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Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
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Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
Patch 11.6: Live on Mar. 17, 2021
Team Fight Tactics Patch 11.6 Live on Mar. 17, 2021
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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How does everyone feel about Riot promoting alternate build paths for champs already struggling?
Not sure how AP Xin, even if strong, matches the Xin fantasy. At the very least, AP Twitch (despite how annoying it is), is rather similar to the AD Twitch playstyle.
Also, in ARAM news. Akali CONTINUES to get buffed what the fuck.
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On March 18 2021 08:15 AdsMoFro wrote:
How does everyone feel about Riot promoting alternate build paths for champs already struggling?
Not sure how AP Xin, even if strong, matches the Xin fantasy. At the very least, AP Twitch (despite how annoying it is), is rather similar to the AD Twitch playstyle.
Also, in ARAM news. Akali CONTINUES to get buffed what the fuck.
I'm gonna have to agree with Meteos on this. Why the fuck is Riot caring about buffing an AP build for Xin, when his intended AD build sucks ass? How about to make him not shit at what he's *supposed* to be doing before worrying about PoE wannabes?
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Honestly I just think its stupid that Riot proposed THEIR unique ideas but god forbid the community comes up with something on their own. This exact same patch they're buffing Pyke because they forced him out of mid lane. So AP Xin, their own idea, good to go. Pyke flexing, an idea they didn't come up with FUCK NO.
Pick a lane, either allow unique builds/positions to flourish or don't. Don't be so arrogant that the only off meta solutions must be your own
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I agree with what Chipmonklord said except that I think this should also apply to Soraka solo lane, and the community begged Riot to remove her
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Also, in ARAM news. Akali CONTINUES to get buffed what the fuck.
I loved the Reddit discussion on it, a lot of people defending Riot's decision making here. Food for thought: If a champ can get such massive buffs and still has a 43% winrate, does that not either imply the champion is always going to be garbage on ARAM, or that the current meta picks are good against her, regardless of stats? I've been picking Akali whenever I see her to try and figure out what is wrong with the champ, and I think it's the latter.
- Sucks vs proper poke+disengage comps because she can't get into range.
- Assassins generally suck vs stacked Moonstone + Exhaust comps. I had an Akali game where me and Zed jumped on Ezreal, who killed us both and came out with full health. Zed had Serpent Fang and we both had GW, but Yuumi + Karma with Moonstone and Exhaust turns anyone into a 5k tank. Unlike SR, it is not uncommon to play vs double Exhaust
- Sucks vs high/instant CC comps. Especially true if you are the only melee on your team and get focused.
- People don't know how to play her: bad builds, bad masteries (blind picking Conqueror is risky), bad playstyle. She is a hard champion, most people on SR suck at her too.
Imo, Riot needs to remove Moonstone and start balancing the game mode based on that.
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If you're playing Akali in aram, on this patch, and you think she's bad, idk how to save your soul.
The buff she got regularly was already really good for aram and then she got a % buff on the literal same patch, genius.
- Sucks vs proper poke+disengage comps because she can't get into range.
This is every melee. Only Akali has her own mobility so it's actually less applicable to her.
- Assassins generally suck vs stacked Moonstone + Exhaust comps. I had an Akali game where me and Zed jumped on Ezreal, who killed us both and came out with full health. Zed had Serpent Fang and we both had GW, but Yuumi + Karma with Moonstone and Exhaust turns anyone into a 5k tank. Unlike SR, it is not uncommon to play vs double Exhaust
Nothing in the game beats two (or more) supports, esp. if they both have exhaust. Doesn't have anything to do with Akali either.
btw zed with eclipse+ravenous easily outheals ez's solo damage so he probably built wrong.
- Sucks vs high/instant CC comps. Especially true if you are the only melee on your team and get focused.
If your only melee is an assassin you've already lost. Unless you have 3 supports I guess, the only 'comp' strong enough to not need a frontline.
- People don't know how to play her: bad builds, bad masteries (blind picking Conqueror is risky), bad playstyle. She is a hard champion, most people on SR suck at her too.
not knowing how to play her might still be true but she's broken enough that this should balance out soon enough.
As for builds I've seen her clean house with a titanic hydra rush. +20%-20% is one hell of a drug. I wouldn't be surprised if people started building her tanky (with maybe a riftmaker still as mythic) since you still deal tons of damage and you can just choose to be unkillable on top.
on the side, her winrate in EUW actually shows at ~55% atm, which is actually insane for an assassin. And I expect it to go up more as people learn and adjust builds.
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Why does Riot allow you to level Zilean W level 1? Am I missing something? I swear Riot usually locks you into an ability you need (Yuumi) or locks you out of abilities you can't use (Azir I think, its been a hot minute) at level 1. Does it have a passive I forgot about? I've been playing a bit of Zilean support and I never put together how odd it is that Riot lets you take a completely worthless ability
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It’s been locked for years if it’s not now it’s a bug in this patch. I just checked in my game and I have the same thing but I’m not sure when it started because I just Started playing for the first time this season. I tried googling it and it seems to be a reoccurring problem, which is weird.
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I was only trying to list possible reasons why she had a low winrate, and wrote that post it before patch 11.6 had a meaningful sample size. But ngl, didn't expect her winrate to jump like that, the last few times I looked at her she had bottom 5 winrate on ARAM, only giga garbage like Nunu and Rammus were lower.
Most of my points can be applied generally to melee champs on ARAM, yes. ADC + supports dominate the top winrate list, melee exceptions like Akali, Kled, Camille, Leona, Trundle, Orrn are all either very mobile or have S tier CC.
The buff she got regularly was already really good for aram and then she got a % buff on the literal same patch, genius.
The same thing happened with Eve, and she still has her crazy buffs, which is terrifying vs someone who understands she can flash ult someone for half health. If you filter to only look at the games of top 20% (Plat) players, you can see how messed up buff/nerfs are for those people.
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Is it just me or is Everfrost just completely broken? I've been playing mid for over a week and I honestly dont think there's a champion I dont want it on. Having hard CC (potential AoE and damage!) feels so much stronger than just the extra damage from things like Ludens. Add the by far best build path, way base stats and it just feels like a no-brainer on everyone. Heck, I'd even consider it on Rumble and Mordekaiser.
On March 21 2021 02:14 DarkCore wrote:
I was only trying to list possible reasons why she had a low winrate, and wrote that post it before patch 11.6 had a meaningful sample size. But ngl, didn't expect her winrate to jump like that, the last few times I looked at her she had bottom 5 winrate on ARAM, only giga garbage like Nunu and Rammus were lower.
Akali had/has a low winrate because people played and build her as you would on SR. With her insane buff you can build her quite bulky and she will still oneshot people. The ARAM specific buffs dramatically change how you play and build certain champions which a lot of people outside high MMR ignore.
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On March 23 2021 07:27 Jek wrote:Is it just me or is Everfrost just completely broken? I've been playing mid for over a week and I honestly dont think there's a champion I dont want it on. Having hard CC (potential AoE and damage!) feels so much stronger than just the extra damage from things like Ludens. Add the by far best build path, way base stats and it just feels like a no-brainer on everyone. Heck, I'd even consider it on Rumble and Mordekaiser. Show nested quote +On March 21 2021 02:14 DarkCore wrote:
I was only trying to list possible reasons why she had a low winrate, and wrote that post it before patch 11.6 had a meaningful sample size. But ngl, didn't expect her winrate to jump like that, the last few times I looked at her she had bottom 5 winrate on ARAM, only giga garbage like Nunu and Rammus were lower.
Akali had/has a low winrate because people played and build her as you would on SR. With her insane buff you can build her quite bulky and she will still oneshot people. The ARAM specific buffs dramatically change how you play and build certain champions which a lot of people outside high MMR ignore.
yeah everfrost is stacked with stats atm. doesnt make sense that it has the same ap/mana/haste/cost as the others. imo they should lower the ap by 10 or maybe lower the mana. i hope they dont get rid of the hp
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The root integrates very well into a lot of champion combos. Ex: You're inside Veigar E, and he roots you for a guaranteed W: Fizz can root people while on his troll pole, fun to catch people off guard. If Cho hits a Q, he can get his full combo off without counterplay if you have no tenacity (usually the time for him to waddle towards you and silence is enough to flash away). I think the root would be balanced if the animation were a bit slower, and if the CD were doubled.
On March 23 2021 07:27 Jek wrote:Is it just me or is Everfrost just completely broken? I've been playing mid for over a week and I honestly dont think there's a champion I dont want it on. Having hard CC (potential AoE and damage!) feels so much stronger than just the extra damage from things like Ludens. Add the by far best build path, way base stats and it just feels like a no-brainer on everyone. Heck, I'd even consider it on Rumble and Mordekaiser. Show nested quote +On March 21 2021 02:14 DarkCore wrote:
I was only trying to list possible reasons why she had a low winrate, and wrote that post it before patch 11.6 had a meaningful sample size. But ngl, didn't expect her winrate to jump like that, the last few times I looked at her she had bottom 5 winrate on ARAM, only giga garbage like Nunu and Rammus were lower.
Akali had/has a low winrate because people played and build her as you would on SR. With her insane buff you can build her quite bulky and she will still oneshot people. The ARAM specific buffs dramatically change how you play and build certain champions which a lot of people outside high MMR ignore.
Very true, she's a champion that really needs to think her build through on ARAM (People pick Riftmaker/Night Harvester without considering the enemy team, and a lot of people refuse to buy Zhonyas). Also, I just checked and apparently the most common EUW ARAM keystone is Electrocute, lol. And only 50% of players pick PoM on her, pretty disturbing.
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Ah. Speak of the devil, Everfrost is getting nerfed. From patch preview:
Damage: 125 + 35% AP -> 100 + 30% AP
Cooldown: 20 -> 30
I dont think it touch on what the core issue is IMO. Some champions are just not meant to have instanous hard CC easily available. The health combined with it's CC make it so much harder to be ganked too. While I dont play him Cho'Gath as mentioned by DarkCore is a good example. 30s is still a short cooldown on such a strong active item, with Ravenous Hunter being such heavily nerfed and me loving Hourglass I usually take Igneous Hunter anyway which IMO is also a lowkey broken mastery simply for working on Trinkets.
Dont know if the damage nerf is to break a threshold where you can/could use it to full wave clear on a single rotation. The item is just perfectly well-rounded IMO. Insane base stats, a buildpath that basically mean you will never have an awkward back, allow you to build early health probably the strongest stat in early game and it's mythic passive is actually pretty decent too.
I know there'll always be a technically 'best' item but it just feels a bit too 'best' if that makes sense.
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I think the item will still be strong even after that nerf. Nobody cares about the damage, it's nice that they nerfed the early burst, but the root is still the same. The wave clear part is still there too, why not nerf it to do only 50% dmg to minions?
Lots of Mythic actives synergize really well with certain champ kits (besides being high utility themselves), Riot is going to spend forever trying to adjust them so multiple items are viable. Can't wait to see everyone at Worlds build the same items every single game.
Lots of Mythic items are high utility and not about damage (despite looking like it at first glance). I don't think Riot will ever be able to make them all viable, there will always be a 'best' because one of them will have the best utility and thus define the meta. Like Goredrinker outclassing the other bruiser items, and then Stridebreaker replacing it immediately after. Start of the season Liandries was busted, and then as soon as Everfrost got a buff it dominates the entire mid lane.
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I agree with you guys nobody gives a shit about the damage lol nice job riot balance team 
I don't personally think everfrost is as broken as stridebreaker because I can at least make a case for buffed Luden's on some champions, Stridebreaker makes the other bruiser mythics feel like trash.
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A lot of Luden champs are buying Everfrost because the root is just too good, if they really need the MS they go Phase Rush, like Ryze for example. Hence why I'm surprised Riot didn't try to adjust that aspect of the item.
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Luden's is used for stacking mpen (at least in the instance of Fizz)
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I just played against a twitch support, and while he did run it the fuck down he did eventually complete Everfrost. That shit is ridiculous, he could from stealth pop out and slow me with zero counter-play except hope he was in range of a pink. I imagine in the hands of someone not garbage Everfrost Shaco/twitch could be rather good now that Riot gave AP twitch its weird stamp of kind of approval
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Twitch support feels like playing with a Kayle to me. it's just a black hole of negative tempo then he hits 3(mayybe 2) item spike and the enemy team has to handhold everywhere they go.
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EPT
