES and then didn't buff terran to compensate? A net of 170 minerals (270 from mule vs 100 from depot drop) per 50 energy is massive, plus once you reach 200 supply, all you do with the energy is scan. Terran's going to get absolutely hammered earlygame because of this loss of minerals. Also, this makes depots more vulnerable because you're gonna have to use depot drop as your econ option so you'll have more of these depots lying around, and getting that kind of depot destroyed sets you back 200 minerals. (If an opponent harasses and you quickly pull workers, they can just start killing your double depots until you shoo them away).
Toss losing chrono is whatever. Most of the research times for upgrades were unnecessarily long (except their regular attack/armor upgrades where chronoing them out was kinda unfair at times) so if they're gonna reduce the research times then whatever.
I really like the change to warpgate. 16 seconds is really long but considering the units are coming out 15-45 seconds before terran and zerg get their units produced and then have to travel the distance to wherever you wanted them to go it's still good. I also like the reduction to 2 seconds when warping near a nexus because it greatly boosts defender's advantage (relative to before in pvp).
Auto inject is just dumb. It's not gonna affect pros since they're on time with injects, but it's going to greatly disrupt anything mid-masters and below. Protoss and Zerg also lose macro ability, so terran should be fine. What I dont understand is why they made kept injection at all. Why not just remove the whole mechanic and make more larva spawn naturally? If its going to be automatic, might as well remove it completely. To compensate for warp gate/reactors
I mean that they increase the number of naturally spawning larva and make it the amount of larva equal to the amount in the situation now, and then just scrap the whole inject mechanic, since it doesnt actually add anything to the game now.
|
On August 24 2015 22:44 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2015 21:13 IMPrime wrote:
So they removed MULES and then didn't buff terran to compensate? A net of 170 minerals (270 from mule vs 100 from depot drop) per 50 energy is massive, plus once you reach 200 supply, all you do with the energy is scan. Terran's going to get absolutely hammered earlygame because of this loss of minerals. Also, this makes depots more vulnerable because you're gonna have to use depot drop as your econ option so you'll have more of these depots lying around, and getting that kind of depot destroyed sets you back 200 minerals. (If an opponent harasses and you quickly pull workers, they can just start killing your double depots until you shoo them away).
Toss losing chrono is whatever. Most of the research times for upgrades were unnecessarily long (except their regular attack/armor upgrades where chronoing them out was kinda unfair at times) so if they're gonna reduce the research times then whatever.
I really like the change to warpgate. 16 seconds is really long but considering the units are coming out 15-45 seconds before terran and zerg get their units produced and then have to travel the distance to wherever you wanted them to go it's still good. I also like the reduction to 2 seconds when warping near a nexus because it greatly boosts defender's advantage (relative to before in pvp).
Auto inject is just dumb. It's not gonna affect pros since they're on time with injects, but it's going to greatly disrupt anything mid-masters and below. Protoss and Zerg also lose macro ability, so terran should be fine. What I dont understand is why they made kept injection at all. Why not just remove the whole mechanic and make more larva spawn naturally? If its going to be automatic, might as well remove it completely.
For balance (you need to get queens, you can only get them after spawning pool, you need to have queens spend energy in it and not in creep tumors) and game play (sniping queens, etc)
|
On August 25 2015 02:01 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2015 01:47 Naracs_Duc wrote:On August 24 2015 22:44 solidbebe wrote:On August 24 2015 21:13 IMPrime wrote:
So they removed MULES and then didn't buff terran to compensate? A net of 170 minerals (270 from mule vs 100 from depot drop) per 50 energy is massive, plus once you reach 200 supply, all you do with the energy is scan. Terran's going to get absolutely hammered earlygame because of this loss of minerals. Also, this makes depots more vulnerable because you're gonna have to use depot drop as your econ option so you'll have more of these depots lying around, and getting that kind of depot destroyed sets you back 200 minerals. (If an opponent harasses and you quickly pull workers, they can just start killing your double depots until you shoo them away).
Toss losing chrono is whatever. Most of the research times for upgrades were unnecessarily long (except their regular attack/armor upgrades where chronoing them out was kinda unfair at times) so if they're gonna reduce the research times then whatever.
I really like the change to warpgate. 16 seconds is really long but considering the units are coming out 15-45 seconds before terran and zerg get their units produced and then have to travel the distance to wherever you wanted them to go it's still good. I also like the reduction to 2 seconds when warping near a nexus because it greatly boosts defender's advantage (relative to before in pvp).
Auto inject is just dumb. It's not gonna affect pros since they're on time with injects, but it's going to greatly disrupt anything mid-masters and below. Protoss and Zerg also lose macro ability, so terran should be fine. What I dont understand is why they made kept injection at all. Why not just remove the whole mechanic and make more larva spawn naturally? If its going to be automatic, might as well remove it completely. To compensate for warp gate/reactors I mean that they increase the number of naturally spawning larva and make it the amount of larva equal to the amount in the situation now, and then just scrap the whole inject mechanic, since it doesnt actually add anything to the game now.
I don't necessarily disagree with your actual opinion (why autoinject?) but I do understand why they need to keep the spawn larva (albeit nerfed)
There's a lot of different ways they could do it--but they are trying to maintain the most amount of linear evolution. "Zerg already has queens do inject, lets do easier inject" as opposed to reinventing the wheel.
|
Zerg maccro was already very easy in early game with actual metagame ... without inject, zvt will just be ridiculous as the zerg army graph will instant double the terran one at 8min mark...
The problem is that (despite metagame intial will), zerg pop has same value as T pop ...
Sad
|
I HATE the macro mechanics changes.
For all the 3 races
|
The macro changes are the best thing they've ever done to this game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
