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On April 28 2015 03:58 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Swarm Host
- I'm just going to fucking say it, redesign Zerg AA and let these things spawn scourge for RESOURCES.
On April 28 2015 04:00 ElMeanYo wrote:
Hmm. I like that idea... maybe make them weaker then BW scourges because they are you know... free.
rofl
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On April 28 2015 04:45 emin wrote:
Wasn't the Cyclone meant to fight vs Air Units when a Terran goes Mech? I don't see the sense in removing its ability to fight air this will just end in another unit conjunction than hellion/cyclone is it? :O
Pls if i forgot something point it out for me so i can understand if this nerf is good or bad :O
It's to "delay" its ability to shoot air, since with the current situation Terran can just fast tech to cyclone and be nearly invulnerable to a great deal of air based (incl drops) harass, plus has a very potent way to hunt overlords of the map.
Now Terran will have some weakness vs air if they go fast cyclones and may need to invest a little in defense like a couple marines or a turret (don't even need ebay now...) or even try save some gas to get the AA ability.
I like it for the fact cyclones are OP in low unit number battles (early game) while loosing lots of their shinning later. This upgrade requirement nerfs it a little early game and gives all three races an easier tech "counter" as an option to a cyclone/hellion play.
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On April 28 2015 03:25 Clbull wrote:The problem with the Ravager isn't the attack period or the weapon range. It's how overpowered Corrosive Bile is. Corrosive Bile offers an early game method for Zerg players to: - Reliably all-in on one or two bases.
- Decimate structures and immobile units (i.e. Siege Tanks) through unavoidable and unpreventable damage, via Corrosive Bile.
- Bust forcefields; something which Terran and Protoss cannot do until they tech into Tier 3 units (i.e. Archons, Thors and Colossus)
In fact, some of the changes that have been made in Legacy of the Void so far have really weakened Protoss. Protoss are heavily reliant on forcefields to hold all-ins. This nerf to the Ravager won't change the fact that forcefields can easily be busted via this all in and a Roach/Ravager flood can straight-up instagib the defender. Ravagers either need a redesign, a nerf to Corrosive Bile in the early game, or a nerf to the unit itself to move it up to Hive tech.
It doesn't need to be at Hive tech that's absurd, but it does need to be at Lair tech with Ravager morph preferably as a researched upgrade at the Roach Warren similar to Brood War Lurkers. That would allow Zergs to make their Ravager all ins vs Protoss but it would be much later than they can now which also helps to alleviate the impact Ravagers are making to early game ZvZ.
Cyclones need a range nerf and a nerf to their hit points or they will continue to rule the early game of both TvT and TvP. They have more hit points than fucking Siege Tanks for crying out loud. If nothing else AT LEAST make them require an Armory.
Swarm Hosts in this form seem like they could be more fun, but I think giving them both the innate flying Locust and the Burrow move is too much. Burrow Move Swarm Hosts would be interesting on their own without their payload being able to bypass terrain.
Those are some of my thoughts on this. I still hate Disruptors and I'm convinced in their current form they are way too powerful in PvZ, hopefully the nerfs to the Ravagers help stabilize the match up more so that more games actually go far enough for Protoss to use them so everyone else can see what I'm seeing.
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Wait do reapers require tech lab again now? Extra damage on the super fast available reapers seems a bit insane.
I like the ravager nerf, cyclone nerf seems too weak. I like the warpin change. Swarmhosts gonna be strange xD
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On April 28 2015 03:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
New Terran Unit
Before we get into the changes for existing units, we’d like to first discuss the status of the new Terran unit. We’ve been experimenting with various ideas, from a new base defense structure, to an add-on that allows production facilities to change their type. At this time however, it seems we may move forward with a unit from the Starport. There are various ways we’ve been experimenting with this unit:
Oh my God, I had missed this... Here we go:
On April 11 2015 06:39 TheDwf wrote:
Completeness is toxic for the game. Structural holes are what makes things interesting. For instance, Terran would stop being Terran if they received some metaphysical horror like the “tech reactors” from the campaign or static defence (or more brainless melee units). Having those structural holes within the architecture of the race is what defines it. Working around structural holes is players' job.
I shudder to think of what they will do with Terran.
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Reaper
Dno how it works out, but I agree with the notion of giving the Reaper some type of weak AOE ability. I hope this is a skillshot as well.
Ravager
Ravager doesn't become more differentiated just by cuttings its DPS in half. Balance change =/ Gives a proper role to the unit.
Cyclone
Cyclone has lame interations against almost all units. The AA removal/upgrade-thing is a balance change mainly, and that doesn't deal with the issue properly.
I am already incredibly tired of watching this unit in play, not just because of how OP it was, but because of how predictable it is: Amove with it --> Lock on --> Move back --> Repeat. Compare that to a Marine on the other hand, and notice how many more different ways there is to micro this unit dependant on the compostion of the enemy.
Swarm Hosts
Maybe it's a small improvement, but I don't really care. The the idea of free units flying around the map is retarded.
At this point I am very close to just accepting that LOTV isn't the game for me. While last patch wasn't as well received, I overall thought it had more steps in the "right direction" (not my desired solution, but still led to improved gameplay). However, at this point in time it has become clear to me that Blizzard is pretty far off.
Why aren't we lowering more unit's DP?
You should have asked "why stop at 0.167 DP?"
0.167 is the default DP, andt the Adept just received that. Why not go further down?
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On April 28 2015 04:45 Jornada wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 03:16 Ramiz1989 wrote:
I like the idea behind Terran having more independent units and tech paths, looking forward to see what will they do with Bio.
Reaper
Love the idea, we don't know what will the damage be but with little tweaks it might get Reaper into great spot and they might become useful mid-late game units with this. Now, if only they would make Ghosts more useful but we will see.
Adept
This should have been in the last update that didn't manage to get included. Probably a good change, pushing Adepts towards core units.
Cyclone
It makes sense, but I don't think that it will solve the problems with the unit.
Ravager
They should probably change them a little and make it feel like a different unit. In the last patch it felt like big Hydralisk, now it feels like big Roach.
Swarm Host
Wow, didn't expect this. This might even make them broken to be honest. I would love to see these Swarm Hosts in action. Well ... you said nothing useful
That's my opinion on all these units changes.
You, however, really said nothing useful with that quote.
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Blizzard should have the energize pylons from Starbow for protoss, which makes them shield batteries. Instantly fixes all protoss defensive issues (maybe). And chronoboost on photon cannons, but with removal of photon overcharge. And keep the warpgate nerf.
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These changes seem to be moving in the right direction. Hopefully Blizz keeps it up and doesn't stop bringing smart changes to the game.
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On April 28 2015 04:45 emin wrote:
Wasn't the Cyclone meant to fight vs Air Units when a Terran goes Mech? I don't see the sense in removing its ability to fight air this will just end in another unit conjunction than hellion/cyclone is it? :O
Pls if i forgot something point it out for me so i can understand if this nerf is good or bad :O
It's only pushing it back. The upgrade is available for research 46 seconds (and 150/150 resources) after the first starport is built. It's not like there's no way to reach it.
So instead of instantly shutting down mutas/oracles/whatever, it may require a bit more scouting and planning this way.
Until then, it can still kill anything on the ground without getting hit.
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Really interesting changes, I like almost all of them. Cyclones may still be too strong, though. That SH change looks weird, but at least it may be actually used in games.
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On April 28 2015 05:15 Grumbels wrote:
Blizzard should have the energize pylons from Starbow for protoss, which makes them shield batteries. Instantly fixes all protoss defensive issues (maybe). And chronoboost on photon cannons, but with removal of photon overcharge. And keep the warpgate nerf.
The first idea is cool.
The second idea sounds devastating with cannon rushes.
Why not just scale the immortal down and move it to gateway?
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Why not just fix the Ghost?
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David Kim just posted this on reddit
"Sorry guys. We just wanted to share every detail as soon as we can, so this part came across a bit confusing. Just to clarify a bit more:
We've tried so many various units and buildings, but it's looking like the Terran flying unit is the most solid option.
We're pretty sure that we'll go with the new Starport unit.
It will be a AA unit against masses of air units. It will have a more limited use vs. ground for when there are no air targets remaining.
What types of damage it will do, and how it'll interact with ground are things we're exploring at the moment.
We'll definitely keep everyone posted as we know more."
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3420ez/legacy_of_the_void_beta_balance_update_preview/
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On April 28 2015 05:29 BaNishedTemplar wrote:David Kim just posted this on reddit "Sorry guys. We just wanted to share every detail as soon as we can, so this part came across a bit confusing. Just to clarify a bit more: We've tried so many various units and buildings, but it's looking like the Terran flying unit is the most solid option. We're pretty sure that we'll go with the new Starport unit. It will be a AA unit against masses of air units. It will have a more limited use vs. ground for when there are no air targets remaining. What types of damage it will do, and how it'll interact with ground are things we're exploring at the moment. We'll definitely keep everyone posted as we know more." Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3420ez/legacy_of_the_void_beta_balance_update_preview/
No thanks, the revamped Valkyrie can safely stay in its original home. Terran should suffer against mutas and mech should have a calculated weakness in the anti-air department.
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On April 28 2015 05:27 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 05:15 Grumbels wrote:Blizzard should have the energize pylons from Starbow for  Protoss,  Which makes them shield batteries. Instantly fixes all Protoss defensive issues (maybe). And chronoboost on photon cannons, but with removal of photon overcharge. And keep the warpgate nerf. The First idea is COol. The second idea sounds devastating with cannon rushes. Why not  just scale the Immortal down and move it to gateway?
Yeah, in starbow they had to rebalance cannons, but it was a cool change anyway.
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On April 28 2015 05:27 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 05:15 Grumbels wrote:
Blizzard should have the energize pylons from Starbow for protoss, which makes them shield batteries. Instantly fixes all protoss defensive issues (maybe). And chronoboost on photon cannons, but with removal of photon overcharge. And keep the warpgate nerf. The first idea is cool. The second idea sounds devastating with cannon rushes. Why not just scale the immortal down and move it to gateway?
O_O. Never in a million years would I have imagined a zerg suggesting warp in immortals.
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On April 28 2015 05:33 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 05:27 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On April 28 2015 05:15 Grumbels wrote:Blizzard should have the energize pylons from Starbow for Protoss, Which makes them shield batteries. Instantly fixes all Protoss defensive issues (maybe). And chronoboost on photon cannons, but with removal of photon overcharge. And keep the warpgate nerf. The First idea is COol. The second idea sounds devastating with cannon rushes. Why not just scale the Immortal down and move it to gateway? Yeah, in starbow they had to rebalance cannons, but it was a cool change anyway.
It was reverted though, but in order to use CB you needed to upgrade your Nexus (like CC --> OC).
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So now will be going form a few ravagers each game to 0 against most a a couple maybe vs Protoss, talking about bad changes, now it really feels like a true Zerg unit, extremely overpriced, while not adding anything in most situations.
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EPT
