EPTLotV Balance Update Preview - May 21 - Page 27
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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ETisME
12387 Posts
On May 27 2015 00:15 ZenithM wrote: Oh come on guys, Adept and Disruptor are pretty micro intensive. yes, everyone who is playing the beta should agree so. I also think the new oracle is very multi tasking heavy, I wish they can torn down the worker damage a little because right now their utility is so very good (stasis ward has so many functions, it's crazy good) | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On May 27 2015 00:15 ZenithM wrote: Oh come on guys, Adept and Disruptor are pretty micro intensive. Yeah, Disruptor micro concept and Disruptor/Warp prism is good. But Adepts are quite limited. They move slow, have an standard move-shot micro daamge poitn (bad for a 4 range infantry, should be like marines) and based on hardcountering damage. The shade gives good mindgames, but the micro is quite discussable when you move up to high amounts of Adepts, since there is low benefit of splitting them. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On May 27 2015 00:15 ZenithM wrote: Oh come on guys, Adept and Disruptor are pretty micro intensive. The Disruptor is micro intensive in the wrong way, just like the Viper. If you're using the Viper to counter Colossus either the Protoss picks off or Feedbacks the Viper and wins or the Abduct lands and the Protoss losses the Colossus and Zerg wins. There is very little room for counterplay. And all of the battle is condensed into a few single actions. And those few actions are way too meaningful because they dictate so much of the game. There is a similar interaction between Ghosts and High Templar, but there is much more counterplay as they Ghosts can snipe and EMP, while Templars can Feedback, become Archons if they run out of mana or hide in Warp Prisms. Also Storm doesn't do instant damage, it does damage over time so units can move away from it (again more micro counterplay). EMP is instant damage, but it is limited. Landing an Abduct is basically instant death for the target if used properly. There is no counterplay after a unit is Abducted (there could be if Abduct wasn't instant, and pulled a target in slower). And that is the problem with the Disruptor. The Disruptor is really expensive and either it lands on a bunch of units, or it doesn't. You might argue that like Storm it has greatly varying degrees of damage that it can do depending on the number of units it hits, and in that way it is better than Abduct. But it is a really expensive unit and Protoss is depending on it to do huge damage in a very short amount of time. Even Colossus give opponents more time to react/retreat ect because it's damage isn't done in one huge burst. So you can see that the Disruptor also has the potential to condense battles into a few actions. So while it is micro intensive, it reduces the amount of battle micro in general because it can end the battle so quickly, just like the Viper can. I'd like to draw a comparison to League of Legends. In bottom lane early, even if one side has Annie (a burst mage) battles are usually a lot longer with more action/reaction and counterplay than two assassins going at in mid lane. The reason is because the way the damage is distributed, bottom lane ADCs deal damage over time, while bursty assassins deal a massive amount of damage in a very small time. Starcraft should avoid burst damage in most situations. The best and most interesting engagements have back and forth micro over a period of time, and therefore are often in the early game. Seeing Gateway units battle MM or Ling/Roach early offers so many opportunities for exciting army control and micro. But late game, damage scales exponentially and units are obliterated so fast that you don't get those long interesting engagements you just get "oh look he landed two good storms, GG!" Banelings are an exception because the Baneling sacrifices itself, and they don't do overwhelming damage to everything (just light units) like Disruptors do. For those same reasons, the Widow Mine is bad. Siege Tanks are another exception because they can't move while in AOE burst mode, so you can choose not to attack into them, or attack them while they aren't in Siege mode, which is a great example of counterplay. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2627 Posts
On May 26 2015 20:46 Jenia6109 wrote: Does anybody understand that that video and those stats of Liberator are just internal testing lol? This unit will be twice weaker in the patch. Yeah fpr example 150/150/2 is the cost of the cyclone wich makes it the standart terran unit cost, so its quite obvious the stats are just kinda there, probably just place holders for now | ||
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HallofPain4444
Japan71 Posts
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
i think the liberator looks really silly and un-terrany since when do terrans shoot blue lasers? also, the general unit design is weak. and the AA attack looks really tiny, i was hoping for a valkyrie-style volley of missiles | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On May 27 2015 02:47 summerloud wrote: apart from balance, just concentrating on the visual design: i think the liberator looks really silly and un-terrany since when do terrans shoot blue lasers? also, the general unit design is weak. and the AA attack looks really tiny, i was hoping for a valkyrie-style volley of missiles I agree. It should shoot missiles to the ground or at least have a cannon fire at ground targets, and the AA missiles are underwhelming. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On May 26 2015 20:39 Athenau wrote: Interesting tidbit from the Reddit thread. I don't know if the spotter ability is a bug though, would be cool if it were intentional though. Ooh, that's a really cool mechanic. Do I dare hope that it's not a bug? Lol. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On May 27 2015 03:02 BronzeKnee wrote: I agree. It should shoot missiles to the ground or at least have a cannon fire at ground targets, and the AA missiles are underwhelming. Right now ground attack really looks like a projectile from Photon Overcharge, I would say that it is just a placeholder. AA missiles are underwhelming but they shouldn't really look a lot better than that because they do 2x7 damage which isn't exactly high. Maybe make an explosion a bit more flashy but that's all. | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
"That sounds like a good change, that sounds like a good change, that's an ok change. Horrible balance patch though." | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
On May 27 2015 08:48 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I like how most of the changes the majority of the people say "approve", with one "disapprove" and one "neutral", but the general changes have most people voting "disapprove". "That sounds like a good change, that sounds like a good change, that's an ok change. Horrible balance patch though." God, at least skim a few posts and try to find the reason why that might be the case. The individual changes are okay but the general direction of the patch is indeed horrible. As stated by countless of people, they were expecting major changes to economy and design of certain elements of the game (warp gates etc). | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 27 2015 09:46 B-royal wrote: God, at least skim a few posts and try to find the reason why that might be the case. The individual changes are okay but the general direction of the patch is indeed horrible. As stated by countless of people, they were expecting major changes to economy and design of certain elements of the game (warp gates etc). I see people complaining about individual changes. Even then, if the changes are okay, you wouldn't see overwhelming approval numbers like with the restoration of gas. This would be reflected in the votecount. The Liberator is a big change. The beta is long specifically so they can change one thing at a time, because even with the promised super changes, you can't get anything but novelty if you implement it all at once. People get used to the Liberator (which was promised, it's not like they're putting it all off for no good reason), and then once they see how the Liberator works they can tweak it with the rest of the new units and bring something else in (like changing warp gate mechanic). | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On May 27 2015 10:19 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I see people complaining about individual changes. Even then, if the changes are okay, you wouldn't see overwhelming approval numbers like with the restoration of gas. This would be reflected in the votecount. The Liberator is a big change. The beta is long specifically so they can change one thing at a time, because even with the promised super changes, you can't get anything but novelty if you implement it all at once. People get used to the Liberator (which was promised, it's not like they're putting it all off for no good reason), and then once they see how the Liberator works they can tweak it with the rest of the new units and bring something else in (like changing warp gate mechanic). The Liberator, being a Starport Tech Lab unit that requires an upgrade for its ground mode and is unlikely to be used with Bio compositions in general, can never ever hope to change the game as much as an adjusted Warp Gate mechanic would, or an adjustment to Protoss tier 1 that doesn't even touch Warp Gate. This just doesn't make sense. Protoss needs changes to be able to play a sprawled out macro game. The longer Blizzard holds off on introducing them, the higher the chance that they're going to come in the form of new MSC spells like "press F+U to teleport all your opponent's combat units to the farthest possible point on the map from here, and if that point is over impassable terrain then blow them the fuck up." | ||
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frostalgia
United States178 Posts
Many of the new units/abilities (and the less interesting economy) have potential, which is a good thing for still being early into the beta. We just have to hope for trying a lot more iterations of some things if the majority feels as though something isn't working after it's been given time to mess around with. A few things that come to mind from what I've messed around with in beta so far: 12 worker start is a little too much. 9 workers (and 200 minerals) would be just right. Battles aren't as spread out as 100/60 intended, as you move onto the next base quicker. 3 bases still gets similar income as HotS. Maybe consider trying 6 patches per base. Siege Tanks shouldn't be able to be dropped for a few seconds after being picked up. Cyclone could use +1 Lock On range, in exchange for slowly ramping up it's damage. Consider requiring either an Engineering Bay or an Armory to build Missile Turrets. Liberator AG mode would be much cooler if it were an upgrade on the Fusion Core. I'd like if Ravagers had +1 Attack Range but required an Evolution Chamber to make. Parasitic Bomb is deadly, giving Zerg late game Air superiority. Dial back it's damage. Lurkers might need 15 dmg (+5 Armored), then upgrade to 20 dmg (+10 Armored). Ventral Sacs could be 100/100, then Overlords can morph separately into Overtakers. Adept could use Bounce upgrade again instead of Shield, but on Cyber Core instead. Observer Speed upgrade might work better with various builds on Twilight Council. Disruptor needs a Robo Bay upgrade. Maybe make it cloaked while it's invulnerable? Tempest needs a Fleet Beacon upgrade. Maybe small amount of Air Splash damage? I'm interested in seeing how the Liberator will be used in both Bio and Mech builds. Keep up the testing, looking forward to more changes! | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On May 27 2015 15:48 frostalgia wrote: Disruptor needs a Robo Bay upgrade. Maybe make it cloaked while it's invulnerable? Dude. Guy. You want to turn Disruptors into AOE Dark Templar? Because regular old Dark Templar aren't evil enough? If that's not offensive on principle alone, consider simply that it removes all micro counterplay, and micro counterplay is (part of) the reason the Disruptor was created to replace the Colossus. The invincibility is pretty terrible already, a flat shield buff would be much more preferable. | ||
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