• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:07
CEST 15:07
KST 22:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down12ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League55Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Do we even care about balance? BW General Discussion Mineral gathering rate (boosted) for each patch Rollback Netcode in Brood War Bot on ladder
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [ASL22] Grand Finals [BSL23] RO24 Group Stage
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion!
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10571 users

[Patch 6.24] Camille General Discussion - Page 3

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 18 19 20 Next All
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
December 09 2016 05:11 GMT
#41
On December 09 2016 12:56 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2016 11:18 Jek wrote:
I dont understand why they dont buff the other junglers up to par with Lee instead of nerfing him, he seems like the perfect baseline jungler.

Because that would only make too much sense and allow jungle to be a strong position. Whenever jungle is strong, every non jungler complains.

Because fog of war in LOL is very poorly done.

Outside of very specific scenarios (see Challenger and pro games) its pseudo-educated guessing as to whether you can avoid a gank and its also RNG whether a gank on your lane is punished elsewhere. Much too frustrating for a game like LOL which really is a game where laning has a very high importance. Lots of RNG in an important aspect of your game is bad, even if its not real RNG, just perceived RNG to your players.
Freeeeeeedom
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
December 09 2016 05:38 GMT
#42
On December 09 2016 14:11 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2016 12:56 Gahlo wrote:
On December 09 2016 11:18 Jek wrote:
I dont understand why they dont buff the other junglers up to par with Lee instead of nerfing him, he seems like the perfect baseline jungler.

Because that would only make too much sense and allow jungle to be a strong position. Whenever jungle is strong, every non jungler complains.

Because fog of war in LOL is very poorly done.

Outside of very specific scenarios (see Challenger and pro games) its pseudo-educated guessing as to whether you can avoid a gank and its also RNG whether a gank on your lane is punished elsewhere. Much too frustrating for a game like LOL which really is a game where laning has a very high importance. Lots of RNG in an important aspect of your game is bad, even if its not real RNG, just perceived RNG to your players.


I don't think it is an educated guess.

I mean, I guess it sort of becomes so because some junglers do retarded shit that doesn't make sense and only works because it doesn't make sense. But they get punished for it and lose if you are at an ELO where getting camped limits your ability to hard carry.

In general, junglers only gank at certain times, or when someone gets back to lane. I am an atrocious laner, but I almost always now before I get ganked.

I dunno, you hit certain times and you are pushed the jungler is likely there. You come back to lane for some reason at a certain point the jungler is probably there. The latter in particular (when a player just got back to lane) is when players seem to be really aggressive, but all good junglers look for that shit because it is free as hell. You know there is no ward, and you know they want to trade right when they get back. Better players realize how junglers think and don't get caught by it as often. Thats why so frequently in Challenger streams and high ELO people snuff out ganks without any vision at all. Even my bronze friends know to be scared at 3:15 if they pushed; part of being a better player is knowing when you need to be scared of a jungler.

There is a reason a guy like Faker or Impact can absorb so much jungle / mid pressure without losing anything. Because they are smart and can recognize it without complete information.

I understand how it can be perceived as random though, I guess.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
December 09 2016 13:27 GMT
#43
Not that I recommend it, but if you watch one of the more ragey non-pro players stream, you'll see why I think most people end up hating the jungler.
Freeeeeeedom
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
December 09 2016 15:35 GMT
#44
I understand the sentiment, but I think it is incorrect.

If anything, I think now that replays exist people will be able to recognize timings better. Might diminish thus sentiment.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-09 17:39:45
December 09 2016 17:39 GMT
#45
Maybe, but I doubt replays will affect anyone who didn't already know those things. Look, even when you know them the fun sometimes gets to you, like I did the other night, I was just going ham on the other top laner and 'knew better' but the obvious gank came and ruined my lead anyways. Totally knew it, but greed gets you. And I played lots of games that day, but really only remember that fuck up.
Freeeeeeedom
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
December 09 2016 20:42 GMT
#46
I mean, I do the same thing all the time. But usually in not mad at the jungler, they just collecting free kills, I'm mad at myself.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
December 09 2016 20:59 GMT
#47
On December 10 2016 05:42 iCanada wrote:
I mean, I do the same thing all the time. But usually in not mad at the jungler, they just collecting free kills, I'm mad at myself.

Yea, but its like cannon rush in SC2. You really don't want to zoom around with a probe or whatever, that's for the pros to worry about, not my gold-league 20 APM ass.
Freeeeeeedom
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
December 09 2016 21:35 GMT
#48
On December 10 2016 05:59 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2016 05:42 iCanada wrote:
I mean, I do the same thing all the time. But usually in not mad at the jungler, they just collecting free kills, I'm mad at myself.

Yea, but its like cannon rush in SC2. You really don't want to zoom around with a probe or whatever, that's for the pros to worry about, not my gold-league 20 APM ass.

Cheesy all-ins was how I could climb in SC2 and playing anti-cheese champions is how I climb in League. It takes a scumbag to know a scumbag I suppose.

Everyone should just be forced to play something like Rammus, Eve and Shaco for a day.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-09 23:55:22
December 09 2016 23:47 GMT
#49
On December 10 2016 05:59 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2016 05:42 iCanada wrote:
I mean, I do the same thing all the time. But usually in not mad at the jungler, they just collecting free kills, I'm mad at myself.

Yea, but its like cannon rush in SC2. You really don't want to zoom around with a probe or whatever, that's for the pros to worry about, not my gold-league 20 APM ass.


I think its more like being a zerg player trying to fast expand when the toss player is cannon rushing you. Your timings tight you can prevent it and shoulda know when / if its coming if you had decent scouting.

Falling for it and getting behind anything more than the time for the pylon to complete / losing to it is nothing but your own fault for executing poorly.

But maybe thats just me.

If anything I'd be mad that most of the junglers you play with aren't punishing me for derping. Makes me angry when I see real bad play and it wins.
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium5232 Posts
December 10 2016 01:11 GMT
#50
Yes. This is the most frustrating thing and at the same time the best thing about LoL. The teamplay.
In the grand scheme of things, you rise and fall with the support of the other people playing with you. And if they have no clue about what to do or how to punish decently, it makes me feel like I'm just wasting time. The most horrible types of game's I've played are the one's where the team just rolls over and dies because no decisive actions are being taken while the opposing team just steamrolls through objective after objective (without even being overly fed/farmed per se).
When it gells well, however, boy oh boy is it a treat to play with your team. You got everyone being on the same wavelengths and it's like the team is just air to you.
And then you have the best games of all: even games. Both teams are evenly matches and games are exciting and aren't going in any one's favour for a long time (or there's comebacks to even it up). In those games I don't really care if I win or lose and it's those games I yearn for. Sadly, it's only like 10% or less of the games played that are really even.
So the question then becomes: is the time invested worth it to play only 1/10 of the time truly enjoying it because it's actually challenging? If we're really generous we can incluse the games where you're all in sync with your team, so that's maximally 30, maybe 40% of the games played? Does it then become worth it? The more I play(ed) the game, the more I've been starting to ask myself that. The game is conceptually so compelling, though, that it keeps drawing me in, blinding me with this allure from the actual shit layered under it.
Or, you know, I should just git gud and clap my opponents every single game. Maybe the actual core game concept is the 1v9 and not 5v5. Just treat your team as enemies that can't kill you, but want to sabotage you.
Anyway, end of rant.
Taxes are for Terrans
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-10 03:40:15
December 10 2016 03:05 GMT
#51
hows fizz after rework? i read some on reddit and most mains complain hes trash now and super bad late game is that true ?
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-10 04:23:52
December 10 2016 04:01 GMT
#52
i wouldn't say he's trash but there are a lot of tanks being played at the moment and redemption/ locket combo. Point blank fish is actual dumpster juice so you either have to use fog or throw it full range and use the size to zone. Late game you you aren't killing anyone w/o getting the dot proc on your w ( where late game = both teams are late game) 2 seconds is a long time in league of legends, if it's a vayne or a Caitlin net crit crit or general vayne bullshit can just kill you. Also if ryze isn't banned I wouldn't recommend blind picking him, although that one isn't fizz exclusive.

In a tryhard sense where only the best possible picks are good he's bad but he's not useless, and right now with mmr not being settled a snowball champ can come in handy. I will say my opinion isn't that valuable ATM because I quit the game (mostly) from legion release till like two weeks ago but in case anyone else that plays him doesn't speak up, that was my impression of him after like 5 games rework week and 5 in the last two.

Personally I like kass ATM in situations where I previously would have picked fizz. (Except maybe zed but nobody is playing him)
Carrilord has arrived.
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-10 09:29:15
December 10 2016 08:50 GMT
#53
I got absolutely dumpstered by fizz as ahri today.

But I don't play mid.

Or ahri.

Holy shit that ult has a pretty nice range. Hitbox seems pretty fucking broken tho. I guess it's supposed to get a bigger hitbox the further it travels, but there's like no indicator showing the hitbox getting bigger so it looks disgusting when it somehow hits you.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
December 10 2016 11:11 GMT
#54
On December 10 2016 02:39 cLutZ wrote:
Maybe, but I doubt replays will affect anyone who didn't already know those things. Look, even when you know them the fun sometimes gets to you, like I did the other night, I was just going ham on the other top laner and 'knew better' but the obvious gank came and ruined my lead anyways. Totally knew it, but greed gets you. And I played lots of games that day, but really only remember that fuck up.

Pretty sure replays will have absolutely 0 effect on anything lol.

Also surviving ganks in pro play has absolutely nothing in common with solo/flex.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
December 10 2016 13:45 GMT
#55
Did they change the Matchmaking Algorithms when preseason ended? because my games have been really...different since the season started. I don't think i've had a game that wasn't completely one sided one way or the other yet. only 20 games in though.
General_Winter
Profile Joined February 2011
United States719 Posts
December 10 2016 16:14 GMT
#56
I do t know if they changed the algos, but the MMR reset should lead to more lop sided matches until people restyle into their natural MMRs. So for example if they had compressed the total range in half, then applying the same precisting algos would lead to games where the difference in skill between the median player in the game and the best and worst players was twice as much as usual.

I don't know exactly what the level of MMR compression in the soft reset was, but if it's significant (say 2 or more) that could be leading to lop sided games. I would expect that to be most significant around the middle of the MMR spectrum and probably be less of an issue in bronze. Challenges probably get lopsided games, but they would all be in the same direction.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-11 19:41:02
December 11 2016 19:40 GMT
#57
Sometimes I think Volibear is my favorite champion ever and then the enemy bot lane picks Janna / Vayne.

Fuck me.

(as an aside, also fuck all bot lanes dying 2v2 to Vayne Janna wtf.)
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
December 11 2016 20:53 GMT
#58
On December 12 2016 04:40 iCanada wrote:
Sometimes I think Volibear is my favorite champion ever and then the enemy bot lane picks Janna / Vayne.

Fuck me.

(as an aside, also fuck all bot lanes dying 2v2 to Vayne Janna wtf.)

Why do you think vayne/janna is a bad bot lane?
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
December 11 2016 21:33 GMT
#59
I don't think its a bad lane. I just dont think its a lane with overly good kill pressure either, although I could be mistaken I guess. They just don't have a lot of CC or burst damage. Sustained damage and ability to win trades through outplays for sure, but its not like its Blitz-Draven or something where you screwed up once and you bursted.

That and I just hate playing my immobile tank champs against em.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
December 11 2016 21:52 GMT
#60
On December 12 2016 06:33 iCanada wrote:
I don't think its a bad lane. I just dont think its a lane with overly good kill pressure either, although I could be mistaken I guess. They just don't have a lot of CC or burst damage. Sustained damage and ability to win trades through outplays for sure, but its not like its Blitz-Draven or something where you screwed up once and you bursted.

That and I just hate playing my immobile tank champs against em.

Before the tumble revert Vayne Janna was maybe the strongest lane on that patch. in the most disgusting way.

it's less disgusting. but it's still real good. You can avoid dying to it now, but it doesnt result in good times for the team, unless you are cait, or much better than the other player.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 18 19 20 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Summer Champion…
20:00
Not-Summer Champs Group B
GgMaChine vs Zoun
Lambo vs Zoun
IntoTheiNu 843
WardiTV694
TKL 218
Rex139
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 218
Rex 139
Classic 72
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 51231
Rain 2112
FanTaSy 1010
BeSt 666
Rush 458
Soulkey 430
ggaemo 385
Mini 376
Soma 343
Hyuk 268
[ Show more ]
Light 262
firebathero 219
Larva 167
ZerO 138
Snow 134
Hyun 134
Stork 131
EffOrt 128
Zeus 125
Dewaltoss 118
actioN 106
Killer 99
Mind 97
Noble 78
PianO 67
Trap 46
Movie 39
soO 38
Sharp 37
Mong 33
Hm[arnc] 30
Bale 27
sorry 27
Aegong 22
zelot 21
ToSsGirL 19
Sacsri 17
Yoon 13
Terrorterran 10
HiyA 8
Rock 5
Icarus 3
Dota 2
Gorgc12871
qojqva851
syndereN222
XcaliburYe191
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1594
kRYSTAL_273
Other Games
singsing2108
B2W.Neo1084
hiko687
Beastyqt430
Lowko344
KnowMe119
ZerO(Twitch)10
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 8
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 46
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 22
• ChaeLyn 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV418
Upcoming Events
OSC
53m
Big Brain Bouts
2h 53m
FEL
19h 53m
Patches Events
23h 53m
AI Arena Tournament
1d 3h
FEL
1d 20h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 20h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.