It's easy to get overzealous when reading about a unit with stats like that, but you need to consider it doesn't have smart fire, which means it's trash against masses of units, just like tempest. With high damage like that, every 3 shots are overkill and it's possible that 10 of these always shoot at one target at once.

You also need to siege it, mark a specific location (can't chase units around the base or map) and upgrade it.

JCoto

Spain574 Posts

May 25 2015 20:44 GMT

#465

On May 26 2015 05:35 _indigo_ wrote:
It's easy to get overzealous when reading about a unit with stats like that, but you need to consider it doesn't have smart fire, which means it's trash against masses of units, just like tempest. With high damage like that, every 3 shots are overkill and it's possible that 10 of these always shoot at one target at once.

You also need to siege it, mark a specific location (can't chase units around the base or map) and upgrade it.

Tempest:

300/200/4, Fleet beacon tech.

30 damage per voley+14 vsmassive.
2.35 CD real time (LOTV)

Liberator

150/150/2

85+15vs light damage per volley
1.14 CD

Liberator is at least 6 times stronger than a tempest and very accessible in tech, and much more masseable since it's 2 supply. I exchange Tempest for liberator any day you want my fella.

We are always complaining that battles are too fast, "terrible terrible damage", "crazy DPS", "hardcountering" and we are just about to add a unit with the highest DPS in the game with 15 range. Also, with that attack CD, the overkill is going to be much less noticeable than Tempest's.

Put Liberators to harass a mineral line, they kill workers as fast as Oracles but from 15 range.

nesmah

France26 Posts

May 25 2015 20:49 GMT

#466

Put Liberators to harass a mineral line, they kill workers as fast as Oracles but from 15 range.

You will finally get the feeling when a terran lose his mineral line from an oracle.

Enjoy

chipmonklord17

United States11944 Posts

May 25 2015 20:50 GMT

#467

In their "siege mode" they remind me of that thing in avengers 2 that shoots down Iron Man's Hulk Buster armor

weikor

Austria580 Posts

May 25 2015 20:51 GMT

#468

Actually looks pretty cool, not sure how much we needed an Air siege tank, but hey.

I wish protoss had gotten something like this instead of the disruptor, feels like a little more stable unit to control space.

_indigo_

Slovenia171 Posts

May 25 2015 20:53 GMT

#469

"Harass the mineral line" - when, buddy? At 20 minutes? You realize you need a techlabed starport with 200/200 upgrade and then fly the thing there and siege it?

Who builds techlab starports vs Protoss and survives without medivacs anyway? Maybe meta will change a lot but there Liberator is much more scary for other purposes then to harass mineral lines lol. Also, it's funny because you can just like, you know, walk out of the circle where they shoot.

weikor

Austria580 Posts

May 25 2015 20:57 GMT

#470

I actually think its fine that it does high damage. Its more of a Space control unit, imho its a fairly small circle that seems pretty easy to move out of.

Fits well with the Mech theme, and should let you set up nice sieged positions.
This might be the best unit to synergise with tanks too, tanks will protect them from ground like hydra or stalker (which these will be weak against), while the Liberator protects the tanks from air, and has a secondary use to protect flanks.

Just look at the video again, and ask yourself how much a good player would really have lost there.

redviper

Pakistan2333 Posts

May 25 2015 20:59 GMT

#471

That video was strange. Was it me or were all of the liberators shooting at any units in the red circle of any liberator. It seemed buggy to me more than OP.

edit: It seems the video maker also noticed it. Doesn't seem like it should be shooting into any of the red circles, should only be shooting into its own red circle only. If that happens it doesn't seem that insane of a unit (particularly if both sides can see the red circle).

JCoto

Spain574 Posts

May 25 2015 21:09 GMT

#472

On May 26 2015 05:53 _indigo_ wrote:
"Harass the mineral line" - when, buddy? At 20 minutes? You realize you need a techlabed starport with 200/200 upgrade and then fly the thing there and siege it?

Who builds techlab starports vs Protoss and survives without medivacs anyway? Maybe meta will change a lot but there Liberator is much more scary for other purposes then to harass mineral lines lol. Also, it's funny because you can just like, you know, walk out of the circle where they shoot.

It's not the harass, but the hyper damage efficiency of it, cheap cost, and Zoning potential.

Calculate more or less 30 seconds later than a Banshee opener. Even 1 minute after it.

Standard Cloak Banshee opener:

1/1/1 opener with tech lab

150/100 + 100/100 (Cloak upgrade) = 250/200

extra banshee 150/100 = 400/300

Liberator + Siege:

1/1/1 opener with tech lab

150/150 + 200/200 (siege upgrade)= 350/350

Scrap the second banshee and go, Liberator has the DPS of 3 banshes and counters mutas.

The circle has the size of almost a mineral line, so it's 1 unit without counterplay denying mining completely.
Maybe it is not that strong in TvP, but in TvT and TvZ is going to be hard to swallow.

And even with increased costs, it's going to be a very strong followup of Banshee/Hellion/Reaper pressure, since the most obvious and strong response from Zerg, Mutalisks, are countered by Liberators. And if the Zerg brings Corruptors in, you just kill them on ground.

We are always complaining that "1 mistake, GG" and "too fast DPS" and bring in a 15 range oracle?

nesmah

France26 Posts

May 25 2015 21:17 GMT

#473

You forgot the armory requirement for the upgrade. that change all the thing.

Grumbels

Netherlands7031 Posts

May 25 2015 21:17 GMT

#474

The liberator is based on the valkyrie, but the thor is already based on the valkyrie. Keeping to Blizzard tradition, the anti-air units are given an ability to have limited use against ground, but the liberator's instance of this mechanic is rather similar to the siege tank.

In my opinion this is just ridiculous. We have units like the colossus, tempest, swarm host, mothership and thor in the game that Blizzard has effectively replaced and which have no meaningful role anymore. They just serve to take up space. The same is true to a lesser extent for some other units. The point of expansions is ~~to make Blizzard money~~ to improve the game, not simply to add more clutter in order to sell the expansion by highlighting new stuff.

JCoto

Spain574 Posts

May 25 2015 21:19 GMT

#475

On May 26 2015 06:17 nesmah wrote:
You forgot the armory requirement for the upgrade. that change all the thing.

Maybe as an opener it would not work, but as a Banshee followup, it will work for sure.

That doesn't change the fact that has the strongest DPS in all the game at 15 range.

nesmah

France26 Posts

May 25 2015 21:24 GMT

#476

On May 26 2015 06:19 JCoto wrote:

Show nested quote +

Maybe as an opener it would not work, but as a Banshee followup, it will work for sure.

That doesn't change the fact that has the strongest DPS in all the game at 15 range.

And ?

All is about timing in this game. If the unit is ready when blink stalker are ready (for exemple) i don't see the point at being the strongest unit in the game.

JCoto

Spain574 Posts

May 25 2015 21:34 GMT

#477

On May 26 2015 06:24 nesmah wrote:

Show nested quote +

And ?

All is about timing in this game. If the unit is ready when blink stalker are ready (for exemple) i don't see the point at being the strongest unit in the game.

That is not completely true.

Past a certain mark of time, timings are much weaker and units shine by themselves when massed enough and well positioned and microed, that's the complete point of Mech in TvZ. Having 75 DPS per 2 supply is going to be quite noticeable when you have 10 of that units. 750 DPS is the same DPS than 50 Tempests.

Spect8rCraft

649 Posts

May 25 2015 21:40 GMT

#478

From that video alone, I'm just hoping that the unit will function properly before we even consider balance implications.

Cyro

United Kingdom20319 Posts

May 25 2015 22:19 GMT

#479

On May 26 2015 05:49 nesmah wrote:

Show nested quote +

You will finally get the feeling when a terran lose his mineral line from an oracle.

Enjoy

Every race falls victim to the 1-worker-per-second loss of oracles.

rpgalon

Brazil1069 Posts

May 25 2015 22:37 GMT

#480

the liberator should be the Terran tempest, cost and supply wise.

the way it works... I don't see blizzard wanting it to be massable, their reasoning will probably be something like... "liberators in siege mode takes too much space on screen with their targeted area effect"