On May 12 2015 20:59 Tyrhanius wrote: Nobody is scaired by the description of the new terran unit ? A fast unit that deals AOE dmg, and after deals heavy dmg on the ground ? Why terrans always has the fastest units of the game, and when it's slow, medivac can carry it lol.
Of couse no idea of how it cost, how good is it, but i'm definetly a bit concerned about this annoncement.
Terran having the fastest units in the game? You and your Zerg avatar: did you ever research zergling speed. Because with Zergling speed, thes freaking things can outran CARS (Hellions). Mutas are so fast, that you cannot catch them even when stimmed. The only time Terran is fast is a couple of secs with medivac-boost. But lets hope there is nothing under the medivacs when boost is done or mutas don't follow the medivacs...
Roaches currently almost outrun Terran units WHEN BURROWED.
"Terran always having fastest units" gotta be kidding me.
Lol, i not really talking about the speed value, but the strategic mobility of Terran army.
Can Zerg be in Terran base ? Nearly never happen except big bust/all-in or a fail when Terran don't rise his depot. Medivac ? Just can go everywhere in zerg base. The only WALL Zerg have against drop is mutas, and any pre-mutas drop is just a paintfull attempt where zerg try with some slow queen/spores to get the fastest thing which fly, can go top/down, load/unload, and do free dmg without risk if well controled.
Make a hard counter to mutas, and you sure T can just be everywhere in zerg base, while zerglings/roach despite their high speed value, never surprised Terran, as they come by the walled door. Sure you have nyndus now, but you have 20s to prepare, while drop is nearly instant and can be the windrop, and you just boost vs static defence, like there is nothing.
Look at Hots at this moment : TvT : doom drop, outposition, TvP : drop/outposition, TvZ fortunatly with the mutas don't have this volatility, and is the most appreciated MU.
You'r trouble with mutas is far less concerning, compared to what Z/P and even T experiment vs drophip. So given a AOE units that could provide the Air suppremacy vs mutas/phoenix/vikings is really scairy considering the strengh of medivac which could bring tank/bio/hellbat anywhere on the map, and give banshee free way to hit.
Upgraded Zealot speed increased from 2.75 to 2.953
With the addition of the Adept, the Zealots role has been reduced in the later stages game. To adjust for this, we decided to make a mid/late game buff to Zealots that makes the Zealots be a more ideal choice in certain situations compared to the Adept. Alternatively, we could have toned down the effectiveness of the Adept, but overall we agree with the community opinion that Protoss isn’t as powerful as the other two races currently, so we felt this change was best.
Well by mid-late game Protoss usually has charge, so this change with their reasoning makes no sense. Charge is better for mid-late game than using this minor speed buff. Furthermore, this small speed buff makes no difference to someone who has good kiting.
Idea for you Blizz (free of charge this 1): Buff warpgate units and nerf warp-gate (both must happen together). I think you have heard from the community that we rather micro units (gateway units) , than rely on MSC or recall.
On face value, I do not value this change at all. Design-wise, it feels counterintuitive to buff the speed that zealots move after charge because 1) they have charge now, and 2) they are slowly becoming less and less effective as a main army unit and more useful for harassment by the time you research it (though this is admittedly not based on the LotV economy). It's a nonsensical change that buffs something that was already doing fine.
On the flip side, I think it can be seen as an extremely positive thing. First of all, higher movement speed means that they will stick better after charge against kiting comps, meaning that they WILL do more damage by getting in an extra few swipes per zealot. That's a big deal, and will make zealots substantially better at dealing with bio or roach/hydra/ravager on equal upgrades. Secondly, in the LotV economy (according to what I've seen and heard), the mid game continues on for quite a while with scrappy fights, so a buff to the zealot which would allow it more mobility and stickiness is actually quite good since zealots do very well in middlish numbers.
That said, it could go either way. I'm inclined to believe it's an unneeded buff which doesn't patch up core Protoss weaknesses (reminds me of the oracle changes in a way), but it could very well be a positive and dynamic change in LotV, especially with the changes to economy.
For your first point, if zealots are primarily for harassment (and defending harassment), then that's exactly what the movement speed would enhance. That's like what movement speed is all about.
For your second point, they will also be able to disengage from fights better if they have better movement speed. Being overall faster means a lot more than just some numbers in specific combat situations.
But then I'm a zerg player, so I understand that unit speed is a valuable asset. Apparently protoss players just want big clunky units that fight good.
I don't really get it since I don't play protoss. When does the Zealot get the speed boost? Is it after researching the Zealot leg? And isn't the normal zealot's speed 2.25?
On May 12 2015 22:41 bhfberserk wrote: I don't really get it since I don't play protoss. When does the Zealot get the speed boost? Is it after researching the Zealot leg? And isn't the normal zealot's speed 2.25?
Yup, the upgrade gives both the zealot charge and a (smallish) passive speed buff, which should be now not so small.
On May 12 2015 22:41 bhfberserk wrote: I don't really get it since I don't play protoss. When does the Zealot get the speed boost? Is it after researching the Zealot leg? And isn't the normal zealot's speed 2.25?
Yup, the upgrade gives both the zealot charge and a (smallish) passive speed buff, which should be now not so small.
Oh yea, I just checked! I honestly never realize there was a passive buff. But now 2.9 (same as zergling). Seems like an interesting buff and much more significant upgrade. Blizzard is slow, but they are addressing Gateway units. (Which is what the community wants.)
Upgraded Zealot speed increased from 2.75 to 2.953
With the addition of the Adept, the Zealots role has been reduced in the later stages game. To adjust for this, we decided to make a mid/late game buff to Zealots that makes the Zealots be a more ideal choice in certain situations compared to the Adept. Alternatively, we could have toned down the effectiveness of the Adept, but overall we agree with the community opinion that Protoss isn’t as powerful as the other two races currently, so we felt this change was best.
Well by mid-late game Protoss usually has charge, so this change with their reasoning makes no sense. Charge is better for mid-late game than using this minor speed buff. Furthermore, this small speed buff makes no difference to someone who has good kiting.
Idea for you Blizz (free of charge this 1): Buff warpgate units and nerf warp-gate (both must happen together). I think you have heard from the community that we rather micro units (gateway units) , than rely on MSC or recall.
On face value, I do not value this change at all. Design-wise, it feels counterintuitive to buff the speed that zealots move after charge because 1) they have charge now, and 2) they are slowly becoming less and less effective as a main army unit and more useful for harassment by the time you research it (though this is admittedly not based on the LotV economy). It's a nonsensical change that buffs something that was already doing fine.
On the flip side, I think it can be seen as an extremely positive thing. First of all, higher movement speed means that they will stick better after charge against kiting comps, meaning that they WILL do more damage by getting in an extra few swipes per zealot. That's a big deal, and will make zealots substantially better at dealing with bio or roach/hydra/ravager on equal upgrades. Secondly, in the LotV economy (according to what I've seen and heard), the mid game continues on for quite a while with scrappy fights, so a buff to the zealot which would allow it more mobility and stickiness is actually quite good since zealots do very well in middlish numbers.
That said, it could go either way. I'm inclined to believe it's an unneeded buff which doesn't patch up core Protoss weaknesses (reminds me of the oracle changes in a way), but it could very well be a positive and dynamic change in LotV, especially with the changes to economy.
For your first point, if zealots are primarily for harassment (and defending harassment), then that's exactly what the movement speed would enhance. That's like what movement speed is all about.
For your second point, they will also be able to disengage from fights better if they have better movement speed. Being overall faster means a lot more than just some numbers in specific combat situations.
But then I'm a zerg player, so I understand that unit speed is a valuable asset. Apparently protoss players just want big clunky units that fight good.
If zealots cant outrun stimmed bio and lings (which they cant with the buff) you can buff them all you want but you won't be able to retreat with them.
On May 13 2015 00:00 PVJ wrote: Can someone get Blizzard to swap BW & SC2 tanks as mentioned in the flash interview?
For that you need to put an end to the game of mass resources/production, weaken creep speed bonus/alter Zerg mobility so that Zerg ground armies can engage offcreep normally, kill hardcounters, tone down total maneuvarability somehow, bash Medivac boost, most likely restore overkill—all of that while convincing the angry mob that you're simply trying to improve SC2. Vast program!
recall? 50 thats like an insta turret in itself, just quickly bring them back, warp in EVEN MORE and go again a minute later . . dont worry ull probably have 2 nexi cannons ready at home as well if u really dont want to lose anything at all
as for the zealot, ye make em stronger, not game ending at all when they warp in 12 at a time . . now they just get their even faster and just as cheap
On May 12 2015 03:38 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: >Mass Recall cost reduced from 100 energy to 50 energy
Because why should a protoss player ever have to worry about good army positioning and movement? Let's just make it so they can have all their units anywhere they want at any time with no consequence! With recall and photon overcharge, there's no need to ever have defensive units at all and you can always move out without worry of being punished ever.
They say they want to discourage deathball play, then they make units like the mothership core encourage it in every way. I'm at a loss for words at how dumb this is.
Lol photon overcharge is irrelevant from mid game to late game. The fact that protoss army needs to be always complete composition to fight is already hard.. Terran and Z can just got drop or muta harass and leave and the protoss army isnt halfway there.
Crap! You're right!! If only Protoss had a flying unit that could drop units into other players bases as well!!
On May 12 2015 08:26 FT.aCt)Sony wrote: As a final update, we wanted to let you know more about the areas we’re testing internally.
We’re exploring ways to give more power to Terran bio play. We’re trying new ability ideas for the Raven’s PDD and Ghost’s Snipe. We’re developing the new Terran unit We’re getting comfortable with the air unit we’ve been exploring. Here’s how it currently operates: Two attack modes: Fast movement with spash-damage vs air Can enter a stationary-mode where it changes to attack vs ground. This attack targets an area where any units within that area receive high single-target damage.
Sure sounds like a Valkryie to me except it can land on the ground like a viking at the same time.
Should just add a Viking splash (Valkyrie) upgrade somewhere!
That's blasphemy, you're thinking like an intelligent individual that wants to see balance and Brood War'ish aspects, that is not what Blizzard wants
Upgraded Zealot speed increased from 2.75 to 2.953
With the addition of the Adept, the Zealots role has been reduced in the later stages game. To adjust for this, we decided to make a mid/late game buff to Zealots that makes the Zealots be a more ideal choice in certain situations compared to the Adept. Alternatively, we could have toned down the effectiveness of the Adept, but overall we agree with the community opinion that Protoss isn’t as powerful as the other two races currently, so we felt this change was best.
Well by mid-late game Protoss usually has charge, so this change with their reasoning makes no sense. Charge is better for mid-late game than using this minor speed buff. Furthermore, this small speed buff makes no difference to someone who has good kiting.
Idea for you Blizz (free of charge this 1): Buff warpgate units and nerf warp-gate (both must happen together). I think you have heard from the community that we rather micro units (gateway units) , than rely on MSC or recall.
On face value, I do not value this change at all. Design-wise, it feels counterintuitive to buff the speed that zealots move after charge because 1) they have charge now, and 2) they are slowly becoming less and less effective as a main army unit and more useful for harassment by the time you research it (though this is admittedly not based on the LotV economy). It's a nonsensical change that buffs something that was already doing fine.
On the flip side, I think it can be seen as an extremely positive thing. First of all, higher movement speed means that they will stick better after charge against kiting comps, meaning that they WILL do more damage by getting in an extra few swipes per zealot. That's a big deal, and will make zealots substantially better at dealing with bio or roach/hydra/ravager on equal upgrades. Secondly, in the LotV economy (according to what I've seen and heard), the mid game continues on for quite a while with scrappy fights, so a buff to the zealot which would allow it more mobility and stickiness is actually quite good since zealots do very well in middlish numbers.
That said, it could go either way. I'm inclined to believe it's an unneeded buff which doesn't patch up core Protoss weaknesses (reminds me of the oracle changes in a way), but it could very well be a positive and dynamic change in LotV, especially with the changes to economy.
For your first point, if zealots are primarily for harassment (and defending harassment), then that's exactly what the movement speed would enhance. That's like what movement speed is all about.
For your second point, they will also be able to disengage from fights better if they have better movement speed. Being overall faster means a lot more than just some numbers in specific combat situations.
But then I'm a zerg player, so I understand that unit speed is a valuable asset. Apparently protoss players just want big clunky units that fight good.
If zealots cant outrun stimmed bio and lings (which they cant with the buff) you can buff them all you want but you won't be able to retreat with them.
Everything isn't black or white, so even if they are still slower, they will have a somewhat easier time escaping.
More relevant, are you taking into account that faster movement speed is an indirect nerf to kitiing? Thus, Zealots will perform better during engagements.
The zealot buff is badly needed. With the introduction of lurkers, LOTV is going to be an even more hostile environment for zealots, which are already really weak in HOTS which added widow mines and hellbats. But those aren't even needed, because upgraded barracks and hatchery tech are enough to dominate upgraded protoss gateway tech. Hopefully, this will make zealots stronger against marauders (kiting with stim and slow) and roaches (with this buff, they are roughly the same speed after upgrades). Ideally zealot-based armies could be spammed in much the same way marine/marauder or roach/hydra can be.
I don't find the disruptor to be very appealing compared to reavers but at least it's better than the colossus. It does seem like it could be rendered useless by splitting, and disruptor drops look like they could be broken even worse than hellbat drops. Those issues aside, I feel like if psi storm was nudged up in damage to the point where it could reliably kill widow mines and hydralisks I'd be pretty happy with protoss.
This mothership buff makes no sense what so ever. Buffing zealot upgrade to improve the gateway units isn´t solving any early game difficulties. I don´t like the focus on the Mc, it´s such an important unit, that it´s hit or miss, nothing inbetween. The possibilty of teleporting up to 4 times is making it even more important and resulting in even less strategic decisions for the player. Plus: - no ladder ( great, so nobody is even playing) - no words on economy changes
Well at least they know how to praise the incredible and time consuming process of changing the timer after a bunch of years. :D "we’d like to inquire once more on the in-game clock changing to real time" ,
Upgraded Zealot speed increased from 2.75 to 2.953
With the addition of the Adept, the Zealots role has been reduced in the later stages game. To adjust for this, we decided to make a mid/late game buff to Zealots that makes the Zealots be a more ideal choice in certain situations compared to the Adept. Alternatively, we could have toned down the effectiveness of the Adept, but overall we agree with the community opinion that Protoss isn’t as powerful as the other two races currently, so we felt this change was best.
Well by mid-late game Protoss usually has charge, so this change with their reasoning makes no sense. Charge is better for mid-late game than using this minor speed buff. Furthermore, this small speed buff makes no difference to someone who has good kiting.
Idea for you Blizz (free of charge this 1): Buff warpgate units and nerf warp-gate (both must happen together). I think you have heard from the community that we rather micro units (gateway units) , than rely on MSC or recall.
On face value, I do not value this change at all. Design-wise, it feels counterintuitive to buff the speed that zealots move after charge because 1) they have charge now, and 2) they are slowly becoming less and less effective as a main army unit and more useful for harassment by the time you research it (though this is admittedly not based on the LotV economy). It's a nonsensical change that buffs something that was already doing fine.
On the flip side, I think it can be seen as an extremely positive thing. First of all, higher movement speed means that they will stick better after charge against kiting comps, meaning that they WILL do more damage by getting in an extra few swipes per zealot. That's a big deal, and will make zealots substantially better at dealing with bio or roach/hydra/ravager on equal upgrades. Secondly, in the LotV economy (according to what I've seen and heard), the mid game continues on for quite a while with scrappy fights, so a buff to the zealot which would allow it more mobility and stickiness is actually quite good since zealots do very well in middlish numbers.
That said, it could go either way. I'm inclined to believe it's an unneeded buff which doesn't patch up core Protoss weaknesses (reminds me of the oracle changes in a way), but it could very well be a positive and dynamic change in LotV, especially with the changes to economy.
For your first point, if zealots are primarily for harassment (and defending harassment), then that's exactly what the movement speed would enhance. That's like what movement speed is all about.
For your second point, they will also be able to disengage from fights better if they have better movement speed. Being overall faster means a lot more than just some numbers in specific combat situations.
But then I'm a zerg player, so I understand that unit speed is a valuable asset. Apparently protoss players just want big clunky units that fight good.
I'm a Zerg player kthxbye.
My "points" are basically thoughts on why I think the change may or may not be good, I was never trying to prove any points. Please read. The issue I have with buffing zealot move speed after charge is that (again, in HotS terms since I have no frame of reference in the LotV format) they are becoming a situational unit mostly for harassment; at that point, the zealots are either just warping in directly from a warp prism or moving across the map opposite to the main army. A small buff to movement speed does nothing to support that role.
On the other hand, if the game is stuck in the mid game with the LotV economy, a buff to move speed might be quite significant. I still think it's an incorrect fix (targeting the incorrect problem), but I'm not saying that it has no potential for helping Protoss.
On May 13 2015 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote: If they reinstated Khaydarin Amulet, Protoss wouldn't need to teleport their deathball to defend their bases.
I'd actually like to see this.
I think all gateway units should be able to be produced from gateways but only a few should be able to be warped in. It won't completely fix everything, but I do think it's a good starting point.
HT being one of the gateway exclusive units with the amulet back for compensation. It'd be harder to reinforce offensively and spread them out on the map for storm flanks, but they'd be way better for defense and storm drops would be more common.
On May 13 2015 01:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote: If they reinstated Khaydarin Amulet, Protoss wouldn't need to teleport their deathball to defend their bases.
I'd actually like to see this.
I think all gateway units should be able to be produced from gateways but only a few should be able to be warped in. It won't completely fix everything, but I do think it's a good starting point.
HT being one of the gateway exclusive units with the amulet back for compensation. It'd be harder to reinforce offensively and spread them out on the map for storm flanks, but they'd be way better for defense and storm drops would be more common.
I've always wished they'd have balanced Protoss around warp-in Storms, since it was in my opinion the most exciting and unique style of Protoss play, but I have no idea about the difficulties involved in doing so. Ultimately I have to trust that game designers know how to do their jobs.
EPT
