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On July 11 2015 10:44 ImYourHuckleberry wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 03:50 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:
To much focust on Terran, a race that is already complete.
Instead of changeing stuff for Zerg and Protoss that have useless units and design problems.
TerranCraft... What? Terran is probably the race which is most lacking in diversity: It has been non-stop bio balls since WoL; I respect the few people that try to mech. If you even look at Terran in HOTS today, compared to WoL, there is little that changed to the core race. Unlike Protoss that received the MSC, Tempest and Oracles while Zerg armies were complimented with Vipers, Swarmhosts, Muta Regenation and an upgraded Hydras. Terran by far is the most stale race and needs the most attention. There was no truly innovative unit introduced in HoTS (unlike P and Z). It is clear Blizzard wanted to give them additional, innovative units, with their attempt to release the Warhound...but failed miserably.
I think the point is more that Terran feels like the most cohesive and synergistic race, not that it is the most diverse. Marine, marauder, medivac is so common because each unit complements the other two so well. That's why Terran hasn't really changed since WoL, because they were already "complete." It's hard to add anything new that isn't either gimmicky or overpowered.
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On July 11 2015 10:57 grogburg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 10:44 ImYourHuckleberry wrote:On July 11 2015 03:50 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:
To much focust on Terran, a race that is already complete.
Instead of changeing stuff for Zerg and Protoss that have useless units and design problems.
TerranCraft... What? Terran is probably the race which is most lacking in diversity: It has been non-stop bio balls since WoL; I respect the few people that try to mech. If you even look at Terran in HOTS today, compared to WoL, there is little that changed to the core race. Unlike Protoss that received the MSC, Tempest and Oracles while Zerg armies were complimented with Vipers, Swarmhosts, Muta Regenation and an upgraded Hydras. Terran by far is the most stale race and needs the most attention. There was no truly innovative unit introduced in HoTS (unlike P and Z). It is clear Blizzard wanted to give them additional, innovative units, with their attempt to release the Warhound...but failed miserably. I think the point is more that Terran feels like the most cohesive and synergistic race, not that it is the most diverse. Marine, marauder, medivac is so common because each unit complements the other two so well. That's why Terran hasn't really changed since WoL, because they were already "complete." It's hard to add anything new that isn't either gimmicky or overpowered.
No, no it isn't, I always laugh at how people see that "but bio is so strong you don't need anything else!!!"
Yeah, we have that with colossus, see how that turns out.
Yeah bio is good, well rounded etc. But that doesn't mean everything is good, luckily terran has the bio - mech dichotomy, so you can definitively make mech a viable playstyle without any significant change to bio play.
Also, theres nothing wrong with having diverse playstyles, every race should have them, terrans get tired of MMM all games too you know?
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I'm loving the weekly updates. Seriously though what is with buffing the medivac lol. It is literally a god unit. Buff the tank instead or something
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I love the direction of map diversity, but I hope they go even further and loosen up some of the restrictions they have. For example, having mineral-only bases or locations with 1, 3 or 4 gases. I feel like giving maps more power to balance the game would take out the pressure of having to balance patch as often once LotV is released. So instead of the Warp Prism buff we saw, maybe we just see maps with more dead space and in general encourage easier and safer drop play.
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I like the cyclone changes.
About the medivac : WHAT THE ACTUAL ****?
"More harass in the late game with bio"? The whole bio play is already about harasment, counter attacks and trade base scenarii. In WoL, when a terran went bio he had the option to upgrade his frontal attack power with tank addition : since the game and units are going much faster in LOTV, right now the tank is kinda crappy, and bio need a smoother transition into something that give them more power in battle at the cost of mobility. The idea to make the ghost a support caster that fits this role (less mobility more frontal power) in TvZ as it does in TvP is a good one. Increasing harass in the late game is a terrible idea.
Just remove the marauder nerf, and make the tank deal much more single target damage against massive already. Buffing greatly its damage against massive would make the late game against zerg interesting (tank addition to counter ultralisks, viper/BL use to counter tanks), and TvP mech more viable (archons would be targetable so they don't shred hellbats).
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The way to buff bio is to buff siege tank single target dmg against big units so siege tanks are actually good to be incorporated into bio play. Now Siege Tank don't have their designated upgrade anymore, how about giving them an upgrade to +dmg vs massive?
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On July 11 2015 09:53 DeadByDawn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 09:09 Shuffleblade wrote:
Combining upgrades was a stupid decision from the start and re-merging them 50% now is equally bad.
They don't buff mech, they buff an air transition after going mech initally. These kinds of indirect buffs that just buffs things in specific scenarios stiffles variety, creativty and growth of the game. If mech isn't viable without this it still wont be viable with it, what they make viable is an air style that relies on mech to survive the early/mid game and transitions into air. You want to see the same games over and over? I don't, please buff things if you want to buff things, don't make "if you do x and then y and stand at b then your x units will be stronger" that isn't a general buff it make the game very very one dimenional and as hundreds of games have proven repetetive. But this is what I liked about the combined upgrades. It meant that I could go a small number of bio to survive the very early game (Oracles, etc), whilst getting a mech force together and then transition to air late game. It felt a lot more interesting than just being stuck on bio. Terrans have been saying that they cannot transition for some time and the combined upgrades helped that a bit. Combined armour is probably OK.
It IS a lot more interesting than being stuck on bio, but the problem is that both air and mech should be viable by themselves. Not only viable if you do bio into mech into air transitions at specific timings. The strategy you describe is good but its not good when they make it the only mech strategy that is viable then instead of being tired of bio being stale we will get tired of this style too. Which I already am. There should be lots of different viable strategies that leads to lots of different situations and games, as it is now Blizz is saying, We want strategy a) b) and c) to be common so we buff them, that really dumbs down the game. Its not their role to decide which strategies are viable (besides taking out totally op or abusive strats).
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How about a permanent medivac speed boost as an upgrade (as opposed to an active ability with cooldown without the upgrade) ? All other races drop tech have incredibly buffed in LOTV (warp prism pickup, 25/25 overlord drop tech) so its fair that Terran gets one too.
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No polls? 
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Marauder still nerfed for some reason.
We could turn the ghost into something useful, but meh, let's make it a counter to ultralisks because we won't revert the marauder nerf, because, well, you know, eh..
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On July 11 2015 17:23 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 09:53 DeadByDawn wrote:On July 11 2015 09:09 Shuffleblade wrote:
Combining upgrades was a stupid decision from the start and re-merging them 50% now is equally bad.
They don't buff mech, they buff an air transition after going mech initally. These kinds of indirect buffs that just buffs things in specific scenarios stiffles variety, creativty and growth of the game. If mech isn't viable without this it still wont be viable with it, what they make viable is an air style that relies on mech to survive the early/mid game and transitions into air. You want to see the same games over and over? I don't, please buff things if you want to buff things, don't make "if you do x and then y and stand at b then your x units will be stronger" that isn't a general buff it make the game very very one dimenional and as hundreds of games have proven repetetive. But this is what I liked about the combined upgrades. It meant that I could go a small number of bio to survive the very early game (Oracles, etc), whilst getting a mech force together and then transition to air late game. It felt a lot more interesting than just being stuck on bio. Terrans have been saying that they cannot transition for some time and the combined upgrades helped that a bit. Combined armour is probably OK. It IS a lot more interesting than being stuck on bio, but the problem is that both air and mech should be viable by themselves. Not only viable if you do bio into mech into air transitions at specific timings. The strategy you describe is good but its not good when they make it the only mech strategy that is viable then instead of being tired of bio being stale we will get tired of this style too. Which I already am. There should be lots of different viable strategies that leads to lots of different situations and games, as it is now Blizz is saying, We want strategy a) b) and c) to be common so we buff them, that really dumbs down the game. Its not their role to decide which strategies are viable (besides taking out totally op or abusive strats).
I agree with you, but I do not have faith in their ability to make them viable by themselves. Thus I was upset when they split the upgrades as it basically forced bio on you. At least this way there is a transition path, even if it is a prescribed one.
TBH I think that I am at the point where I will learn to play P&Z to shake things up once in a while. This might not be a bad thing.
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Blizzad, why do you hate the tank?
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Please don't buff the medivac.
These updates are amazing though, good job Blizzard!
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United States4883 Posts
On July 11 2015 11:43 Little-Chimp wrote:
I'm loving the weekly updates. Seriously though what is with buffing the medivac lol. It is literally a god unit. Buff the tank instead or something
I'm all on board with this sentiment. These weekly updates are simply incredible.
However, I have no idea why Blizzard thinks the medivac needs even further versatility. It's not even that it's a "strong unit", but that it does everything well. It would be better to give more diverse roles to units like the siege tank or viking in order to indirectly buff mech and promote more unit diversity within games  .
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On July 12 2015 00:23 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 11:43 Little-Chimp wrote:
I'm loving the weekly updates. Seriously though what is with buffing the medivac lol. It is literally a god unit. Buff the tank instead or something I'm all on board with this sentiment. These weekly updates are simply incredible. However, I have no idea why Blizzard thinks the medivac needs even further versatility. It's not even that it's a "strong unit", but that it does everything well. It would be better to give more diverse roles to units like the siege tank or viking in order to indirectly buff mech and promote more unit diversity within games .
Swap the medivac buff for a stronger Viking and faster transform any day. In the early days when everyone was a noob I loved sniping mineral lines with a Viking raiding party. Sadly those days are gone - people are more mini-map aware and Vikings melt pretty quick against most things.
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call me a C&C fan boy if you want to but, damn it i want a better Tank...
btw, the Raider Buggies and Orcas are working out great in LotV!
On July 12 2015 00:23 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 11:43 Little-Chimp wrote:
I'm loving the weekly updates. Seriously though what is with buffing the medivac lol. It is literally a god unit. Buff the tank instead or something I'm all on board with this sentiment. These weekly updates are simply incredible. However, I have no idea why Blizzard thinks the medivac needs even further versatility. It's not even that it's a "strong unit", but that it does everything well. It would be better to give more diverse roles to units like the siege tank or viking in order to indirectly buff mech and promote more unit diversity within games .
won't implementing Turret tracking make the Tank a better unit in the hands of a good player?
On July 11 2015 11:43 Little-Chimp wrote:
I'm loving the weekly updates. Seriously though what is with buffing the medivac lol. It is literally a god unit. Buff the tank instead or something
i was thinking they could add detection as well and rename them Detecto-Vacs or maybe Vessel-Vacs
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call me a C&C fan boy if you want to but, damn it i want a better Tank.
I'd switch in an instant to terran if they turned the cyclone into some form of medium tank. Gosh, why even call the siege tank siege tank if there is no second form of tank anyways.
Oh and give me a fucking Terror Drone. How could Dustin Browder not force his most glorious creation into the game.
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won't implementing Turret tracking make the Tank a better unit in the hands of a good player?
Nah this will barely matter.
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I just want to jump on the bandwagon, I love the weekly updates.
The vibe in these is so much more positive in these forums after a couple weeks of this.
I have said this before, but I too don't think medvacs need a buff. They are already an incredible unit.
If you are just looking at usage in LOTV beta games, consider that many people still don't play the beta (I have no idea how many), but that medvac usage might increase when numbers increase.
I also really love that you are focusing on stuff like turret tracking. Those kind of changes I feel will impact the game much more than buffing an individual unit.
On July 12 2015 03:45 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +
won't implementing Turret tracking make the Tank a better unit in the hands of a good player?
Nah this will barely matter.
I think you underestimate these kind of changes. And maybe I'm wrong, it's hard for me to understand how much impact something like this will have.
Does anyone understand the level of impact with the turret tracking change?
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The map diversity improves my viewing experience, but that is not why I have bought the game. So many strange new maps only adds even more suspense and stress to the game, if there was, let´s say, one unconventional addition and one fairly normal, I would be fine, look at the unconventional one, have a quick glance at the normal one and just get into multiplayer, but 4 new strange maps, I just don´t have time to go thru them one by one, and when I just went into matchmaking, the game was really uncomfortable and after it, I still didn´t know the map, really not happy with such a quick changes.
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