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Russian Federation1612 Posts
On May 26 2015 18:32 sAsImre wrote:
I wish they would do what they said during the hots beta: delete units. Honnestly we could get rid of the thor/tempest/sh and nobody would be sad with the liberator actually in play now...
Also Colossus, Sentry, Roach, Marauder, Raven, BC, Carriers, Mothership, Oracle, Cyclone... i missed something but nevermind.
The only thing i know that everybody loves Siege Tanks!!!
But other units are so hated by many various people. So what?
My advice: love it of don't play it. There will be no drastic changes unit SC3.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
On May 26 2015 18:57 Hider wrote:
Just gonna put it out there: I think the unit looks fun, has counterplay and its kinda a new concept. It does kinda overlap a bit with other units.
Just gonna put it out there: I think the unit is fun because it's good both vs Ground and Air. Remember Brood War combination of Guardian and Devourer? Now it's like you need just one unit 
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On May 26 2015 09:05 Lexender wrote:
This unit... sucks
What the fuck is blizzard thinking, I thought it was going to be OK but the design is fucking awful, just transform and wait for it to kill, siege unit should reward control like in the WoL TvZ where a terran that focused banelings got rewarded for it, this units has 0 micro what so ever, just transform back and forth, once the unit steps out (or doesn't steps in at all) it becomes useless, the damage doesn't really mathers the ground attack is designed awfully.
And the unit itself its not much better, a valkyrie had a lot of maneuverability, this unit can only be 1A into battle. Did they learn't nothing from the viking? Whats with blizzard making air units unresponsive as fuck?
Yeah, the control of air units is shit. I think that tonight I'm going to make micro mod for air units since I've been messing a while with it for an official topic, to see how improvable micro is with the SC2 engine. Move-shot mechanics are awful due to how weapons and movement are coded for air units in SC2, so it's tought to reach to a full maneuverability.
Anyone willing to try so we could make an official topic on air micro? ^^
I think it is worth.
All air units are going to suffer a ton since how "slowing" on weapons interacts with deceleration values is a mistery, and what's more, few air units have deceleration values.
Air units have a very small dedication on their movement.
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Something you may notice is that, while the Liberator's AG weapon has 15 range, the Siege ability's range (to place the targeting circle) is much, much lower (around 7, I'd guess). It does appear that Liberators can fire shots into another Liberator's Siege circle, though, as long the other circle is within the AG weapon's 15 range.
Interesting tidbit from the Reddit thread. I don't know if the spotter ability is a bug though, would be cool if it were intentional though.
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On May 26 2015 19:47 JCoto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2015 09:05 Lexender wrote:
This unit... sucks
What the fuck is blizzard thinking, I thought it was going to be OK but the design is fucking awful, just transform and wait for it to kill, siege unit should reward control like in the WoL TvZ where a terran that focused banelings got rewarded for it, this units has 0 micro what so ever, just transform back and forth, once the unit steps out (or doesn't steps in at all) it becomes useless, the damage doesn't really mathers the ground attack is designed awfully.
And the unit itself its not much better, a valkyrie had a lot of maneuverability, this unit can only be 1A into battle. Did they learn't nothing from the viking? Whats with blizzard making air units unresponsive as fuck? Yeah, the control of air units is shit. I think that tonight I'm going to make micro mod for air units since I've been messing a while with it for an official topic, to see how improvable micro is with the SC2 engine. Move-shot mechanics are awful due to how weapons and movement are coded for air units in SC2, so it's tought to reach to a full maneuverability. Anyone willing to try so we could make an official topic on air micro? ^^ I think it is worth.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/433944-depth-of-micro
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
Does anybody understand that that video and those stats of Liberator are just internal testing lol?
This unit will be twice weaker in the patch.
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On May 26 2015 20:41 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2015 19:47 JCoto wrote:On May 26 2015 09:05 Lexender wrote:
This unit... sucks
What the fuck is blizzard thinking, I thought it was going to be OK but the design is fucking awful, just transform and wait for it to kill, siege unit should reward control like in the WoL TvZ where a terran that focused banelings got rewarded for it, this units has 0 micro what so ever, just transform back and forth, once the unit steps out (or doesn't steps in at all) it becomes useless, the damage doesn't really mathers the ground attack is designed awfully.
And the unit itself its not much better, a valkyrie had a lot of maneuverability, this unit can only be 1A into battle. Did they learn't nothing from the viking? Whats with blizzard making air units unresponsive as fuck? Yeah, the control of air units is shit. I think that tonight I'm going to make micro mod for air units since I've been messing a while with it for an official topic, to see how improvable micro is with the SC2 engine. Move-shot mechanics are awful due to how weapons and movement are coded for air units in SC2, so it's tought to reach to a full maneuverability. Anyone willing to try so we could make an official topic on air micro? ^^ I think it is worth. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/433944-depth-of-micro
I know that topic and the tester quite well, but thanks anyway
The problem is that the unit tester only touches some units and feels like a "test" on some.
What I'm talking about is creating an extension mod, and feature it on Blizz forums. Some units could benefit of some increased micro potential instead of heavy damage (VoidRays, BC's) and other ones could be just improved to feel very responsive (Vikings, Banshees, Corruptors).
I think Blizz made 2 fails regarding air units, which is how the movement values are set, and how the autospread is coded. Many air units lack of acceleration and the codification of deceleration and moving-shot is just bad.
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On May 26 2015 20:46 Jenia6109 wrote:
Does anybody understand that that video and those stats of Liberator are just internal testing lol?
This unit will be twice weaker in the patch.
Some players say here that the unit is going to be weak antiground and is what terran needed.
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On May 25 2015 19:26 SoSexy wrote:
Lol guys how is this possible? 6 out of 7 changes are considered good but the overall direction is not?
Read the whole thread, it's addressed multiple times.
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On May 26 2015 11:13 crown77 wrote:
The first thing they need to figure out is what economy they're interested in. Before you can balance an rts game you need to have the economy figured out, its the base of the pyramid. The double harvest DHX should have been the first thing they changed in this patch but they didn't even touch on the economy..... why are they making such specific changes to units and upgrades without all the units and upgrades even being in the game? and what is blizzard's obsession with having hard counters to muta for terran but nothing to deal with voidray or phoenix early on.... it's so odd how blizzard feels obligated to have mech be hard countered by air..... and rather than having an upgrade that lets the cyclone shoot up....... why not have the special ability it's self be researched.... so it doesn't destroy ground at the 2 minute mark.... but die to a mothership at the 6 minute mark. I would really love it if Blizzard would start inviting pros like day9, bunny, nony, catz, etc. to blizzard and stream them playing hundreds of games and talking about what they like and dont like... wouldn't that be a fun way for them to make money and improve the game... they could sponsor it and make it into something that people would watch and give feedback on...
I second this.
Open communication with the community is a great policy they took a step toward, but I fear now have stepped back from.
Continuing on with the, "Mother knows best," attitude that seems more prevalent as of late.
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On May 26 2015 21:33 ShambhalaWar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2015 11:13 crown77 wrote:
The first thing they need to figure out is what economy they're interested in. Before you can balance an rts game you need to have the economy figured out, its the base of the pyramid. The double harvest DHX should have been the first thing they changed in this patch but they didn't even touch on the economy..... why are they making such specific changes to units and upgrades without all the units and upgrades even being in the game? and what is blizzard's obsession with having hard counters to muta for terran but nothing to deal with voidray or phoenix early on.... it's so odd how blizzard feels obligated to have mech be hard countered by air..... and rather than having an upgrade that lets the cyclone shoot up....... why not have the special ability it's self be researched.... so it doesn't destroy ground at the 2 minute mark.... but die to a mothership at the 6 minute mark. I would really love it if Blizzard would start inviting pros like day9, bunny, nony, catz, etc. to blizzard and stream them playing hundreds of games and talking about what they like and dont like... wouldn't that be a fun way for them to make money and improve the game... they could sponsor it and make it into something that people would watch and give feedback on... I second this. Open communication with the community is a great policy they took a step toward, but I fear now have stepped back from.
All they were doing was just going from no communication at all to "thanks for all the input guys, but we will be doing something completely different lol". Hardly a step forward if you ask me.
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Another micro intensive unit(sighs). Why is that Protoss units are basically just A-move, while Terran units all must be controlled manually? I'd rather have a tempest than this Liberator thing that only can attack certain area and have to be manually sieged and can't even attack buildings omg?
I'd rather have a ground attack that does only 1/4 the damege it does now that doesn't take an upgrade, can attack buildings, and doesn't need to be sieged up to attack.(basically a Tempest with anti-Muta AtA)
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Another micro intensive unit(sighs). Why is that Protoss units are basically just A-move, while Terran units all must be controlled manually?
lol
protoss is notorious for having to babysit many of their units with activation abilities while terran core army in the first 5 years of the game was more about how well you could box, left click, right click and a-click.
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On May 26 2015 22:25 HallofPain4444 wrote:
Another micro intensive unit(sighs). Why is that Protoss units are basically just A-move, while Terran units all must be controlled manually? I'd rather have a tempest than this Liberator thing that only can attack certain area and have to be manually sieged and can't even attack buildings omg?
I'd rather have a ground attack that does only 1/4 the damege it does now that doesn't take an upgrade, can attack buildings, and doesn't need to be sieged up to attack.(basically a Tempest with anti-Muta AtA)
Tempest is an utterly useless and trash unit and there's not a single Protoss player that wouldn't change it to something better or atleast usable. The fact you'd rather take a trash that nobody even builds, than a new anti-muta unit that has the potential to destroy bunched up deathballs or static formations is wonderful to hear, and really speaks volumes about the insight being offered here.
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On May 26 2015 22:25 HallofPain4444 wrote:
Another micro intensive unit(sighs). Why is that Protoss units are basically just A-move, while Terran units all must be controlled manually?
DKs son plays toss, and apparently he isn't very talented. You do the math from here.
+ Show Spoiler + yes, I'm just making stuff up for the lulz.
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nah I'd rather have a 15 range poking unit with low DPS that can force the other guy to engage. The siege tank already is good enough. I don't think we need another siege unit, especially one that's very hard to maneuver.
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On May 26 2015 22:51 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2015 22:25 HallofPain4444 wrote:
Another micro intensive unit(sighs). Why is that Protoss units are basically just A-move, while Terran units all must be controlled manually? DKs son plays toss, and apparently he isn't very talented. You do the math from here. + Show Spoiler + yes, I'm just making stuff up for the lulz.
Ehhh not, DK was known for playing Terran and making Protoss dumb, eliminating strengths and having hardcoutners, while giving terran 200 mechanisms to be creative and efficient.
Protoss is in a bad state and based in hardcountering always because of him. Bowder already contributed just before WoL beta on "simplyfing protoss macro" leading to the WG dependency that generates so many problems.
However, I wouldn't say that Toss is pure A-move. It's not like other races can't have their time A-moving at all, doesn't mind if you press T before. Bio-Pushes in TvP, Hellbat timings in TvZ, Roach busts, RoachHydraCorruptor, Ling-all ins are A-move too. Protoss is very inneficient when split, and that is a problem for the units. And it is not like MMM has a very complicated micro.
As a Protoss I hate most of the changes that have happened to Protoss over the years. Units have been simplified and resimplified while being slow and hardly microable, and what's most important, inneficient per se, leading to A-Move Deathballs that will lead to GGs from your part or the enemy's.
Stalkers, Phoenixes, Oracles, and HT control are micro-intensive, but that's all. The rest is either poor mobility, poor range or both, generally with big bang damage. At least Disruptors in LotV are more microable than Colossi, fun and anti-deathball.
I think the change should start from changing Sentries. Forcefields are not that bad to have, but shouldn't be abusable as they are, leading to GG pushes where you either have enough units and firepower to defend when split because you are going to be split anyways, or you die. In exchange, aggro units can be buffed.
Immos and VoidRays need strong revamps too.
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Actually you guys know what, a tempest would have perfect synergy with a Mech terran army. Make like 3-4 tempests, scan and poke, if they chase you retreat to your siege line, repeat and watch the other guy goes nuts.
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Ehhh not, DK was known for playing Terran and making Protoss dumb, eliminating strengths and having hardcoutners, while giving terran 200 mechanisms to be creative and efficient.
Why are you making this stuff up? DK always played random on the ladder.
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On May 26 2015 23:15 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +Ehhh not, DK was known for playing Terran and making Protoss dumb, eliminating strengths and having hardcoutners, while giving terran 200 mechanisms to be creative and efficient. Why are you making this stuff up? DK always played random on the ladder.
I was waiting for Cascade to rebate what he said by doing the same thing, but you broke the game 
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EPT
