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LotV Balance Update Preview - May 11

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
320 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 15 16 17 Next All
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14461 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-11 18:45:35
May 11 2015 18:35 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Hey everyone! We’ve got more updates on the way for the Legacy of the Void Multiplayer beta. However, before we get to the specific changes and what else we’re working on internally, we’d like to talk about a couple things.

First, we’d like to inquire once more on the in-game clock changing to real time. This change is looking positive so far, so we’d like to start thinking about committing to making this change for Legacy of the Void. On our end, we see the advantages and disadvantages of going either way, and we’d really love to rely on you all to make a call in this area that you feel is best. The only thing we must avoid is having an option to go back and forth between the HotS clock and a real-time clock. We are sure that this will be confusing, especially when viewing various events that use different clocks.

The second thing we want to address also relates to time. As you likely know, the StarCraft II development team is currently working on an automated tournament feature. Just as it was in Warcraft 3 automated tournaments, we can’t have two people that play for hours drag out a result for everyone else in the same automated tournament. The solution that we are currently testing for this dilemma is to end every automated tournament game at the 30 min mark (~42 min or so in HoTS time), at which point the winner is determined by whichever player earned more XP in that game. This number itself isn’t final, and we’ll be looking at how the actual tournament games turn out. We can easily tune this as needed when we start testing automated tournaments.

When exploring this specific concept for automated tournaments, we also wondered if every melee game in SC2 should also have a rule like this to prevent long, boring, dragged out games in the future. We believe with the Swarm Host fix, as well as how so many changes in LoTV cater heavily towards aggressive play, the chances of 2-3+ hour games happening in the future is quite low. However, we also know that some dragged out games have happened due to players trolling, or other player behaviors that can’t be controlled. To avoid this, we are considering putting a time limit on standard melee games around the 1.5 hour mark or so since this seems to be beyond the longest a legitimate game could go. We are only beginning to consider this idea, and we wanted to hear your thoughts on this subject in order to make a better decision.

Now, let move on and discuss the specific changes we’re thinking about for the next balance update.


Mothership Core & Mothership

  • Mass Recall cost reduced from 100 energy to 50 energy
    With the resource changes in LotV, we agree that Protoss seems to be struggling the most when it comes to defending bases at various locations. We believe that decreasing the cost of Mass Recall is a good change, in that it will both help Protoss players defend multiple bases easier, and also allow them to play more aggressive throughout the early/mid stages of the game.


Mothership

  • Movement speed increased from 1.41 to 1.88 to match the Mothership Core
    Same abilities as Mothership Core + Cloaking Field
    Previously, we were exploring a lot of new abilities and ideas on this front. For now however, we have decided to make the Mothership simply a much improved version of the Mothership Core. Mothership Core abilities are critical throughout the course of the game, but towards the end of the game, the Mothership Core becomes an extremely fragile unit. Therefore, we’d like to try having the Mothership be just a better version of the Mothership Core that no longer has trade-offs for its increased stats.


Oracle Stasis: Forced Auto-cast

  • We’re seeing certain strategies with the Oracle’s Stasis ability where players are stacking the ability several times, and then manually detonating them over time to indefinitely leave units in Stasis. With our focus on constant combat, this is obviously something that we have no desire for and this change should effectively end this behavior.


Brood Lord

  • Range increased to 11
    No longer has the frenzied passive
    We’ve been exploring potential changes to the Brood Lord, and we’ve recently settled on a range increase to differentiate the unit further from other tech options Zerg has at that tier. Additionally, we’re removing the passive ability of Frenzy now since it is not needed. For context, this ability was added back when ZvZ defensive Swarm Host + mass Spore Crawler was an issue, but now that the issue is gone, we no longer see the need for this ability to protect Brood Lords from the Viper’s abduct.


Upgraded Zealot speed increased from 2.75 to 2.953

  • With the addition of the Adept, the Zealots role has been reduced in the later stages game. To adjust for this, we decided to make a mid/late game buff to Zealots that makes the Zealots be a more ideal choice in certain situations compared to the Adept. Alternatively, we could have toned down the effectiveness of the Adept, but overall we agree with the community opinion that Protoss isn’t as powerful as the other two races currently, so we felt this change was best.


Lurker damage changed from 30 damage to 20 +10 vs. armored

  • We feel that the counter to mass Lurkers is too heavily leaning towards mass air. We’d like to try out this change in order to see if we can get more ground based interactions against the Lurker. With the unique way that Lurker’s deal damage, it would be great to see more micro against players using Lurkers.


Disruptor gains unit type: Armored

  • The Disruptor survives for a bit too long even when caught off guard, and we didn’t want to do a big nerf to the unit yet, so we picked something small in adding that +armored damage units will deal more damage against them. It’s also convenient that the unit looks armored, so this felt like a good change to test out.


Closing

  • As a final update, we wanted to let you know more about the areas we’re testing internally.

    We’re exploring ways to give more power to Terran bio play.
    We’re trying new ability ideas for the Raven’s PDD and Ghost’s Snipe.
    We’re developing the new Terran unit
    We’re getting comfortable with the air unit we’ve been exploring. Here’s how it currently operates:
    Two attack modes:
    Fast movement with spash-damage vs air
    Can enter a stationary-mode where it changes to attack vs ground. This attack targets an area where any units within that area receive high single-target damage.

We’re doing our best to get this unit out to you all as soon as possible. In addition to this new unit, we will be once again splitting apart mech and air upgrades at the Armory. We believe the Starport is more all-around in its capabilities now, and we’re seeing a lot of cool things in internal playtests. With the mech upgrades being split out again, Terran players will need to more fully choose which tech paths they would like to commit to.

As always, please remember that none of this is final since we’re still in the early stages of the beta, and your feedback is always welcome. Please let us know your thoughts on any of the topics discussed above so that together, we can make the decisions that are best for the game. Thank you!


Source : http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19085494/legacy-of-the-void-beta-balance-update-preview-may-11-5-11-2015

Poll: Mothership Core & Mothership changes ?

I like it. (404)
 
48%

I don't like it. (387)
 
46%

I don't care (46)
 
5%

837 total votes

Your vote: Mothership Core & Mothership changes ?

(Vote): I like it.
(Vote): I don't like it.
(Vote): I don't care


Poll: Mothership changes ?

I like it. (435)
 
75%

I don't like it. (95)
 
16%

I don't care (47)
 
8%

577 total votes

Your vote: Mothership changes ?

(Vote): I like it.
(Vote): I don't like it.
(Vote): I don't care


Poll: Oracle Stasis: Forced Auto-cast changes ?

I like it. (337)
 
64%

I don't like it. (124)
 
23%

I don't care (68)
 
13%

529 total votes

Your vote: Oracle Stasis: Forced Auto-cast changes ?

(Vote): I like it.
(Vote): I don't like it.
(Vote): I don't care


Poll: Brood Lord changes ?

I like it. (309)
 
58%

I don't like it. (137)
 
26%

I don't care (84)
 
16%

530 total votes

Your vote: Brood Lord changes ?

(Vote): I like it.
(Vote): I don't like it.
(Vote): I don't care


Poll: Upgraded Zealot speed increased from 2.75 to 2.953 changes ?

I like it. (385)
 
64%

I don't like it. (190)
 
32%

I don't care (25)
 
4%

600 total votes

Your vote: Upgraded Zealot speed increased from 2.75 to 2.953 changes ?

(Vote): I like it.
(Vote): I don't like it.
(Vote): I don't care


Poll: Lurker damage changed from 30 damage to 20 +10 vs. armored changes ?

I like it. (378)
 
73%

I don't like it. (102)
 
20%

I don't care (40)
 
8%

520 total votes

Your vote: Lurker damage changed from 30 damage to 20 +10 vs. armored changes ?

(Vote): I like it.
(Vote): I don't like it.
(Vote): I don't care


Poll: Disruptor gains unit type: Armored changes ?

I like it. (318)
 
68%

I don't care (85)
 
18%

I don't like it. (64)
 
14%

467 total votes

Your vote: Disruptor gains unit type: Armored changes ?

(Vote): I like it.
(Vote): I don't like it.
(Vote): I don't care



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SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-11 18:39:32
May 11 2015 18:38 GMT
#2
>Mass Recall cost reduced from 100 energy to 50 energy

Because why should a protoss player ever have to worry about good army positioning and movement? Let's just make it so they can have all their units anywhere they want at any time with no consequence! With recall and photon overcharge, there's no need to ever have defensive units at all and you can always move out without worry of being punished ever.

They say they want to discourage deathball play, then they make units like the mothership core encourage it in every way. I'm at a loss for words at how dumb this is.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
91matt
Profile Joined March 2013
United Kingdom147 Posts
May 11 2015 18:39 GMT
#3
i cant even bring myself to play this game until they do something about the 12 worker start
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-11 18:45:26
May 11 2015 18:41 GMT
#4
Mass Recall for 50 energy, if that happens I don't need a beta invite .

Oh and automated tournaments!!!! So sick!
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
May 11 2015 18:41 GMT
#5
Votes?
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
May 11 2015 18:43 GMT
#6
To avoid this, we are considering putting a time limit on standard melee games around the 1.5 hour mark or so since this seems to be beyond the longest a legitimate game could go.

Brb, looking for my 2:22:13 WoL game that wasn't decided until after the 2 hour mark.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
May 11 2015 18:43 GMT
#7
On May 12 2015 03:38 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
>Mass Recall cost reduced from 100 energy to 50 energy

Because why should a protoss player ever have to worry about good army positioning and movement? Let's just make it so they can have all their units anywhere they want at any time with no consequence! With recall and photon overcharge, there's no need to ever have defensive units at all and you can always move out without worry of being punished ever.

They say they want to discourage deathball play, then they make units like the mothership core encourage it in every way. I'm at a loss for words at how dumb this is.

amen
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
May 11 2015 18:44 GMT
#8
We’re seeing certain strategies with the Oracle’s Stasis ability where players are stacking the ability several times, and then manually detonating them over time to indefinitely leave units in Stasis. With our focus on constant combat, this is obviously something that we have no desire for and this change should effectively end this behavior.


Blizzard always trying to stomp down on creativity.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
TheOneAboveU
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany3367 Posts
May 11 2015 18:44 GMT
#9
On May 12 2015 03:38 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
>Mass Recall cost reduced from 100 energy to 50 energy

Because why should a protoss player ever have to worry about good army positioning and movement? Let's just make it so they can have all their units anywhere they want at any time with no consequence! With recall and photon overcharge, there's no need to ever have defensive units at all and you can always move out without worry of being punished ever.

They say they want to discourage deathball play, then they make units like the mothership core encourage it in every way. I'm at a loss for words at how dumb this is.


This so much... are they even aware of what they are doing?
Moderatoralias TripleM | @TL_TripleM | Big Dark Energy!
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9407 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-11 18:46:06
May 11 2015 18:45 GMT
#10
Such a shame that Blizzard is trying to balance the lack of mobility for protoss through teleports. I think this is almost an issue with Blizzard wanting each race to be as different as possible. I can't see any other reasons for why you wouldn't just give protoss a proper and relatively mobile core army so they could actually move their army around.

So I almost think it comes down to Blizzard overanalyzing the issue here and trying to add unique solutions, rather than just giving the players what they want.
Bakawanko
Profile Joined May 2015
3 Posts
May 11 2015 18:45 GMT
#11
I was REALLY hoping Blizzard would remove the mothership/core altogether not buff it and even consider adding more abilities to it. Buffing a bandaid unit doesnt fix the core problem that protoss is just not a well designed race. I know I'm gonna get hate for that but thats just a fact of the matter. I was really hoping they would take the plunge and rework protoss so its a more fun to watch/play in LotV instead of trying to polish the same turd.
padiseal2
Profile Joined August 2012
Austria721 Posts
May 11 2015 18:45 GMT
#12
pleeeaaase don't add a max game length for ladder and (not ingame) tournaments. The long and goofy games are also the most memorable and tend to get the most viewership, I really dislike the idea of removing them.

Fully understand limiting game length for tournaments though, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a better way
Samsungjackets on twitch || 강민수 화이팅
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France1939 Posts
May 11 2015 18:46 GMT
#13
No adept nerf makes me a happy geiko
geiko.813 (EU)
Aocowns
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway6070 Posts
May 11 2015 18:48 GMT
#14
oh god the recall lol
I'm a salt-lord and hater of mech and ForGG, don't take me seriously, it's just my salt-humour speaking i swear. |KadaverBB best TL gaoler| |~IdrA's #1 fan~| SetGuitarsToKill and Duckk are my martyr heroes |
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-11 18:53:41
May 11 2015 18:50 GMT
#15
Well, I can definitely get behind those Protoss changes. I didn't even consider the possibility of abusing stasis that way though haha.

While I feel these are overall good changes, I'm a tad disappointed they aren't more...severe? Maybe this is just a tweak patch and we'll get a bigger one later this month. Still hoping Blizzard goes crazy with trying new things.

It also looks like they're pretty set on this silly half-patch economy. I gotta be honest, that might be a big deal breaker for me with LotV, I just hate how it makes games feel =/

Having said all that, the stuff about automated tournaments gets me really excited in my special place! 30 min cap on games for automated tournaments seems TOTALLY reasonable, we'll just have to see if "XP earned" is the best metric or not.

edit: WTF at people shitting on the Recall changes? Protoss sucks right now precisely because it's so friggin' hard to defend multiple bases as early as you need them in LotV. Do you really want Zealot/Stalker/Sentry/robo units to move as fast as stimmed bio/Zerg on creep? I prefer this solution, it's more Protoss-y and doesn't require a pretty big change to all other Protoss ground units.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
NMxSardines
Profile Joined February 2012
77 Posts
May 11 2015 18:51 GMT
#16
All the knee-jerk reactions towards David Kim testing things out in a free beta are making me nauseous.

Yes, the Starcraft 2 development team is fully aware that reducing the Recall energy cost to 50 could have detrimental effects - they are testing this out exactly because this is Beta and there are no tournaments or out-comes to influence. LotV does not even have ladder ranks - this is the perfect time to attempt radical changes.

Consider how difficult it is to try and release balance updates in HotS - the performance of many pro-gamers is on the line. We've had to wait many MONTHS in order for the Swarm Host nerf to come out, and even then the change to the Swarm Hosts is not final. (There were further changes made to the Swarm Host in LotV that could potentially be transferred to HotS)
knOxStarcraft
Profile Joined March 2012
Canada422 Posts
May 11 2015 18:53 GMT
#17
Still nothing about the economy eh, that's a shame. It's too hard to scout openers with the economy being so fast, even with immediate scouting workers on 4 player maps.

Lurker damage reduction is good, may need a health reduction too though.

Hate the MSC and Mothership changes, in fact the units are just crap in the first place, they encourage unit clumping and make for boring games, especially the mothership.

Broodlord change was random, not sure why they did that.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
May 11 2015 18:54 GMT
#18
I almost, almost think it's a good sign that they haven't made any economic changes, since they promised heavy changes that aren't anywhere to be seen. Still very nervous.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Topin
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Peru10092 Posts
May 11 2015 18:57 GMT
#19
On May 12 2015 03:43 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2015 03:38 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
>Mass Recall cost reduced from 100 energy to 50 energy

Because why should a protoss player ever have to worry about good army positioning and movement? Let's just make it so they can have all their units anywhere they want at any time with no consequence! With recall and photon overcharge, there's no need to ever have defensive units at all and you can always move out without worry of being punished ever.

They say they want to discourage deathball play, then they make units like the mothership core encourage it in every way. I'm at a loss for words at how dumb this is.

amen

bless you
i would define my style between a mix of ByuN, Maru and MKP
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
May 11 2015 18:58 GMT
#20
I wish they were clearer on the Broodlord change. Is it the broodlord range that goes from 9.5 to 11, or is it the broodling range that changes from 9 to 11. Because if it really is the first, that mainly helps with a-moving and all of that stuff, but isn't really a change to the broodlords range.
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