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LOTV Beta: Balance Update Preview June 9

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
297 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 13 14 15 Next All
massivez
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium653 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-12 18:14:29
June 12 2015 17:58 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Before we talk about specific changes coming in the next balance patch, we’d like to cover a few topics.

Big Changes on the Way

First, there’s a common misconception that after all the changes we’re implementing as we transition from Heart of the Swarm to Legacy of the Void, we’re planning to make the game completely different with each patch after release.

When we say the game will change with each patch, we’re referring to the big picture. When you compare Heart of the Swarm to the current state of Legacy of the Void, the changes are profound. This means we need even more time testing and iterating to make sure that these major changes work well.

Completely remaking the game with each patch is impossible—what we’re saying is that we will continue to iterate on major changes with future patches, and these changes will have a great impact on the game. We’re definitely not saying we won’t be trying new, big things in the beta—we clearly are and will continue to do so.

But we need to spend a lot more time working on, testing, and polishing the huge changes we’ve already implemented, and although it may be more fun to only try crazy new things that would make the game completely different, that’s not the purpose of this beta.


General Changes

  • Archon Mode Update

    Second, we’d like to tackle Archon mode and any necessary improvements to how players will control shared units in StarCraft II. We’ve been exploring various options, including your suggestions. After many discussions and test sessions, we decided to abide by this rule:

    “Only make changes that can’t be handled by good communication.”

    Archon mode is a mode where you only play with arranged teams. And part of an arranged team’s skill—not just in Archon mode, but as a whole—is good communication.

    So far, we have one Archon-friendly change that we’re exploring:

    When you select units and use the Alt + (number) command, those units are added to that number’s corresponding control group, and removed from other control groups.

    This change addresses a common situation in Archon mode where one player is controlling a bunch of units when that player’s teammate wants to take a few of those units off to harass the enemy from another direction. Currently, there’s no easy way to do this.

    For example:

    Player A is controlling all Marines and Medivacs and needs to focus on the main attack
    Player B wants to take 2 Medivacs and 16 Marines for a Medivac drop harassment

    In this scenario, Player A would have to add 16 Marines and 2 Medivacs to Player B’s control group. Player B would then have to figure out which 16 Marines and 2 Medivacs Player A removed from their control group.

    With our proposed alteration to how control groups are handled in cooperative games, after the strategy has been communicated, Player B can Alt control group the 16 Marines and Medivacs without having to interrupt Player A. This is something we’re currently working on, and it won’t make it to the next balance update, but we’ll try our best to get it out to the beta test as soon as possible for testing.



  • Minimap Improvements

    Third, we’d like to address potential improvements to the Minimap. We haven’t begun testing anything in this area, but we’d like to share our perspective so that we can gather initial player feedback.

    We are looking at two areas of potential improvement. One is the issue of destructible rocks and towers not showing up on the Minimap—this can be confusing, especially on newer maps. Because we cycle through maps faster now, we feel that this would be a good thing to address before the Legacy of the Void launch.

    We’re also looking at displaying spawn locations more clearly in-game. We have more and more maps, mostly in 1v1, where there are special case rules for possible spawn location such as diagonal spawn locations only or vertical spawn locations only. With many new maps coming in every season, it’s something we feel should be addressed. One way we could do this would be to ping the Minimap at the start of the game to indicate all potential enemy spawn locations. This way, we wouldn’t have to explain anything to the players through text—they’ll know where to scout by tracking the ping locations.

Balance Changes

  • New Ghost Ability

    Ghosts would gain a new ability that spawns a flying drone on an enemy target. That drone would channel a beam at the enemy unit, reducing its Armor by 3. The drone would have a fixed duration and can be attacked and killed. The main purpose of this ability is to help Terran bio armies better deal with a current weakness—high armor targets.

  • Ghost Movement Speed Increase

    We’d like to try this one out to see if Ghosts can be better combined with other bio units.

  • Individual Overlord Transport Upgrades

    After testing out this popular suggestion, we decided to give it a go during the beta. We feel that with the Nydus Worm changes in Legacy of the Void, doom drops have been buffed with the Nydus Worm, so we wonder if Overlords can be served for the small drops.

  • New Upgrade to Reduced Medivac Unload Delay

    We were exploring various upgrade replacements for the Medivac, and tried upgrades ranging from providing straight-up power in combat to various utility upgrade ideas that change up their gameplay. We decided to try reducing the unload delay because we feel that Medivacs don’t need to be buffed in strength in main engagements, but we wanted them loading and unloading in various locations throughout combat or during harassment.

  • Disruptor Damage Increased from 145 to 145 +55 Shields

    Disruptors aren’t very effective in the PvP mirror matchup, so we wanted a targeted change that only affects that matchup.

  • Ravager No Longer Has the Armored Flag

    Ravager is looking too fragile now, so we wanted to buff its survivability.

  • Viper Parasitic Bomb Ability Cost Increased from 100 to 125

    In larger fights against many air units, the micro we wanted to see wasn’t happening if too many Parasitic Bombs were used at once. So we wanted to reduce the number of Parasitic Bombs being used per combat situation so that we can see the micro and counter-micro a lot more in engagements involving this ability.

  • Armory Ship Upgrade Costs Reduced to Match Vehicle Upgrade Costs

    With the upgrades being split out again, we felt the choice of committing into the specific tech routes is cool, but we wanted to make each path similar in terms of investment needed.

  • Spore Crawler Damage Decreased from 15 +30 Bio to 15 +15 Bio

    While the Lurker add is working well in ZvZ in terms of transitioning out of Roaches, we’re seeing that fights are generally trending to be ground-based only. We’d like to have the option to go Mutalisks in some ZvZ games, so we’re reducing the +bio damage of Spore Crawlers. We’re looking for Spore Crawlers to still counter Mutalisks well, but at the same time, we don’t want Mutalisks to almost never be used in the matchup. We think this is a good starting point to get the damage value of Spore Crawlers to the right place, but we can continue tuning it as needed throughout the beta.

  • Worker Counter Change Displays 2 Per Mineral Patch Instead of 3 Per Patch

    While 3 workers per mineral patch is the max efficiency, 2 per is optimal in multiplayer games of SC2, so we decided to try out this change in the beta.

  • Liberator AG Search Radius Indicator Is a Dotted Circle Similar to Siege Tank in Siege Mode, but the Ability’s Startup Still Displays the Animation

    This change is due to performance issues caused by potentially having so many splats in a given spot.




Please keep in mind that these changes aren’t final. We’d love to hear your thoughts and feedback on all of the topics we’ve discussed. Thank you so much for all of your assistance as we work to make Legacy of the Void the best StarCraft II expansion possible.


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The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-12 18:48:07
June 12 2015 18:02 GMT
#2
So many changes :O


Poll: Archon Mode Changes?

Approve (233)
 
83%

Neutral/Don't Care (45)
 
16%

Disapprove (3)
 
1%

281 total votes

Your vote: Archon Mode Changes?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care



Poll: Minimap Changes?

Approve (250)
 
92%

Neutral/Don't Care (15)
 
6%

Disapprove (7)
 
3%

272 total votes

Your vote: Minimap Changes?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care



Poll: Ghost Ability Addition?

Disapprove (200)
 
50%

Approve (141)
 
35%

Neutral/Don't Care (62)
 
15%

403 total votes

Your vote: Ghost Ability Addition?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care



Poll: Ghost Movement Speed Change?

Approve (268)
 
75%

Disapprove (64)
 
18%

Neutral/Don't Care (26)
 
7%

358 total votes

Your vote: Ghost Movement Speed Change?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care



Poll: Overlord Transport Change?

Approve (211)
 
68%

Neutral/Don't Care (62)
 
20%

Disapprove (38)
 
12%

311 total votes

Your vote: Overlord Transport Change?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care



Poll: Medivac Unload Delay Change?

Disapprove (292)
 
67%

Approve (114)
 
26%

Neutral/Don't Care (32)
 
7%

438 total votes

Your vote: Medivac Unload Delay Change?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care



Poll: Disruptor Change?

Approve (139)
 
57%

Neutral/Don't Care (66)
 
27%

Disapprove (41)
 
17%

246 total votes

Your vote: Disruptor Change?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care



Poll: Ravager 'Armored' Removal?

Approve (185)
 
65%

Neutral/Don't Care (57)
 
20%

Disapprove (44)
 
15%

286 total votes

Your vote: Ravager 'Armored' Removal?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care



Poll: Parasitic Bomb Change?

Approve (211)
 
77%

Disapprove (36)
 
13%

Neutral/Don't Care (28)
 
10%

275 total votes

Your vote: Parasitic Bomb Change?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care



Poll: Armory Ship Upgrade Cost Change?

Approve (204)
 
78%

Neutral/Don't Care (35)
 
13%

Disapprove (21)
 
8%

260 total votes

Your vote: Armory Ship Upgrade Cost Change?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care



Poll: Spore Crawler Damage Change?

Approve (199)
 
73%

Neutral/Don't Care (40)
 
15%

Disapprove (32)
 
12%

271 total votes

Your vote: Spore Crawler Damage Change?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care



Poll: Worker Counter Change?

Neutral/Don't Care (152)
 
57%

Approve (93)
 
35%

Disapprove (22)
 
8%

267 total votes

Your vote: Worker Counter Change?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care



Poll: Liberator Change?

Approve (128)
 
62%

Neutral/Don't Care (68)
 
33%

Disapprove (9)
 
4%

205 total votes

Your vote: Liberator Change?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care




Poll: How do you feel about the overall direction of the changes?

Approve (233)
 
73%

Disapprove (66)
 
21%

Neutral/Don't Care (19)
 
6%

318 total votes

Your vote: How do you feel about the overall direction of the changes?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral/Don't Care

Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
RoomOfMush
Profile Joined March 2015
1296 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-12 18:10:54
June 12 2015 18:09 GMT
#3
Some of these look good, but they are not quite what I was hoping for. I like the Ghost changes, will definitely make them more useful. Also like the medivac upgrade, its not the most creative but its solid. Cant say much about the rest without having the beta.

Not sure about the Parasitic Bomb change, to me it doesnt sound like it will improve the situation. After all, Vipers can replenish their energy quickly.
Hier
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
2391 Posts
June 12 2015 18:09 GMT
#4
The overlord change is interesting. Wonder what the cost would be.

The ghost, however, seems to be a square being shoved through a round hole.
"But on a more serious note..." -everyone on this forum at some point.
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
June 12 2015 18:09 GMT
#5
I really look forward to what qxc's thoughts are, assuming that he does another blog.
Thanks for posting!
kiss kiss fall in love
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-12 18:18:55
June 12 2015 18:14 GMT
#6
I like them all exept medivac unload speed. It will lead to ugly situations if medivacs have no downside. I can't imagine how that's not overpowered/abusable as hell.
Neosteel Enthusiast
B-royal
Profile Joined May 2015
Belgium1330 Posts
June 12 2015 18:18 GMT
#7
I thought people were complaining about ZvZ still being dominated by mutalisks? The 10 games or so that I've watched (primarily Dimaga and Vibe) have all been muta play.
new BW-player (~E rank fish) twitch.tv/crispydrone || What plays 500 games a season but can't get better? => http://imgur.com/a/pLzf9 <= ||
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-12 18:20:42
June 12 2015 18:19 GMT
#8
IMO the Ghost spell is an elegant solution to the current bio problem. I really like it. Depending on how the drone works, of course. If it just hovers over an Ultra and dies immediately to anything hitting it they may need to make it so the Ghost itself can just paint the target.
Wat
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3300 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-12 18:30:25
June 12 2015 18:22 GMT
#9
I hope they do not consider those changes as the big changes.

There has been no mention of what the long term plan for these changes are, and all we really get are balance updates. While they are important in the long run, they are not what the most important part of an expansion should be about. Just because there is a long list of changes does not make them big.

This makes me feel like they are just doing these changes to trick the majority of players who see a longer than average LotV update and associate it with big, important changes and then are satisfied.
T P Z sagi
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2647 Posts
June 12 2015 18:22 GMT
#10
Seems like they're still taking a few stuff from SBow, the ghost ability sounds a lot like the one from there.

Unload speed, pls god no, as a terran doom drops in TvT are already too idiotic, this would make it even more.

Still not buying the Split upgrade change, but if they are going that way reducing the cost of armories to 100/50 (BW cost) is pretty necessary (that may make hellbat pushes strong but they can always balance that)

Not sure about other changes

Also, I still hate the liberator
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10673 Posts
June 12 2015 18:24 GMT
#11
Some of these things are baffling, I am confused as to what Blizzard is thinking anymore...Just add Ladder and let LOTV run its course!
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
June 12 2015 18:27 GMT
#12
Heh, the ghost ability soudns underpowered just by thinking about it.
Single target, you can destroy the drone, that seems very weak for only -3 armor.

I would much rather have it be -2 but with either a duration and indestructible drone, or somewhat aoe.

This is theory tho, I want to see it in gameplay.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15967 Posts
June 12 2015 18:27 GMT
#13
while I'm all for making ghosts more useful this new ability just looks like an anti ultralisk spell.
I thought they wanted to get rid of those hardcounters.
Seems like it will be similar to current tvp: have enough ghosts -> you can take the fight; don't have the correct number of ghosts -> you'll lose 100%.
(in tvp I'm referring to vikings, not ghosts)
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
June 12 2015 18:28 GMT
#14
That Archon Mode change is smart I like how that might work out. Doesn't Alt + number do something similar in BroodWar only for your own units? I totally forgot how it works
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
June 12 2015 18:30 GMT
#15
the medivac keeps being the most broken T unit lol
Zest fanboy.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9390 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-12 18:40:52
June 12 2015 18:30 GMT
#16
Ghost ability sounds really boring. They want us to spam a single target ability on enemy units in order to reduce their armor?

That's exactly what Sc2 shouldn't be! Random spamming where the effect easily could be replicated by just not giving the Ultralisk super high armor in the first place. Abilities shouldn't take up too much APM, but should reward movement of units (like Psy Storm). This is the exact opposite!

Also just give the Ghost stim instead of movement speed increase. This will make it a ton easier to use along with bio as you won't need an extra control group.

The Parasitic change also feels slightly too much of a bandaid fix to me. Yes its an improvement, but I much rather see it not stack in the first so zerg players also must be more careful on targetting the right units. (it could then receive a slight AOE radius buff as compensation).

Overall, I see very little reason to play LOTV.
CrazyBread92
Profile Joined March 2013
United States53 Posts
June 12 2015 18:31 GMT
#17
Can anyone explain the worker counter change?
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
June 12 2015 18:32 GMT
#18
On June 13 2015 03:31 CrazyBread92 wrote:
Can anyone explain the worker counter change?


The display thingy above bases they added in hots says x/16 instead of x/24 now
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
June 12 2015 18:32 GMT
#19
I think the Ghost ability is primarily focused towards the Ultralisk problem. Most units scale with upgrades in a linear fashion to bio units scale in damage but the Ultra then gets the plating upgrade which makes it so marines simply tickle it. I wouldn't expect someone to spam it on a bunch of zealots or anything.
Wat
Boucot
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
France15997 Posts
June 12 2015 18:33 GMT
#20
The ghost ability will only be useful against ultras, right ?
Former SC2 writer for Millenium - twitter.com/Boucot
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