EPT2017 Esports General Discussion - Page 33
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9299 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
The cynic in me would also point out that this is perfectly timed. Massive increase in viewership right as all the new investors come in. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On September 30 2017 06:42 geript wrote: Far and away I prefer Bo2. You don't have 3 hour matches plus teams don't have side advantage by getting blue/red twice. Bo2 is where it's at, I agree. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
I also think bo1 is crap, if you watch one team then it means you could potentially see them as short as 20 minutes. Cheese is also rewarded very well, but punished just as extreme. But at the same time because there are so many games, you end up with teams being quite spread out in the table, and it becomes quite hard to catch up. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On September 30 2017 06:09 GrandInquisitor wrote: The pros apparently want Bo1. If they don't think Bo3 is worth it, then what's the point of Bo3? League pros are so weird. They supposedly practice 24/7 yet play so few actual games a year it's insane. Team Liquid played roughly 29 games at TI7 while EF played 36 the whole year. It's freaking insane how little league pros actually play unless they in teams like TSM who reach finals in playoffs constantly. So they practicing so much for what payoff? Why they want even fewer games is beyond me. edit: I miscounted! Actually had 41 games this split and 43 previous split so 84 games in the year. New schedule would have them playing 36 the year. Definitely think Bo2 is the way and just having more stuff outside of the league. More stuff for teams that aren't the every top too. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On September 30 2017 07:04 Numy wrote: League pros are so weird. They supposedly practice 24/7 yet play so few actual games a year it's insane. Team Liquid played roughly 29 games at TI7 while EF played 36 the whole year. It's freaking insane how little league pros actually play unless they in teams like TSM who reach finals in playoffs constantly. So they practicing so much for what payoff? Why they want even fewer games is beyond me. edit: I miscounted! Actually had 41 games this split and 43 previous split so 84 games in the year. New schedule would have them playing 36 the year. Definitely think Bo2 is the way and just having more stuff outside of the league. More stuff for teams that aren't the every top too. They, at the very least, want to get rid of multiple streams. With viewership affecting the teams' individual cut of the pie, teams not having to play opposite stream of TSM or the like is pretty big for smaller orgs. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On September 30 2017 07:04 Numy wrote: League pros are so weird. They supposedly practice 24/7 yet play so few actual games a year it's insane. Team Liquid played roughly 29 games at TI7 while EF played 36 the whole year. It's freaking insane how little league pros actually play unless they in teams like TSM who reach finals in playoffs constantly. So they practicing so much for what payoff? Why they want even fewer games is beyond me. edit: I miscounted! Actually had 41 games this split and 43 previous split so 84 games in the year. New schedule would have them playing 36 the year. Definitely think Bo2 is the way and just having more stuff outside of the league. More stuff for teams that aren't the every top too. well there is a reason Korea completely dominates League | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Did playing a million Bo3s and training like Koreans help TSM last year? Nope, they still didn't make it out of groups. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
IMO, if they want more people watching regular season games, make it a 4 person playoff (or go to the Korea format), that way it means something. I mean, I think if you swapped SKT and LZ's regular season rankings the final result might have been different, but TSM still would have won from the 6 slot. Its kinda like the NBA where everyone good makes it, but also, not like the NBA because midseason games are kinda irrelevant because they have a different ruleset. How much hype would Cavs-Warriors on Christmas lose if we knew the 3-Pt line and hancheck rules would be changed twice before the playoffs? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On September 30 2017 15:29 cLutZ wrote: I don't think the format is the reason for the ratings drop, aside from it just being too long to sustain good ratings for that long. Really, I just don't think there is much appointment TV in the LCS because almost no good teams miss the playoffs, and also no team that "barely" makes the playoffs really ever has competed for the title. IMO, if they want more people watching regular season games, make it a 4 person playoff (or go to the Korea format), that way it means something. I mean, I think if you swapped SKT and LZ's regular season rankings the final result might have been different, but TSM still would have won from the 6 slot. Its kinda like the NBA where everyone good makes it, but also, not like the NBA because midseason games are kinda irrelevant because they have a different ruleset. How much hype would Cavs-Warriors on Christmas lose if we knew the 3-Pt line and hancheck rules would be changed twice before the playoffs? Apparently Riot was tracking it, and tons of people that watch LCS were only watching around 1.5 games of a bo3, making them untennable for the audience. Not to mention people that wanted to watch everything had up to double the amount of games from a certain day suddenly couldn't unless they made a significant effort due to teh increased time in doing so. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On September 30 2017 14:39 AdsMoFro wrote: Bo1 is a great idea. Want a league format? Bo1 is the best way to have a league format. Only way Bo3s could be feasible is if you played it the way OGN had it. TOurnament format. Even Bo3 in Korea isn't all that great, but at least there's a culture developed behind it, and teams, in general, are better. Did playing a million Bo3s and training like Koreans help TSM last year? Nope, they still didn't make it out of groups. The best performances for Western teams - 2nd at MSI, 2x semifinalists at Worlds - were from the Bo1 LCS. This massive circlejerk over Bo3 being the One True Path to Being Good is way overblown. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On September 30 2017 14:39 AdsMoFro wrote: Bo1 is a great idea. Want a league format? Bo1 is the best way to have a league format. Only way Bo3s could be feasible is if you played it the way OGN had it. TOurnament format. Even Bo3 in Korea isn't all that great, but at least there's a culture developed behind it, and teams, in general, are better. Did playing a million Bo3s and training like Koreans help TSM last year? Nope, they still didn't make it out of groups. No Bo2 is the best way to have a league format, it more accurately represents the strength of teams and eliminates side difference/patch inconsistencies. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Kaneh
Canada737 Posts
It feels like reddit circlejerking with no basis. and the people who are actually qualified to make this assesment (players and teams) have indicated the opposite. like what do you gain from bo3? this fabled "experience"? IMO players have said you get more from scrim blocks and adjustments that way - they play bo5 or more during blocks. The biggest thing is stage experience, but honestly its not that big a thing and waaaay less impactful than losing an entire day to a fiesta bo3 taking 3-4 hours. Like a league system will get you the top teams every time. will a team maybe edge into the playoffs when they might be weaker? maybe but we're talking about the 6-7 place teams and the playoffs will ultimately determine who's the best that season and going to msi/worlds anyways. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9299 Posts
like what do you gain from bo3? this fabled "experience"? IMO players have said you get more from scrim blocks and adjustments that way - they play bo5 or more during blocks. Why would the viewers care about what happens during the scrims? | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 01 2017 04:33 Kaneh wrote: I dont' understand why everyone is jerking themselves over "bo3 is more competitive" when the players and teams through the association have stated that the advantages of bo1 outwiegh the advantages of bo3. It feels like reddit circlejerking with no basis. and the people who are actually qualified to make this assesment (players and teams) have indicated the opposite. like what do you gain from bo3? this fabled "experience"? IMO players have said you get more from scrim blocks and adjustments that way - they play bo5 or more during blocks. The biggest thing is stage experience, but honestly its not that big a thing and waaaay less impactful than losing an entire day to a fiesta bo3 taking 3-4 hours. Like a league system will get you the top teams every time. will a team maybe edge into the playoffs when they might be weaker? maybe but we're talking about the 6-7 place teams and the playoffs will ultimately determine who's the best that season and going to msi/worlds anyways. Its probably the sitting around and uncertain start times that they don't like most of all. That is one of the things I hated most about wrestling meets, you would be in a loud stadium/gym for hours waiting for your match to be called. I think you could fix that with set start times + multiple stream + studio shows for filler just like they do for worlds (and every other esports tournament does), but that is kind of against the LCS model which is about slashing costs and creating an illusion of equality between teams. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On October 01 2017 04:33 Kaneh wrote: I dont' understand why everyone is jerking themselves over "bo3 is more competitive" when the players and teams through the association have stated that the advantages of bo1 outwiegh the advantages of bo3. It feels like reddit circlejerking with no basis. and the people who are actually qualified to make this assesment (players and teams) have indicated the opposite. like what do you gain from bo3? this fabled "experience"? IMO players have said you get more from scrim blocks and adjustments that way - they play bo5 or more during blocks. The biggest thing is stage experience, but honestly its not that big a thing and waaaay less impactful than losing an entire day to a fiesta bo3 taking 3-4 hours. Like a league system will get you the top teams every time. will a team maybe edge into the playoffs when they might be weaker? maybe but we're talking about the 6-7 place teams and the playoffs will ultimately determine who's the best that season and going to msi/worlds anyways. The best part are the people talking about how western teams got so much better thanks to Bo3 meanwhile the best western performances ever internationally (CLG 2nd at MSI, EU 2x semifinalists) all came from Bo1 LCS | ||
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