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LotV Balance Update Preview - August 20 - Page 21

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
507 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 26 Next All
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
August 21 2015 14:36 GMT
#401
I just hope inject will be manual again in the long run, sure zerg macro will be the hardest but that feels right anyway.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1400 Posts
August 21 2015 14:37 GMT
#402
On August 21 2015 23:22 ETisME wrote:
everyone is so focused on macro mechanics, but wtf that protoss warp in change is mega huge.
warp prism is way too powerful right now.


Who knew 2 second warp in with 30 initial damage on chargelot would be powerful?!
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-21 14:39:16
August 21 2015 14:38 GMT
#403
I'm not a fan of warpgates but 16 seconds is an extreme number indeed lol

that warp prism though :o
I Protoss winner, could it be?
TimeSpiral
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1010 Posts
August 21 2015 14:41 GMT
#404
On August 21 2015 23:17 IntoTheheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2015 23:14 TimeSpiral wrote:
On August 21 2015 22:48 Pontius Pirate wrote:
On August 21 2015 22:31 Big J wrote:
On August 21 2015 22:09 Tenks wrote:
Since they're considering removing macro mechanics going forward how do you guys feel about creep? Should it be removed as well?

Creep is pretty much the type of mechanic blizzard wants to have in the game. It is completely unrelated to the 3 traditional resources (minerals, vespene, supply) and to production, is not that vital in the lower leagues (even around diamond-masters you can often get away with bad creepspread if you are just good with other stuff) but it's visually apparent who does well with it and who doesn't.

I would actually like it if the other races got something similar that somehow showcased their territory on the map and was kind of optional, yet beneficial.

Maybe Pylon power fields should be displayed on the minimap. It might also be wise to let them have an actual effect on Protoss units. Maybe jumpstarting their shield regeneration, so that they don't have to wait 10 seconds out of combat. Or maybe just a flat buff to shield regeneration rate.

I've been playing around with the idea of a small free structure that Terran could build (probably with a somewhat long build time though) that gives vision and +1 armor to any units within a range of 2 or 3. I submitted a unit based around a precursor to this idea to that thread a while back that was oriented around these small space control buildings.

Another idea I had (that potentially steps on the toes of warp-in a bit) was an idea for a building called a Relay Node that Terran can build that gets "synced" to a Barracks, whose production queue then pauses once the unit is complete, and can bring in infantry in drop pods within a very short radius, like 1 or 2. Might also give it detection or cloaking or some sort of palpable benefit in addition to providing a spawn point for units. It would have to be pretty cheap for it to be used for map control though, especially since only one Barracks could be synced per Relay Node.


I've had some similar ideas.

PARATROOPERS - Some late upgrade allows you to rally barracks to remote locations on the map (as long as you have vision). The barracks units drop from the sky in parachutes in that location. They float down for a short period, are vulnerable during this period.

SENSOR TOWER - I think we just need to modify the sensor tower a tiny bit. If it detects motion, it can also grant vision around that unit. Pull the radius in a bit.

AREA BUFFS FOR TERRAN - I actually dislike this idea, even though both Zerg and Protoss get powerful AOE buffs to their units (creep, cloaking fields, guardian shield, etc ...). With the recent nerf to bio and the SCV (MULE nerf), we could probably use a buff to our anti-ground static defense. Put the Shrike Turret upgrade in the orbital command, and allow any bunker within [x] range of an OC, to mount a Shrike Turret (this turret is similar to a marine or two).

While we're on it, I also think the hi-sec auto tracking and neo-steel frame upgrades should be moved to the Armory. Stupid that the engineering bay has nine upgrades.

PROTOSS - if you take away photon overcharge, I like your idea. Fast warp-in powerfields should also buff shields. I like that idea a lot, actually.

Are you gonna suggest a Tarmogoyf unit as well? I feel like you've been missing that opportunity for a while.


Sounds like a dig, but unfortunately I don't get it : / I bet it's really funny though!

And hey, I'm not saying my ideas or awesome, or good for the game, or balanced or anything. I'm not a game designer. Don't pretend to be one just cuz I play SC2 a lot. Just talking, sharing ideas with the community, cuz I'm lucky to be in the beta. That's all. If my ideas are shit, then *shrugs*. But some of them have been received well, most notably, the Aerial Drone for the Reaper. Cheers!
[G] Positioning, Formations, and Tactics: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187892
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19215 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-21 14:44:17
August 21 2015 14:43 GMT
#405
On August 21 2015 20:24 Swisslink wrote:
Played a few Zerg games... and I feel really stupid playing this race in its current state. I don't even know what to do half the time because there's literally nothing to do xD

I felt quite the opposite. 3 hatch before pool (and don't look back!) and you will have plenty to do in no time.

edit: I macro hatched at base too. xD
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 21 2015 14:46 GMT
#406
On August 21 2015 23:37 jinjin5000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2015 23:22 ETisME wrote:
everyone is so focused on macro mechanics, but wtf that protoss warp in change is mega huge.
warp prism is way too powerful right now.


Who knew 2 second warp in with 30 initial damage on chargelot would be powerful?!


When you unlock charge tech, zeolots should get on a psi-horse, and when they're charging, you see a psi-lance come out as they charge in.
rip passion
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-21 14:56:35
August 21 2015 14:55 GMT
#407
On August 21 2015 23:41 TimeSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2015 23:17 IntoTheheart wrote:
On August 21 2015 23:14 TimeSpiral wrote:
On August 21 2015 22:48 Pontius Pirate wrote:
On August 21 2015 22:31 Big J wrote:
On August 21 2015 22:09 Tenks wrote:
Since they're considering removing macro mechanics going forward how do you guys feel about creep? Should it be removed as well?

Creep is pretty much the type of mechanic blizzard wants to have in the game. It is completely unrelated to the 3 traditional resources (minerals, vespene, supply) and to production, is not that vital in the lower leagues (even around diamond-masters you can often get away with bad creepspread if you are just good with other stuff) but it's visually apparent who does well with it and who doesn't.

I would actually like it if the other races got something similar that somehow showcased their territory on the map and was kind of optional, yet beneficial.

Maybe Pylon power fields should be displayed on the minimap. It might also be wise to let them have an actual effect on Protoss units. Maybe jumpstarting their shield regeneration, so that they don't have to wait 10 seconds out of combat. Or maybe just a flat buff to shield regeneration rate.

I've been playing around with the idea of a small free structure that Terran could build (probably with a somewhat long build time though) that gives vision and +1 armor to any units within a range of 2 or 3. I submitted a unit based around a precursor to this idea to that thread a while back that was oriented around these small space control buildings.

Another idea I had (that potentially steps on the toes of warp-in a bit) was an idea for a building called a Relay Node that Terran can build that gets "synced" to a Barracks, whose production queue then pauses once the unit is complete, and can bring in infantry in drop pods within a very short radius, like 1 or 2. Might also give it detection or cloaking or some sort of palpable benefit in addition to providing a spawn point for units. It would have to be pretty cheap for it to be used for map control though, especially since only one Barracks could be synced per Relay Node.


I've had some similar ideas.

PARATROOPERS - Some late upgrade allows you to rally barracks to remote locations on the map (as long as you have vision). The barracks units drop from the sky in parachutes in that location. They float down for a short period, are vulnerable during this period.

SENSOR TOWER - I think we just need to modify the sensor tower a tiny bit. If it detects motion, it can also grant vision around that unit. Pull the radius in a bit.

AREA BUFFS FOR TERRAN - I actually dislike this idea, even though both Zerg and Protoss get powerful AOE buffs to their units (creep, cloaking fields, guardian shield, etc ...). With the recent nerf to bio and the SCV (MULE nerf), we could probably use a buff to our anti-ground static defense. Put the Shrike Turret upgrade in the orbital command, and allow any bunker within [x] range of an OC, to mount a Shrike Turret (this turret is similar to a marine or two).

While we're on it, I also think the hi-sec auto tracking and neo-steel frame upgrades should be moved to the Armory. Stupid that the engineering bay has nine upgrades.

PROTOSS - if you take away photon overcharge, I like your idea. Fast warp-in powerfields should also buff shields. I like that idea a lot, actually.

Are you gonna suggest a Tarmogoyf unit as well? I feel like you've been missing that opportunity for a while.


Sounds like a dig, but unfortunately I don't get it : / I bet it's really funny though!

And hey, I'm not saying my ideas or awesome, or good for the game, or balanced or anything. I'm not a game designer. Don't pretend to be one just cuz I play SC2 a lot. Just talking, sharing ideas with the community, cuz I'm lucky to be in the beta. That's all. If my ideas are shit, then *shrugs*. But some of them have been received well, most notably, the Aerial Drone for the Reaper. Cheers!

TimeSpiral was a Magic: The Gathering block, where Tarmogoyf was considered to be a marquis card, and I'm a little bored at work. Also it's early in the morning. ^__^

On August 21 2015 23:46 Deathstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2015 23:37 jinjin5000 wrote:
On August 21 2015 23:22 ETisME wrote:
everyone is so focused on macro mechanics, but wtf that protoss warp in change is mega huge.
warp prism is way too powerful right now.


Who knew 2 second warp in with 30 initial damage on chargelot would be powerful?!


When you unlock charge tech, zeolots should get on a psi-horse, and when they're charging, you see a psi-lance come out as they charge in.


It would lead to some sick puns too.
kiss kiss fall in love
AdrianHealeyy
Profile Joined June 2015
114 Posts
August 21 2015 15:01 GMT
#408
This game is so funky right now. 11 hatches, because why the fuck not?
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
August 21 2015 15:02 GMT
#409
On August 22 2015 00:01 AdrianHealeyy wrote:
This game is so funky right now. 11 hatches, because why the fuck not?

That sounds awesome! I would totally play in the beta as Z again.
Blizzard, pls. ;__;
kiss kiss fall in love
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 21 2015 15:03 GMT
#410
On August 22 2015 00:02 IntoTheheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2015 00:01 AdrianHealeyy wrote:
This game is so funky right now. 11 hatches, because why the fuck not?

That sounds awesome! I would totally play in the beta as Z again.
Blizzard, pls. ;__;


Blizzard knew you lacked passion
rip passion
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
August 21 2015 15:04 GMT
#411
On August 22 2015 00:03 Deathstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2015 00:02 IntoTheheart wrote:
On August 22 2015 00:01 AdrianHealeyy wrote:
This game is so funky right now. 11 hatches, because why the fuck not?

That sounds awesome! I would totally play in the beta as Z again.
Blizzard, pls. ;__;


Blizzard knew you lacked passion

Everyone knows that I have no passion. It's such a part of me that pretty girls at parties even can tell.
kiss kiss fall in love
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 21 2015 15:06 GMT
#412
On August 22 2015 00:04 IntoTheheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2015 00:03 Deathstar wrote:
On August 22 2015 00:02 IntoTheheart wrote:
On August 22 2015 00:01 AdrianHealeyy wrote:
This game is so funky right now. 11 hatches, because why the fuck not?

That sounds awesome! I would totally play in the beta as Z again.
Blizzard, pls. ;__;


Blizzard knew you lacked passion

Everyone knows that I have no passion. It's such a part of me that pretty girls at parties even can tell.


It's a cycle of no passion leading to no passon
rip passion
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
August 21 2015 15:06 GMT
#413
On August 22 2015 00:06 Deathstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2015 00:04 IntoTheheart wrote:
On August 22 2015 00:03 Deathstar wrote:
On August 22 2015 00:02 IntoTheheart wrote:
On August 22 2015 00:01 AdrianHealeyy wrote:
This game is so funky right now. 11 hatches, because why the fuck not?

That sounds awesome! I would totally play in the beta as Z again.
Blizzard, pls. ;__;


Blizzard knew you lacked passion

Everyone knows that I have no passion. It's such a part of me that pretty girls at parties even can tell.


It's a cycle of no passion leading to no passon

It's not a cycle unless things happen to go back to where they started - also like me talking to pretty girls at parties.
kiss kiss fall in love
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-21 15:09:36
August 21 2015 15:07 GMT
#414
On August 21 2015 17:40 [PkF] Wire wrote:
LOL what the fuck did they do with the immortal model ??? (produce an immortal in game, maybe on low settings, to understand)

Otherwise the warp-in change really sucks at least aesthetically and elegance wise. Don't tell me all those circles aren't confusing.

Haven't played enough to have an opinion about the other changes, but removal of chrono does not feel so strange. Autocast is stupid per se, but the toning down of macro mechanics is a step in the right direction, most definitely. Just have hatcheries produce slightly more larvae, lairs and hives producing at a higher rate, and encourage Z players to have macro hatches. Creep, transfuse, and early air/ranged defence are enough of an incentive for any Z player to get queens without that dumb autocast thing.

Yeah I think that's some sort of bug, hilarious to watch though.

3/4 zergs in Ro4 for the latest LotV smilecup. Mostly talks about the state of PvZ though, not enough terrans participating in general.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8908 Posts
August 21 2015 15:12 GMT
#415
Idk I haven't actually gotten to play zerg yet but I was watching vibe play and I'm pretty sure he was fighting another zerg for around 3-5 minutes straight constantly microing roach lurker vs roach ravager.

You wouldn't see that before the changes bc both players would have to pull back to safely split.

That said, it would be a nightmare to cast the same kiting micro over and over for 3 minutes lol
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Aocowns
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway6070 Posts
August 21 2015 15:25 GMT
#416
automated injects feels so lame, holy shit ;;
I'd prefer removed inject with higher larvae spawning by default or by upgrade or something just for the fact that it wouldnt feel so lame lol

would be kinda cool though, making hatcheries and then morphing them into some specialized larvae lounge

The medievac change sounds plain annoying, theres too much speed going on for too long somewhere there imo, remember when people actually praised a good drop player? (WoL gumiho for example)
I'm a salt-lord and hater of mech and ForGG, don't take me seriously, it's just my salt-humour speaking i swear. |KadaverBB best TL gaoler| |~IdrA's #1 fan~| SetGuitarsToKill and Duckk are my martyr heroes |
TimeSpiral
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1010 Posts
August 21 2015 15:40 GMT
#417
On August 22 2015 00:25 Aocowns wrote:
automated injects feels so lame, holy shit ;;
I'd prefer removed inject with higher larvae spawning by default or by upgrade or something just for the fact that it wouldnt feel so lame lol

would be kinda cool though, making hatcheries and then morphing them into some specialized larvae lounge

The medievac change sounds plain annoying, theres too much speed going on for too long somewhere there imo, remember when people actually praised a good drop player? (WoL gumiho for example)


The problem is that adjusting the hatches to produce the larva you "need" would be wildly OP. Spawn Larva was already wildly OP in certain scenarios. I think what will end up happening is Zergs find the right number of macro hatches to add on, and you'll have more larva than you know what to do with, for less APM.
[G] Positioning, Formations, and Tactics: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187892
Aocowns
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway6070 Posts
August 21 2015 15:44 GMT
#418
On August 22 2015 00:40 TimeSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2015 00:25 Aocowns wrote:
automated injects feels so lame, holy shit ;;
I'd prefer removed inject with higher larvae spawning by default or by upgrade or something just for the fact that it wouldnt feel so lame lol

would be kinda cool though, making hatcheries and then morphing them into some specialized larvae lounge

The medievac change sounds plain annoying, theres too much speed going on for too long somewhere there imo, remember when people actually praised a good drop player? (WoL gumiho for example)


The problem is that adjusting the hatches to produce the larva you "need" would be wildly OP. Spawn Larva was already wildly OP in certain scenarios. I think what will end up happening is Zergs find the right number of macro hatches to add on, and you'll have more larva than you know what to do with, for less APM.

oh yeah probably, was just thinking out loud. The coolness of zerg was lowered greatly by the hand-holding feeling of auto injects to me
I'm a salt-lord and hater of mech and ForGG, don't take me seriously, it's just my salt-humour speaking i swear. |KadaverBB best TL gaoler| |~IdrA's #1 fan~| SetGuitarsToKill and Duckk are my martyr heroes |
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8908 Posts
August 21 2015 15:48 GMT
#419
just take advantage of it and focus on other aspects of the game like creep spread and finding holes to harass in.

i think that once people get used to it and find themselves micro'ing a lot more, it'll get better.

i've always been a little jealous of how other races could produce at full power without really taking their eyes off their units except occasionally while they're pushing or harassing.
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 21 2015 15:55 GMT
#420
On August 22 2015 00:48 BluemoonSC wrote:
just take advantage of it and focus on other aspects of the game like creep spread and finding holes to harass in.

i think that once people get used to it and find themselves micro'ing a lot more, it'll get better.

i've always been a little jealous of how other races could produce at full power without really taking their eyes off their units except occasionally while they're pushing or harassing.

If the main thing is that you have to look away while injecting change that, and don't remove manual injecting altogether.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
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