EPTLotV Balance Update Preview - April 27 - Page 7
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Survivor61316
United States470 Posts
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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
On April 28 2015 06:22 Survivor61316 wrote: Yeah..probably not getting LotV at this point good thing theres like a year of beta left then lol | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On April 28 2015 05:38 TheDwf wrote: The idea is to make the Immortal act like the Dragoon that the Protoss race desperately needs (the Adept is bound to become a fiasco). It's indeed incompatible with Warpgate at Core tech + 120-160s, but it's more than time to delay Warpgate until at least the beginning of midgame. (Ideally, Protoss players should have the decision to play with or without.) Even Dragoons are way too strong to be warped in. See starbow. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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coolman123123
146 Posts
-The factory has too many overlapping units. If I had my way, I'd remove the Widow Mine, Thor and Cyclone. Replace them with a straightforward mobile ground anti-air (Goliath), and possibly a tank buff or something. Also, I still think the Hellbat looks silly as fuck. But whatever. -The ghost still sucks, as does late game Bio Terran. Ghost redesign seems like a no-brainer. I imagine they are working on this. -I think the new air unit should just replace the Viking. They currently overlap far. far too much, and the Viking is boring as shit. The BC could be adjusted to fit the tiny hole left by the Viking. -I'm actually okay with them trying to make the SH work, but I don't think they will. At this point they almost seem to be designed for the same style of play as burrowed infestors. -speaking of infestors, they seem mostly useless now. The Viper skill replaces fungal as the best anti air splash. just cut the unit. -Their approach to the adept makes little sense to me. It seems like they are trying to make this weird compromise between a Reaper-esque harassment unit and a core fighter. They really need to figure out what they want it to be. -I really wish they would just grow a pair and remove the Colossus. they clearly don't want it to be a big part of the game, just let it go. | ||
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WhenRaxFly
45 Posts
On April 28 2015 06:29 Aocowns wrote: good thing theres like a year of beta left then lol A year? That's way too long, you just made me depressed -.- | ||
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HellHound
Bulgaria5962 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On April 28 2015 06:40 WhenRaxFly wrote: A year? That's way too long, you just made me depressed -.- Nah, it won't last for a year but 6 months at least. | ||
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saulovh5150
Norway10 Posts
Why not make terran buildings take damage over time if they are lifted for more than 3 or 4 minutes? This would characterize the attempt to stall the game and the runaway would have to land and repair it, giving the opportunity to the opponent who doesn't have flying units to finish it. It could have been fixed in 1998/1999 already. Retreating is one thing, running from the fight is another, wars don't reward cowards. I remember a game, some non-kr zerg was 1x0 against a kr terran, and winning the 2nd game. Then the terran forced the draw then won 2x1 when the defeat by 2x0 was imminent. Not sure if it was Goswser X Bomber, someone please correct me if it is wrong. But I myself have been through countless games, in SC1 and 2, having ground army and the other guy having just a building already on yellow. And I'm not the only one. PS: time to rename the mutalisk, or maybe make it mutate into something again?! | ||
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coolman123123
146 Posts
On April 28 2015 06:45 HellHound wrote: Every Lotv update makes me hate it more lol Yeah I've kind of given up hope tbh | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On April 28 2015 03:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: There looks to be some Ravager early game all-ins that are very difficult to stop. While we don’t know with 100% certainty that this is actually a problem When Blizzard says stuff like this, it makes it seem like they think there is something people aren't doing that they should be that will just nullify that all-in. And that is probably why the 4 Gate and 1-1-1 existed for so long without meaningful balance changes. It is as if David Kim has some secret strategic understanding of the game that no one else can figure out. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 28 2015 06:53 BronzeKnee wrote: When Blizzard says stuff like this, it makes it seem like they think there is something people aren't doing that they should be that will just nullify that all-in. And that is probably why the 4 Gate and 1-1-1 existed for so long without meaningful balance changes. It is as if David Kim has some secret strategic understanding of the game that no one else can figure out. Phoenix and Oracle openings shut it down very hard according to professional players. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On April 28 2015 06:09 JCoto wrote: We'll, I'd say that Hellion/Hellbat and Widow mines actually split the roles of Firebats and Vultures, so that makes 2 units, and reworks a bit their roles, since Widow Mines can target air. So it's 3 units reworking the role of 2. If this is true I have to say that hellion widow mine is the poorest imitation of vulture spider mine blizzard could have done. | ||
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On April 28 2015 06:35 coolman123123 wrote: At this point I think Blizzard's problem is that they are trying to fit too many units into the game. They really need to trim the fat. Here's what I think: -The factory has too many overlapping units. If I had my way, I'd remove the Widow Mine, Thor and Cyclone. Replace them with a straightforward mobile ground anti-air (Goliath), and possibly a tank buff or something. Also, I still think the Hellbat looks silly as fuck. But whatever. -I think the new air unit should just replace the Viking. They currently overlap far. far too much, and the Viking is boring as shit. The BC could be adjusted to fit the tiny hole left by the Viking. -speaking of infestors, they seem mostly useless now. The Viper skill replaces fungal as the best anti air splash. just cut the unit. -Their approach to the adept makes little sense to me. It seems like they are trying to make this weird compromise between a Reaper-esque harassment unit and a core fighter. They really need to figure out what they want it to be. You know that Vikings and Goliaths are 85% the same? Same type of damage, same movement values, almost same damage values, same ranges, close costs.... Viking was a refitted morphing Goliath that was however rebalanced during beta. . Goliaths were as fast as Vikings are on air, and Vikings on air are far less vulnerable than Goliaths were on ground. Vikings only need more ground speed and damage to match Goliaths per cost and stats almost perfectly. Vikings are versatile and have some uses, but suffer from the same issue than most air units.... engine incompatibility with micro. (Bad move-shot mechanics). With extra damage and speed they could be very usable on ground. I would also like to know what do Mines, Cyclones and Thors in common. Plz explain it. Infestor is very different from Viper. Infestor wasn't intended to be a dedicated AA, it was a support mechanic (stun) to combine with AoE (banelings, lurkers, Ultras). Their secondary use was AA. But it is true that they need a supportive mechanic. Vipers take the role of hardcasters, being more costly, while infestors are ground support mostly. Adept design is pretty stupid, I agree with you, and even more right now. 230HP per 100/25 and inneficient shooting WTF... is this some miniarchon? It shouldn't even be harasser. Good base stats, and good DPS vs light. Protoss needs the equivalent of a Marauder in that aspect: a core, relatively dispensable and efficient fighter. The added mechanic is up to them, but at least the base design should point towards a more "core fighter" infantry. But they are experimenting with it the hard way. IMAO the first thing I would do with the adept is to reduce their weapon CD and damage. An antilight infantry unit cannot spend 4.5 seconds to kill a zergling (2.25 weaon cd) or 6.75 to kill a CS marine, specially considering that ranged units like the Adept or Stalkers don't have smartfire and waste a lot shots. For example, 10+8vs light and 1.5 CD. Almost same DPS, but 50% less time to kill zerglings or marines. | ||
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
On April 28 2015 06:53 BronzeKnee wrote: When Blizzard says stuff like this, it makes it seem like they think there is something people aren't doing that they should be that will just nullify that all-in. And that is probably why the 4 Gate and 1-1-1 existed for so long without meaningful balance changes. It is as if David Kim has some secret strategic understanding of the game that no one else can figure out. i think this is soooooo true. its like blizzard wants the game to be one way that they like, and its a RTS its supposed to be figured out by the players( didnt really play BW ) but isnt that why BW became what it was/is. I feel that blizzard is trying to hard to make a perfect Esport viewing game and not just a Great game. I think and this is just me that blizzard needs to go back and make the best game they can and let the game figure its self out with balance and everything else, then worry about viewers and whatever. but where too deep into it now this is the 3rd expo of the game so idk anymore what to do. its not like they can just scrap everything and start a new. | ||
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Huxii
Denmark78 Posts
I'm wondering how meny people that actually know what they are talking about when wanting the DH9 econ. There is so many people being vocal on the subject and there is only so many in the beta. It kinds feels like people are just saying whatever the TL team is suggesting, without actually having played any games with the LotV econ. I like the 100/50% model, and haven't had any problems with not having enough time to tech before mining out or whatever. The games feel great, and i think people SHOULD get punished for not expanding. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On April 28 2015 07:24 Huxii wrote: I don't like the econ changes. I really liked the way it was before. The games feels so fast paced and action packed. If you are not expanding all the time you are gonna mine out, which i think is great. Forces you to fight over locations all the time, and makes it more impactful to take out an exspansion of your opponent. I'm wondering how meny people that actually know what they are talking about when wanting the DH9 econ. There is so many people being vocal on the subject and there is only so many in the beta. It kinds feels like people are just saying whatever the TL team is suggesting, without actually having played any games with the LotV econ. I like the 100/50% model, and haven't had any problems with not having enough time to tech before mining out or whatever. The games feel great, and i think people SHOULD get punished for not expanding. Strange that you don't like their econ change when difference between 100/50% and 100/60% is minor. I am not all that sure about economic changes that TL has suggested at all(DH10/9/8). | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
and so we are also interested in splitting out the mech and air upgrades again Really like that, upgrading pattern was becoming mindless for Terran... And holy fuck is the community stubborn with their fucking DH hahaha. Well, I hope this gets tested, but I'm convinced it's really not as good as you all believe it to be (and don't tell me I just don't understand the math behind it, I'm quite ok, thank you very much). Way too many options in the polls, like wtf, pick 3-4 choices at most... Overall the changes sound good to me. I like how they're handling it. Still a bit too conservative to my taste, but it's not like I can actually play the damn beta to see for myself :/ Edit: And I agree with most about the SwarmHost, that unit just doesn't work... | ||
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woopr
United States112 Posts
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