EPTOn August 09 2015 11:27 covetousrat wrote:
LOTV=Warcraft 4
LOTV=Warcraft 4
Team Grubby incoming hype!!!
Why lowering the mechanics is a good thing - Page 9
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mantequilla
Turkey781 Posts
Team Grubby incoming hype!!! | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3561 Posts
On August 09 2015 15:28 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: There is already too easy mechanics in this game, koreans are very close in skill mechanically. Please don't remove the last bit of skill from the game.. Broodwar was so amazing because pro's themselves couldn't even play perfect so there was more room to outplay your opponent. Good thing LotV is harder. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
That being said, I'm totally fine with experimentation on cutting down macro mechanics. That could indeed fit LotV quite well. But I want to stop reading bullshit like "too hard to understand for viewers" or "not obvious enough" in community updates, that really sets my teeth on edge. SC2 is a hard, complex and rewarding game, it should not try to copy other more succesful games. People would be playing soccer with chess pieces nowadays with that mentality. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
You have to constantly expand and maynarde your workers. You have to defend more bases much earlier Theres tons (TONS) more harras and agressive options Everything is fast as fuck I would agree removing the mechanics would make the game much easier in HotS, where everything is slower, third are rarely taken (in the zerg case 4th) before the 10 min mark unless its a really greedy build, harass is less strong and you usually have to chose between macro or agression, you can stay in 3 bases pretty much an entire millennia. In LotV by the 10 min mark you already have a third, have some type of harras going, have to defend enemy harass, have a lot of production already and your main is already starting to mine out (at least half patches). So yeah doing this HotS would definitely would make the game easier. But LotV? LotV is a whole different beast. | ||
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Kabras
Romania3508 Posts
On August 12 2015 21:45 [PkF] Wire wrote: SC2 should give up on trying to please casuals and focus on its hardcore fanbase. People won't come back / suddenly become interested just because you cut down injects and MULEs. SC2 won't be the number 1 e-sports, but it can be the best game, and that's what they should focus on instead of trying to please "viewers" and "casuals". Success of the game should be a side effect of its quality. That being said, I'm totally fine with experimentation on cutting down macro mechanics. That could indeed fit LotV quite well. But I want to stop reading bullshit like "too hard to understand for viewers" or "not obvious enough" in community updates, that really sets my teeth on edge. SC2 is a hard, complex and rewarding game, it should not try to copy other more succesful games. People would be playing soccer with chess pieces nowadays with that mentality. except the success of the game is anything but a side effect of it's quality and all your suggestions would bring sc2 to esport bankruptcy. blizzard needs the games they create to generate income else they're not worth creating. the game won't do that with 20k hardcore master league players, it will do that with 20 million bronze league scrubs that have fun playing it, follow the pro scene, the streams and throw money at tournaments. ur idea of how it should look is an elitist's utopia that will kill the game fast and bring it to the same exact state that wc3 is in now. 8-9 k players on battle.net, couple other thousands on wc3arena and that's it. meanwhile, mobas, shooters and card games will still be making endless trunks of money cuz their target audience isn't limited to snide elitist assholes. | ||
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
Macro will become less frustrating, but the overall game will stay just as hard. Think about this. Archon mode has shown us that you can use 2 progamers controlling a race, and you will be significantly stronger. Lets put it in theoretical numbers. Starcraft skill has a cap of 500 actions Korean progamers can reach a skill of 300 actions Right now, he is spending 200 on macro and 100 on control and decisions Later he will be spending 150 on macro and 150 on control and decisions. Overall, he is still equally as advantaged over a master player with 200 the game does not get easier if you are not at the skillcap | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On August 12 2015 21:45 [PkF] Wire wrote: SC2 should give up on trying to please casuals and focus on its hardcore fanbase. People won't come back / suddenly become interested just because you cut down injects and MULEs. SC2 won't be the number 1 e-sports, but it can be the best game, and that's what they should focus on instead of trying to please "viewers" and "casuals". Success of the game should be a side effect of its quality. That being said, I'm totally fine with experimentation on cutting down macro mechanics. That could indeed fit LotV quite well. But I want to stop reading bullshit like "too hard to understand for viewers" or "not obvious enough" in community updates, that really sets my teeth on edge. SC2 is a hard, complex and rewarding game, it should not try to copy other more succesful games. People would be playing soccer with chess pieces nowadays with that mentality. ^ A whole lot of no. The term "casual" has become so pejorative in this community, it drives me batty. Try this: every time you want to use the word "casual" use the word "customer", or "fan" instead, or even "viewer". Try it. "Blizzard should top trying to please their customers." --HA! "Blizzard should really stop trying to enhance fans' enjoyment of the game." --HA! "Blizzard should stop trying to entertain their viewers at spectator events." --HA! Believe me, you really, really need and want the "casuals". It's kinda the whole point of it all. | ||
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iloveav
Poland1484 Posts
Making the game funier fo casual players. It makes the game less fun for professionals (more boring). If there are no pros, there wont be a professional sc2 scene. Thats a fact. | ||
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iloveav
Poland1484 Posts
On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote: No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft. More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft. That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport. Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments. And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. If the game is too easy, Pros will be bored of it and retire (its already happening, since the game is too easy). In that case, no amount of casual gamers will make the scen survive, as they will not want to watch other casual players play. Your statement assumes that pros are there only for the money. If thats the case, they would be working in a different field. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
On August 13 2015 03:09 iloveav wrote: If the game is too easy, Pros will be bored of it and retire (its already happening, since the game is too easy). In that case, no amount of casual gamers will make the scen survive, as they will not want to watch other casual players play. Your statement assumes that pros are there only for the money. If thats the case, they would be working in a different field. And yours that these changes make the game too easy and boring. 2 pros using a single army and managing a single base already have a hard time doing all the necesary actions to play at a "near perfect level" what makes you think that the game is going to be any easier if they are just doing away with a few actions? The game is not going to turn into Nexus Wars because of this. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On August 13 2015 03:05 iloveav wrote: You said it yourself: Making the game funier fo casual players. It makes the game less fun for professionals (more boring). If there are no pros, there wont be a professional sc2 scene. Thats a fact. you mean like league of legends has no professionals? | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On August 13 2015 21:43 Sapphire.lux wrote: I played BW a lot back in the day and i never even knew there was a community or what macro was. As long as the opponent is just as bad as you and the units in play are interesting, that's all it matters. I even have friends that treat SC2 the same. The thing that makes people stop playing or whine that macro is hard, are the ones that want to be considered good, but are not willing to learn. I blame the league system. Well said, except for maybe that last bit. "Macro" just means "non-army stuff", basically. 1995, back in the Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness days, I remember revolutionizing our local multiplayer scene--once you actually got the multiplayer to work, which was almost impossible. My friends couldn't figure out why I was unbeatable, and it was because I realized you could build additional Town Halls near other gold mines! Ha. Who woulda thunk. And of course I kept this secret, lol. There was no way to know to do this. No pro scene. No ladder. No bnet. No articles on how to play multiplayer. Nothing. Ugh ... kinda weird to think I built my 1 rax Grunt Expansion twenty years ago ... whoa. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
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Boneyard0216
Canada32 Posts
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NeoBlade
Germany262 Posts
Starcraft skill has a cap of 500 actions Korean progamers can reach a skill of 300 actions Right now, he is spending 200 on macro and 100 on control and decisions Later he will be spending 150 on macro and 150 on control and decisions. Overall, he is still equally as advantaged over a master player with 200 the game does not get easier if you are not at the skillcap /THIS I think I will just wait for the next Patch to see what it's like to play without Inject. Mechanics like Creep will still apply. But I liked injecting. | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On August 13 2015 02:21 TimeSpiral wrote: ^ A whole lot of no. The term "casual" has become so pejorative in this community, it drives me batty. Try this: every time you want to use the word "casual" use the word "customer", or "fan" instead, or even "viewer". Try it. "Blizzard should top trying to please their customers." --HA! "Blizzard should really stop trying to enhance fans' enjoyment of the game." --HA! "Blizzard should stop trying to entertain their viewers at spectator events." --HA! Believe me, you really, really need and want the "casuals". It's kinda the whole point of it all. Or better! Let's do it with "rainbow-puking dragons". "Blizzard should stop trying to please their rainbow-puking dragons."--HA! "Blizzard should really stop trying to enhance rainbow-puking dragons' enjoyment of the game."--HA! "Blizzard should stop trying to entertain their rainbow-puking dragons' enjoyment of the game."--HA! | ||
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Redfish
United States142 Posts
On August 12 2015 21:45 [PkF] Wire wrote: SC2 should give up on trying to please casuals and focus on its hardcore fanbase. People won't come back / suddenly become interested just because you cut down injects and MULEs. Only if they want the game to dwindle and die slowly and LotV to be a financial failure (which could be discouraging to Blizzard developing a Starcraft 3, should one ever come out in the distant future). Blizzard fans might give the new expansion a shot if only for the campaign, and might stick around if they give multiplayer a chance and find that it isn't insanely difficult to learn and if they can play Archon mode with friends (who may be experienced and help them along). That would be fantastic. Practically every game that has focused only on pleasing the hardcore players at the expense of casuals has crashed horribly. There's no reason to think SC2 will be different. | ||
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Redfish
United States142 Posts
On August 13 2015 03:09 iloveav wrote: If the game is too easy, Pros will be bored of it and retire (its already happening, since the game is too easy). In that case, no amount of casual gamers will make the scen survive, as they will not want to watch other casual players play. Your statement assumes that pros are there only for the money. If thats the case, they would be working in a different field. This is nonsense. You think players are quitting and going to Heroes/LoL/DotA because SC2 is too easy and those games are harder? Maybe it has to do with the fact that those games sell out sports arenas and soccer stadiums, while SC2 can't fill a convention center stage. Maybe it has to do with the fact that you can make more money by splitting the top prize of DotA's International one time than you could by winning this season's WCS 40 times. Pros love the game for the game, but money does talk, especially when it's that loud. And do you know how that much money gets into those games? CASUALS. There are Pros no matter how simple or APM-intensive a game is, and casuals will always pay to watch them. We need to court the casual player, not look down our nose at them as unworthy of our game due to its current difficulty. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On August 14 2015 03:58 Karpfen wrote: Or better! Let's do it with "rainbow-puking dragons". "Blizzard should stop trying to please their rainbow-puking dragons."--HA! "Blizzard should really stop trying to enhance rainbow-puking dragons' enjoyment of the game."--HA! "Blizzard should stop trying to entertain their rainbow-puking dragons' enjoyment of the game."--HA! you're trying too hard  | ||
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