EPTThe fact they have energy based non stop scouting - halluc, combined with instant teleportation just makes it so forgiving compared to terran and zerg who, in a sticky situation, can pretty much lose the game via wrong army movement.
LotV Balance Update Preview - May 11 - Page 3
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Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4511 Posts
The fact they have energy based non stop scouting - halluc, combined with instant teleportation just makes it so forgiving compared to terran and zerg who, in a sticky situation, can pretty much lose the game via wrong army movement. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5406 Posts
On May 12 2015 04:04 Aquila- wrote: Completely random changes instead of changing things that really need it at the moment? Like mass adept with like 6 gates and warpprism is literally unstoppable as Terran? I've been away for about 10 days or so. Is this a legit strat now? 10 days ago adepts seemed gimmicky/weak. Guess I should start watching some streams again... | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On May 12 2015 04:23 Liquid`Ret wrote: I cannot understand the 50 energy recall change. On a full energy mothership, protoss can make 4 fatal blunders, which would cost teran or zerg the game instantly, without any backlash. Oops, I shouldn't have been here, ahhh, not gonna lose any units anyway, peace. The fact they have energy based non stop scouting - halluc, combined with instant teleportation just makes it so forgiving compared to terran and zerg who, in a sticky situation, can pretty much lose the game via wrong army movement. Agree 100%. Instand, downside-free teleportation should not be an RTS mechanic, but it's all Protoss is about and it just doesn't work no matter how much Blizzard tries to pretend it does. Recall + warp gates is just bad mechanics, and now they've made it even better. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23570 Posts
On May 12 2015 04:23 Liquid`Ret wrote: I cannot understand the 50 energy recall change. On a full energy mothership, protoss can make 4 fatal blunders, which would cost teran or zerg the game instantly, without any backlash. Oops, I shouldn't have been here, ahhh, not gonna lose any units anyway, peace. The fact they have energy based non stop scouting - halluc, combined with instant teleportation just makes it so forgiving compared to terran and zerg who, in a sticky situation, can pretty much lose the game via wrong army movement. Well put! I think i's more than 4 though, with the energy regeneration I'd say it's close to infinite recalls as long as they use them offensively. They can walk over the map, get surrounded, recall. By the time they repeated that mistake 3 more times, enough energy for 2 or 3 more recalls should be ready. Defensively, when recalling from Nexus to Nexus it's "only" 4 though. Town Portal didn't cost 350 gold in wc3 for no reason, it's fucking OP. You can run around, snipe bases and port out, no risk. The balance doesn't even matter right now since it's beta, but just the design decision is mind boggling. You can't make a mistake as Protoss, you don't need units in position or scout the opponents army movement and you don't need to worry about being careful when getting aggressive. Nothing can happen. | ||
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Shinespark
Chile843 Posts
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TurboMaN
Germany925 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5212 Posts
On May 12 2015 04:23 Liquid`Ret wrote: I cannot understand the 50 energy recall change. On a full energy mothership, protoss can make 4 fatal blunders, which would cost teran or zerg the game instantly, without any backlash. Oops, I shouldn't have been here, ahhh, not gonna lose any units anyway, peace. The fact they have energy based non stop scouting - halluc, combined with instant teleportation just makes it so forgiving compared to terran and zerg who, in a sticky situation, can pretty much lose the game via wrong army movement. Let's just remove the MSC core from the game and buff Protoss Gateway units. | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On May 12 2015 04:31 Musicus wrote: Well put! I think i's more than 4 though, with the energy regeneration I'd say it's close to infinite recalls as long as they use them offensively. They can walk over the map, get surrounded, recall. By the time they repeated that mistake 3 more times, enough energy for 2 or 3 more recalls should be ready. Defensively, when recalling from Nexus to Nexus it's "only" 4 though. Town Portal didn't cost 350 gold in wc3 for no reason, it's fucking OP. You can run around, snipe bases and port out, no risk. The balance doesn't even matter right now since it's beta, but just the design decision is mind boggling. You can't make a mistake as Protoss, you don't need units in position or scout the opponents army movement and you don't need to worry about being careful when getting aggressive. Nothing can happen. But you know what will happen? Since attack-->recall-->attack-->recall ad infinum is very obviously going to be overpowered, especially in combination with forcefields, blinks, shadow walks, disruptors, storms and shields making sure you get the better end of the first seconds of a battle before recalling, the only way to balance will be that Protoss never gets to attack before they have a deathball. NEVER. The moment they can start to attack, they snowball. Basically every Protoss unit becomes a locusts with this change. You think you have broken through to them and can finally start doing damage? HAHAHAHAHA, they aren't even there anymore. I guess Terran can snipe the MsC with Vikings or EMP it. | ||
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Bakawanko
3 Posts
Protoss more than the other races NEED to make gimmicky spell caster units to cover up the glaring design flaws in the race, this shouldnt be the case, but its sad that it is and Blizzard sees nothing wrong with it. | ||
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Shinespark
Chile843 Posts
Seems to me that the problem is that important protoss units in general are too slow, and giving the core 4 recalls instead of 2 doesn't fix that, if anything, no protoss will ever dare walk out without their core anymore, making them even slower. | ||
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astray71
United States325 Posts
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magicallypuzzled
United States588 Posts
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fireforce7
United States334 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23570 Posts
On May 12 2015 04:42 Shinespark wrote: If protoss wants to make effective use of their 4 recalls if the change goes through, they need to keep the mothership core with their army, which reduces the speed of the army to that of the core. If Blizz wants to give protoss more mobility, maybe not forcing them to have the core with their army would be a start. Or giving the core a speed boost through an upgrade, that invariably no one will get at first. In any case, templar are also slow as molasses, and colossi are not much faster. Seems to me that the problem is that important protoss units in general are too slow, and giving the core 4 recalls instead of 2 doesn't fix that, if anything, no protoss will ever dare walk out without their core anymore, making them even slower. Very good point, increasing the dependency of the protoss army on the MSC is the worst they can do. Strategies will focus around it, once it gets sniped Protoss is fucked. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
"Stats has a base on the other side of the biggest map in the mappool that he cannot defend with his whole army while getting dropped at home. This isn't right!" | ||
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1607 Posts
Why not to try new economy model first and then tweaking units towards this model? Or is it final? | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
Made a mistake? just recall, 3 continues left try again. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On May 12 2015 04:04 Aquila- wrote: Completely random changes instead of changing things that really need it at the moment? Like mass adept with like 6 gates and warpprism is literally unstoppable as Terran? I figured this out and wrecked my friend with it lol. It's fun! | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
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