[Patch 10.23] Preseason Item Update Bonanza - Page 4

DarkCore

Germany4194 Posts

November 15 2020 16:08 GMT

#61

There is a thin bar near the top of the item catalogue that you can hover over to find recommended items for every role (it defaults to one of them based on your champ), and one option is to list every item in the game. From my understanding, you have to click it open every game, it doesn't remember between games.

cLutZ

United States19574 Posts

November 15 2020 19:29 GMT

#62

On November 14 2020 17:28 evilfatsh1t wrote:

Show nested quote +

i agree with this statement. herald imo is the biggest offender. the snowball you get from chunking half a tower and getting gold is too oppressive. maybe they should let you do dmg to herald from the front once you cast him, because solo laners literally cant do anything but watch.

Elemental dragons, rift herald, and elder were all solutions to problems that never existed.

DarkCore

Germany4194 Posts

November 16 2020 09:30 GMT

#63

So I played Kog in an ARAM game vs a solid tank lineup (Ali Aatrox). I went 20/5 but it felt like I did no real damage to their tanks going Kraken->Guinsoo->BotRK. I check item numbers end of the game, and I see Kraken Slayer did 5000 true damage in 20 minutes, of my 44k total damage. That feels absurdly low, especially considering there were fights where I was raining hell with 3.5 AS on everyone for a good 10 seconds. Kraken passive scales off of bonus AD, but Guinsoo lets you proc it more so imo it should even out. Not sure if the item is actually doing what it's supposed to.

Uldridge

Belgium5231 Posts

November 16 2020 10:28 GMT

#64

That's around 11% of your damage. If we ignore pre kraken damage (which shouldn't have been that high anyway), what does its passive say it does? It's flat damage based on level plus an extra based on bonus AD right?
Guinsoo is every 3rd attack you hit twice?

Anyone proficient in math know how to tackle this specifically?

DarkCore

Germany4194 Posts

November 16 2020 11:14 GMT

#65

That's the thing though, I was under the impression that a champ like Kog would be able to proc it like crazy and do lots of damage, since Guinsoo's, Lethal Tempo and Kog Q mean crazy AS and procs every 2 AA. But if it only does 10% of my damage as Kog, how useful is it for anyone who a) doesn't build Guinsoo, and b) doesn't scale as well as Kog. It doesn't seem to be doing what it's supposed to, namely killing tanks.

Some simple maths: If Kraken Slayer does 100 dmg every 3 AA, but Guinsoo lets it proc every 2 AA, then at 6 AA the damage would be 200 vs 300, i.e. 300/200 = 50% damage increase due to Guinsoo. Ofc, this ignores the fact that a normal AD item would increase the damage from Kraken Slayer, unlike Guinsoo which has no AD, but I don't think any single item would give you that kind of damage increase (maybe IE? Which is a pretty rubbish 2nd/3rd item to buy atm).

Jek

Denmark2771 Posts

November 16 2020 12:36 GMT

#66

Kraken Slayer isn't an on hit effect so it doesn't benefit from Rageblade. After a few more games I honestly think ALL the "adc" mythics are complete trash and unless you can dip into the other classes' mythics (adcs like Senna/Jhin) or are an on-hit champion where Rageblade is effectively your "mythic" it feels like the champ choice is borderline griefing. :S

DarkCore

Germany4194 Posts

November 16 2020 13:52 GMT

#67

Wait, you're right. How did I not notice that during the game lol.

Since that's the case, I'm kind of confused why people would buy Kraken Slayer on Kog in the first place. The Mythic AS bonus is nice, but Kog goes over 2.5 AS without it, if you can fully exploit 3.5 AS then you've already won the game. And looking closer at op.gg (which is what I used to determine his build), I can see that Shieldbow or Guinsoo first are significantly higher winrates than Kraken Slayer first item.

Galeforce is a dumb item, it scales poorly and doesn't help you in 3/4 bad situations. After seeing it in so many games, Kraken Slayer seems undertuned, the true damage and Mythic bonus only really come online with full build. Shieldbow is hit or miss: I've had games where it saved me with the insane LS and shield, and games where it feel like it does much. The fact it can be combined with Bloodthirster makes the combo stupid on champs like Draven or Samira.

Bulgaria4180 Posts

November 17 2020 09:05 GMT

#68

Why Morgana shielded champions can use the blast cons to jump over cliffs, but Olaf in R - can't? Shouln''t they be treated similarly ?

Uldridge

Belgium5231 Posts

November 17 2020 09:12 GMT

#69

Perhaps its physical cc? Like how Camille can acquire an ad shield and a magic shield, Morgana only protect vs magic type? I dont know if theyd code it that way or if thats a thing though, but it's one of the only explanations I could think of.

Edit: welp is says "all disables" in the description of black shield so beats me.

DarkCore

Germany4194 Posts

November 17 2020 09:20 GMT

#70

Why would blast cone be coded as physical/magical and interact differently with various spell shields/immunities. The complexity of modern LoL cc gives me a headache sometimes.

evilfatsh1t

Australia8928 Posts

November 17 2020 09:21 GMT

#71

On November 17 2020 18:05 M2 wrote:
Why Morgana shielded champions can use the blast cons to jump over cliffs, but Olaf in R - can't? Shouln''t they be treated similarly ?

because olaf is unstoppable

Bulgaria4180 Posts

November 17 2020 09:33 GMT

#72

On November 17 2020 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:

Show nested quote +

because olaf is unstoppable

I am yet to see a Morgana shielded champion being stopped before it expires but ok, I would accept the explanation :-))))))

DarkCore

Germany4194 Posts

November 17 2020 09:52 GMT

#73

I doubt 99.9% of players can tell you the exact difference between a Morgana spell shield and an Olaf ult in terms of crowd control interaction. Morgana shield blocks all crowd control, so it would make sense if it blocked blast cone. If blast cone isn't considered crowd control, then what exactly is it?

Here's an in depth explanation of cc. Importantly, Morgana and Olaf are both in the total immunity category, except Morgana shield does not resist self/allied crowd control. I would not consider blast cone allied crowd control, only difference I can see between the two abilities.

Also, there's this bs line:

It is important to note that total immunity and displacement immunity are not distinguished by the in-game user interface to display statuses relating to crowd control above the health bar. Both read "Unstoppable" which merely only indicates the unit is immune to crowd control in some form. It should not be confused as being the same effect.

So unstoppable isn't actually a status effect, it is merely a description of two forms of immunity.

Jek

Denmark2771 Posts

November 17 2020 11:39 GMT

#74

I'm almost 100% Black Shield doesn't stop allied CC (Bard ult, Kench Devour and Zigg's W) so I would assume it's coded to only work vs enemy CC and plants are being counted as neutral or allied to the user's team. Make sense they made the choice deliberately originally when Zigg's was released.

Uldridge

Belgium5231 Posts

November 17 2020 14:06 GMT

#75

Another fun little question. Does Bard ult freeze skill channels or durations in time? Or does it cancel everything while putting everyone in 'stasis'?
If it cancels everything it's not really a stasis, but a stun really, no?

DarkCore

Germany4194 Posts

November 17 2020 14:53 GMT

#76

Well, my link does identify stasis and stuns as two different forms of crowd control. Stasis makes you untargetable and invulnerable, but you're right it does behave sort of like a stun. During stasis, negative effects don't get applied, but still run during the duration (so you can use stasis to dodge ignite damage). You can still heal with Vlad ult during Zhonya's (and I assume during Bard ult too), so some things do get through stasis.

My weirdest discovery from going down this rabbit hold: You can't cleanse stasis, but it can be removed by death. If you read the Execute description, it explicitly states that Execute doesn't work on invulnerable champions. But people have reported dying to Bard ults with The Collector. Is this a bug, or working as intended? Does Bard ult do no damage, or 0 damage (the distinction is important) before the stasis effect? Do you go into stasis before or after damage calculation?

You can't use items during stasis, and cannot cleanse it. But did you know you can use QSS during Bard ult, it just doesn't do anything except go on a 3 second CD?

The more I read, the more I realize how strangely inconsistent cc is in this game.

Jek

Denmark2771 Posts

November 17 2020 15:11 GMT

#77

I've seen a Bard ult on a Lucian he still kept going pewpewpewpewpewpew. So I suppose it doesn't stop channels?

DarkCore

Germany4194 Posts

November 17 2020 16:42 GMT

#78

Wiki explicitly states stasis stops channels, and Lucian ult is a channel, so that would imply it should be cancelled. So what you saw is either a bug or Riot spaghetti carbonara.

Jek

Denmark2771 Posts

November 17 2020 18:14 GMT

#79

Found a clip of someone doing it on YouTube:

DarkCore

Germany4194 Posts

November 17 2020 18:40 GMT

#80

Interesting, video is a year old though so maybe it's fixed? Like I said, the descriptions of stasis and Lucian ult would suggest that shouldn't be possible, although there are notable exceptions: wiki says Lucian also can ult while inside Tahm, but I haven't seen that once in my life. So many niche interactions in this game...

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