EPTLotV Balance Update Preview - April 27 - Page 16
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babobbyj
636 Posts
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Xerxes88
Austria2 Posts
I can login and play custom games but when i queue ladder unranked i get an "missing required game site information" error | ||
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babobbyj
636 Posts
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ohmylanta1003
United States128 Posts
On May 02 2015 00:06 babobbyj wrote: I started playing some League instead.. Blizzard, this is on you! Not League! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On May 02 2015 00:06 babobbyj wrote: I started playing some League instead.. Blizzard, this is on you! Another one bites the dust  . | ||
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babobbyj
636 Posts
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ALAMOSS
3 Posts
This might not be the right place for my comment but there it is. I think there is a big issue with the Viper. It's a great unit but very unbalanced. Abduct ability NEEDS modification. It is not normal and PHYSICALLY IMPOSIBLE for a unit like the viper to pull back a massive unit like a Mothership, a Battlecruiser or even a thor or an ultralisk... Plus the fact that abducting so easily a Unique Unit like the Mothership is Unba for Protoss. I think that one solution would be to change the size/price/speed of the Viper to make it a massive Unit that can abduct other massive units, or it can be an upgrade for normal Vipers that would make them massive. Another solution would be to change the abduct ability. Very simple, to abduct a massive Unit you would need several Vipers... | ||
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NasusAndDraven
359 Posts
On May 05 2015 23:45 ALAMOSS wrote: Hi every one. This might not be the right place for my comment but there it is. I think there is a big issue with the Viper. It's a great unit but very unbalanced. Abduct ability NEEDS modification. It is not normal and PHYSICALLY IMPOSIBLE for a unit like the viper to pull back a massive unit like a Mothership, a Battlecruiser or even a thor or an ultralisk... Plus the fact that abducting so easily a Unique Unit like the Mothership is Unba for Protoss. I think that one solution would be to change the size/price/speed of the Viper to make it a massive Unit that can abduct other massive units, or it can be an upgrade for normal Vipers that would make them massive. Another solution would be to change the abduct ability. Very simple, to abduct a massive Unit you would need several Vipers... ![[image loading]](http://cnet4.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/05/24/9e7eeea3-ad3f-4de8-91ba-96a0c20046bb/resize/770x578/40c1644ba872a0151882968d469003d1/tow-pulling-the-ship-full.jpg) How can so small boat pull so big ship? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 05 2015 23:45 ALAMOSS wrote: Hi every one. This might not be the right place for my comment but there it is. I think there is a big issue with the Viper. It's a great unit but very unbalanced. Abduct ability NEEDS modification. It is not normal and PHYSICALLY IMPOSIBLE for a unit like the viper to pull back a massive unit like a Mothership, a Battlecruiser or even a thor or an ultralisk... Plus the fact that abducting so easily a Unique Unit like the Mothership is Unba for Protoss. I think that one solution would be to change the size/price/speed of the Viper to make it a massive Unit that can abduct other massive units, or it can be an upgrade for normal Vipers that would make them massive. Another solution would be to change the abduct ability. Very simple, to abduct a massive Unit you would need several Vipers... The problem is not that it's “physically impossible” (lore is always an excuse), it's that it makes no sense as you say. Abduct is a stupid “your position is wrong now” tool (just like Forcefield) because Zergs don't evolve in their natural environment, i. e. the whole map with their superior maneuverability. That's why they “had” to implement Pudge's spell on a flyer so that Zerg had an anti-high value target button (because they can't dodge/delay enough the big army), resulting in the Vikings vs Viper and the HT vs Viper game of cubes. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On May 06 2015 00:19 NasusAndDraven wrote: How can so small boat pull so big ship? because Newton loves ships | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On May 06 2015 00:27 TheDwf wrote: The problem is not that it's “physically impossible” (lore is always an excuse), it's that it makes no sense as you say. Abduct is a stupid “your position is wrong now” tool (just like Forcefield) because Zergs don't evolve in their natural environment, i. e. the whole map with their superior maneuverability. That's why they “had” to implement Pudge's spell on a flyer so that Zerg had an anti-high value target button (because they can't dodge/delay enough the big army), resulting in the Vikings vs Viper and the HT vs Viper game of cubes. I've always defended that Abduct is not a bad spell to have but it's poorly balanced. Vipers are very strong and interesting casters, and nerfing Abduct wouldn't be the end of the world. Units have a variable called "mass" and Abduct should be based on that. It's physics and it's more fair for counterplays, specially since Abduct is a money shot against capital targets. For example, 1 Abduct is usually 1 free kill of of a Colossus, the unit that makes Protoss playable against many swarmy styles. I think that making Abduct only pull units based on their size would be okay. It can be easily adapted to balance it to each situation. It might be not the best mathematical, clear design, but it should work. Maybe now that Vipers are going to have a very strong AA mechanic with their parasitic bomb, we can really nerf abduct to make Massive units immune to it, and leave it as a mechanic to displace some Siege-like units Like Tanks and Lurkers, annoying casters like Oracles and Ravens, detectors or transports. The only fun we have had using Abduct was in ZvZ when Broodlords were relatively popular to break ZvZ stalemates, because the Zerg could tactically abduct their own units back. That was before the BL change. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On May 06 2015 00:48 JCoto wrote: I've always defended that Abduct is not a bad spell to have but it's poorly balanced. Units have a variable called "mass" and Abduct should be based on that. It's physics and it's more fair for counterplays, specially since Abduct is a money shot against capital targets. For example, 1 Abduct is usually 1 free kill of of a Colossus, the unit that makes Protoss playable against many swarmy styles. I think that making Abduct only pull units based on their size would be okay. It can be easily adapted to balance it to each situation. It might be not the best mathematical, clear design, but it should work. Maybe now that Vipers are going to have a very strong AA mechanic with their parasitic bomb, we can really nerf abduct to make Massive units immune to it, and leave it as a mechanic to displace some Siege-like units Like Tanks and Lurkers, or annoying casters like Oracles and Ravens. The only fun we have had using Abduct was in ZvZ when Broodlords were relatively popular to break ZvZ stalemates, because the Zerg could tactically abduct their own units back. Abduct only got introduced because Corruptors never cut it against Colossi and because blizzard rightfully wanted to get rid of rush-to-Broodlord-or-die-trying ZvP. With the Colossus nerf, there is little reason for it to exist. I do think it is not the worst spell in the book, because it makes for an interesting balance that makes massing these capital units kind of bad (you pull them one-by-one). It makes Zerg robust against other races having more efficient units in the endgame. But everyone saying it is a one-click kill spell fucking over positioning most of the time is right and that is really not cool design. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3487 Posts
Parasitic Bomb is a very needed spell on the Zerg side though, but I did quite like where Vipers were in HotS and have nothing against Abduct. I think what will ultimately end up happening, is something along the lines of: Abduct gets removed from Viper and the pissing ability gets removed from the Corruptor and Abduct gets put on Corruptor in either the same or weaker fashion. | ||
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ALAMOSS
3 Posts
-Big J Your thinking is not bad but you both need to learn more about physics. Very nice explanation of Newton's Laws here: | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On May 06 2015 01:05 ejozl wrote: I mean there's just no way that the Viper will keep having 4 spells, it goes against every spell caster we've had beforehand. Parasitic Bomb is a very needed spell on the Zerg side though, but I did quite like where Vipers were in HotS and have nothing against Abduct. I think what will ultimately end up happening, is something along the lines of: Abduct gets removed from Viper and the pissing ability gets removed from the Corruptor and Abduct gets put on Corruptor in either the same or weaker fashion. The Viper has not 4 spells. Spells drain energy and have an effect. It has 3 spells and a mechanic to recover energy. The Sentry also has 3 spells and a mechanic (basic attack). The infestor also has 3 spells and a mechanic (burrow) The Ghost has 2 spells, 1 energybased mechanic (cloak) and a mechanic (basic attack) It's not that rare. I think Abduct is too good in Corruptor. But it could be very interesting to test, at least with owned units. But the strength of a corruptor as AA + Abduct would completely break any air strategies except Viking ones since they can move at almost the same speed than corruptors but have more range. In any other case, an attacking unit would get in range of the Corruptor normal range (which is quite short) but they could simply rapidfire Abduct and get every air unit in. On May 06 2015 00:57 Big J wrote: Abduct only got introduced because Corruptors never cut it against Colossi and because blizzard rightfully wanted to get rid of rush-to-Broodlord-or-die-trying ZvP. With the Colossus nerf, there is little reason for it to exist. I do think it is not the worst spell in the book, because it makes for an interesting balance that makes massing these capital units kind of bad (you pull them one-by-one). It makes Zerg robust against other races having more efficient units in the endgame. But everyone saying it is a one-click kill spell fucking over positioning most of the time is right and that is really not cool design. I'm 100% with you. Considering the Colossus Nerf and the new approach to the SH, Neural Parasite range buff, Lurker range, the AA mechanic of Viper (which completely shuts down the Voidray/Colossus Deathball combo)... Zerg has more than enough counter mechanisms to that. It is fun as a mechanic, but cuts absolutely the utility of some capital units. Again, that's not a bad spell at all, but it might need tweaks, specially considering that cases. And bringing it back to ZvZ would be a ton of fun | ||
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Agh
United States1043 Posts
On May 05 2015 23:45 ALAMOSS wrote: Hi every one. This might not be the right place for my comment but there it is. I think there is a big issue with the Viper. It's a great unit but very unbalanced. Abduct ability NEEDS modification. It is not normal and PHYSICALLY IMPOSIBLE for a unit like the viper to pull back a massive unit like a Mothership, a Battlecruiser or even a thor or an ultralisk... Plus the fact that abducting so easily a Unique Unit like the Mothership is Unba for Protoss. I think that one solution would be to change the size/price/speed of the Viper to make it a massive Unit that can abduct other massive units, or it can be an upgrade for normal Vipers that would make them massive. Another solution would be to change the abduct ability. Very simple, to abduct a massive Unit you would need several Vipers... But m-m-m-m-uh mutas, they're flapping their wings i-i-in SPACE. It doesn't make sense! dk pls fix. Patch 3.2 notes: + Show Spoiler + Mutas can no longer fly, and instead gain a new ability SPLASH. But it's not very effective... | ||
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ALAMOSS
3 Posts
But m-m-m-m-uh mutas, they're flapping their wings i-i-in SPACE. It doesn't make sense! dk pls fix. Patch 3.2 notes: + Show Spoiler + I agree  Never told that everything in starcraft was logical. Just told that somethings are obviously wrong. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3487 Posts
On May 06 2015 01:24 JCoto wrote: The Viper has not 4 spells. Spells drain energy and have an effect. It has 3 spells and a mechanic to recover energy. The Sentry also has 3 spells and a mechanic (basic attack). The infestor also has 3 spells and a mechanic (burrow) The Ghost has 2 spells, 1 energybased mechanic (cloak) and a mechanic (basic attack) It's not that rare. I disagree. HT's have Feedback, Storm and Archon (Special, but counts as a spell.) Defilers(BW) have Consume (Sacrifices a unit for energy, very similar to Consume on Viper,) Plague and Dark Swarm. Infestor have Burrow because it's a ground based Zerg unit, I don't think being able to attack means anything. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Blink, charge, stim doesnt count as spells, they count as abilities. Dont know the criteria for them100% but they are very different. | ||
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Jwrath
6 Posts
Broodlords need to be changed. Faster with less damage and range? Maybe some kind of broodling tweak like the carriers, so that you can spawn a wave of broodlings on the ground where you want them? Infestors are also just too weak. Fungal growth is only really good for holding things in place but the damage is a JOKE. to kill anything that isn't banelings or marines, you need to land at least 5 fungals in a row and odds are fairly good you'll wind up taking tank/colossus/anything fire while trying to chain and you lose more money in the infestors than the clump of units you kill, unless you get the ridiculous 20 raven fungal or something - which relies on your opponent messing up way more than it relies on your skill. Fungal damage increase but a slightly slower projectile? There's gotta be some wiggle room. So many pro games ive seen have the zerg land HUGE fungals on the entire army, and the other player just stands in the fungal and tanks the damage and still wins the fight because the 5.25 damage a second is negligible except on VERY low health units. Infested terrans are quite weak. They were absolutely too strong, and fungal was absolutely too strong in WoL. How about some minor tweaks, such as infested terrans get carapace upgrades but not attack upgrades so they can tank a little extra? they still die brutally to splash but you could at least use them to tank up a few extra shots instead of just evaporating immediately. Brood lords are just plain boring. Zerg just needs some way to scale better into the late game. In HotS we are stuck on midgame tech the entire time. How about some extreme late game upgrades? Like a hive tech hydra buff for +20 health to make them slightly less fragile, like combat shields. 2 stimmed marines with equal upgrades already outdps a single hydra (depending on upgrades of course), plus marines can stim and move wayyyyyyyyy faster than a hydra and they can be healed + picked up when in danger. So far i am stoked as is humanly possible for LotV, just a few more things need reconsidering. Carriers and battlecruisers got a quite significant buff in LotV, how about some love for brood lords too? I agree, mass infestor should never be viable - it was disgusting spawning an entire army with upgrades wherever you needed it in WoL, but the pendulum has swung the other way and now infestors are fairly laughable. They definitely have their uses still, i'm not saying they don't. Just a thought. | ||
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