• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:44
CEST 21:44
KST 04:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun4[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists19[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament INu's Battles#14 <BO.9 2Matches> GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
JaeDong's ASL S21 Ro16 Post-Review BW General Discussion [ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors ASL21 General Discussion Leta's ASL S21 Ro.16 review
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro8 Day 1 [ASL21] Ro16 Group D
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV Total Annihilation Server - TAForever
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2788 users

Why lowering the mechanics is a good thing - Page 10

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
NeoBlade
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Germany262 Posts
August 13 2015 23:18 GMT
#181
Maybe it has to do with the fact that those games sell out sports arenas and soccer stadiums, while SC2 can't fill a convention center stage. Maybe it has to do with the fact that you can make more money by splitting the top prize of DotA's International one time than you could by winning this season's WCS 40 times. Pros love the game for the game, but money does talk, especially when it's that loud.


/THIS
http://youtube.com/NeoBladeSC2
TimeSpiral
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1010 Posts
August 14 2015 00:28 GMT
#182
On August 14 2015 06:20 ROOTFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2015 03:58 Karpfen wrote:
On August 13 2015 02:21 TimeSpiral wrote:
On August 12 2015 21:45 [PkF] Wire wrote:
SC2 should give up on trying to please casuals and focus on its hardcore fanbase. People won't come back / suddenly become interested just because you cut down injects and MULEs. SC2 won't be the number 1 e-sports, but it can be the best game, and that's what they should focus on instead of trying to please "viewers" and "casuals". Success of the game should be a side effect of its quality.

That being said, I'm totally fine with experimentation on cutting down macro mechanics. That could indeed fit LotV quite well. But I want to stop reading bullshit like "too hard to understand for viewers" or "not obvious enough" in community updates, that really sets my teeth on edge. SC2 is a hard, complex and rewarding game, it should not try to copy other more succesful games. People would be playing soccer with chess pieces nowadays with that mentality.


^ A whole lot of no.

The term "casual" has become so pejorative in this community, it drives me batty. Try this: every time you want to use the word "casual" use the word "customer", or "fan" instead, or even "viewer". Try it.

"Blizzard should top trying to please their customers." --HA!

"Blizzard should really stop trying to enhance fans' enjoyment of the game." --HA!

"Blizzard should stop trying to entertain their viewers at spectator events." --HA!


Believe me, you really, really need and want the "casuals". It's kinda the whole point of it all.

Or better! Let's do it with "rainbow-puking dragons".

"Blizzard should stop trying to please their rainbow-puking dragons."--HA!

"Blizzard should really stop trying to enhance rainbow-puking dragons' enjoyment of the game."--HA!

"Blizzard should stop trying to entertain their rainbow-puking dragons' enjoyment of the game."--HA!

you're trying too hard


But at least he used the hyphen correctly in his compound modifier. There's that.
[G] Positioning, Formations, and Tactics: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187892
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 14 2015 01:56 GMT
#183
This game isn't becoming casual. This game is far from casual. Macro can be more aggressively simplified like auto build workers and it'll still be the most competitive game aroubd
rip passion
YyapSsap
Profile Joined September 2010
New Zealand1511 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-14 04:03:36
August 14 2015 03:59 GMT
#184
Im just going to throw out there that it ISN'T all about ladder.

You don't need a massive ladder base to be popular. If my memory serves me right, casuals and alot of them don't care about ladder because theyll be playing all sorts of custom games with friends. Same thing with warcraft 3 and SC:BW. I mean I must've spent way more time playing custom games with friends in WC3 than ladder games (even though I had the many icons including the spellbreaker one woot^^)

Its like saying all the soccer fans in the world, who watch the sport all have decent soccer skills according to some of the posters here.

What makes the game popular are basically:
1) Awesome single player campaign
2) Very simple and social multiplayer interface
3) Loads of custom games where its easy to find, create and play
4) A ladder system for the serious
5) Interesting ingame content (unit relationships, strategy etc)

If the game content is good and hits most of the points above, casuals will play the game regardless. Esports based on that game is just an icying on the cake imo. I know some of you don't like BW comparisons but just think about the following points.

Awesome as hell single player campaign that some people still go back and play to this day (so many cool characters!). Simple and easy multiplayer interface that was ahead of the curve back in the day. Many many custom games that catered toward many groups of casuals and even the serious during ladder breaks. Interesting ingame dynamics that literally took esports to a whole new level because the skill ceiling was so huge. If they had a proper ladder system incoporated in BNET it also would've been huge.

SC2 lacks so many of those. A love story between the queen of blades and jim raynor(what?)? BNET 0.2(where am i??)? deathablls (99% of the reasons why one lost = **** BS)? Im going to make customs games.. what is this arcade junk?? just link the dots. It has come a long way and things have improved but I doubt this game could last mere 5 years on its own without future expansions of some sort just to jump start the franchise.

Edit - Oh and imho lowering the skill ceiling in ladder is a bad bad thing because it limits the proscene. The "wow" factor will not be there. No one will truly be dominant due it being too hard to differentiate ones skills against others.
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 16m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 472
IndyStarCraft 126
UpATreeSC 121
JuggernautJason70
MindelVK 39
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 14409
ggaemo 229
910 24
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
NaDa 10
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps2359
fl0m2064
byalli1030
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu324
Other Games
Grubby6291
summit1g1964
B2W.Neo432
C9.Mang0209
ArmadaUGS154
elazer150
Pyrionflax142
QueenE109
Trikslyr42
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV268
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream185
StarCraft 2
angryscii 28
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2794
League of Legends
• TFBlade881
Other Games
• imaqtpie2013
• Shiphtur291
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
4h 16m
GSL
13h 46m
Rogue vs Percival
Zoun vs Solar
Replay Cast
1d 4h
GSL
1d 13h
Cure vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Bunny
KCM Race Survival
1d 14h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Escore
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
4 days
IPSL
4 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Snow vs Flash
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W4
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.