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On October 23 2016 10:51 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2016 10:42 iCanada wrote:
Why do PBE accounts start at level 1.
<_<
How am I supposed to test the jungle when I need to level to 10 to get smite.
QQ Because get rekt m8. 1-10 is one of the most important parts of the game. Only makes sense that people should test it.
Just needed to play the beginner stuff then I got 10000 RP and IP, and level 30.
My initial thoughts from 1 game and farming a bunch in customs; XP and gold in the jungle are around the same as before. If you successfully counter jungle or get counter jungled it is a big big deal. I killed the enemy Kindred at Scuttlecrab as Lee Sin, then took his Golems and Wraiths. I went Golems>Red>Wraiths. I assume he went Blue>Wolves>Red or something, met him at the marked Scuttle.
I was level 6 at 4 minutes 30 seconds. He was still level 4 at 7 minutes. Golems worth 2 camps of XP and gold, Wraiths worth 1.5 camps. SO essentially junglers gain all the gold lost back from these two camps. That being said, holy shit if you counter jungle these camps you create huuuge disparities in level and gold between you and the other guy.
Lee Sin I think will be top tier. I quickly tested the clears of a few champs, and Lee's was by far the best.The lifesteal Buff to the machete and the buff camps losing the small guys helps him out a lot. He has the AoE and Single target to quickly kill and clear. He moves up a few tiers in terms of clear ability for sure. Jarvan feels quite good as well, probably has the largest improvement out of all junglers.
Fastest I tried was Shyvana. Some of the old AoE gods that wrecked the jungle have a rough time because they get shit on at Golems and that is the most important camp. Biggest examples are Hecarim, Skarner, and Nocturne. They spend a lot of time and HP at Golems. Is weird, you expect the camp to be an AoE camp, but single target fairs much better there.
Seems like the best junglers right now are the ones with good single target and AoE spells; Shyv, Lee, Elise, Nidalee, Jarvan, honourable mention to Amumu because he rolls over Wraiths. Faster junglers get a full retard amount of time to dick around and make something happen when they finish their clear. Seems like Riot really wants people to gank hard. I don't think hard farming is gone, just they want junglers to gank. You can hit 3 from Golems>Wraiths. Any other start you need 3 camps to hit 3. If you can't start red side of jungle my initial thought is you likely aren't a viable jungler. The jungle is quite trivial if you start blue side, but you are just slower and the other guy gets to come in hot with an XP advantage and contest your more valuable red side camps. If you went Golems>Red>Wraiths you are 20% of a bar from level 4 whereas when you clear blue side you are just level 3 with no bar. I bet Shyvana could clear red side, and contest wraiths and hit 4 from a few small wraiths if the other jungle starts blue side.
Plants are quite un-impactful. They are there I guess. I am happier about them than before. They do start spawning at 2 minutes though, and a lucky explosion plant can speed your clear by 10 seconds. I am less than impressed by that.
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On October 21 2016 20:07 Jek wrote:
I wonder if it breaks Evelynn's passive.
Can confirm, breaks Eve passive.
EDIT: Riot fucked up real bad. Shaco is an absolute fucking monster. LOL.
His Q at level 5 is 4.5 seconds of stealth undetectable with no warning. And Riot added movement speed out of combat to everything he wants. LOL. With Q maxxed, Mobis and a Dirk item Shaco can Rengar lane gank with no warning display every 13 seconds.
He also has near 1 shot potential on anything Squishy; Backstab + Decieve Onhit + greenfathers gift & fresh blood + Tiamat -> TLORDS -> Two-shiv w/ its newexecute. At level 8 that is like 900 damage. Terrifying.
Gets scarier when Shaco gets Shiv and new Drakkthar. Shaco is going to be pick/ban in soloqueue. Hell maybe even in pro play. His early game is less abusive (no more multiple camps at one time) but he farms way better with his new passive.
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Wasn't Deceive something like 3.5 or 4s on live? So for the early game it's much worse since he can't come from far enough to hide the puff of smoke, and once you get mobis and stuff the difference isn't that big?
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His new passive is great since most folks turned around too quick to make the old passive worth it. Honestly if they gave us just that I would have been satisfied.
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On October 23 2016 22:10 Alaric wrote:
Wasn't Deceive something like 3.5 or 4s on live? So for the early game it's much worse since he can't come from far enough to hide the puff of smoke, and once you get mobis and stuff the difference isn't that big?
Live Deceive is 3.25. It is a nerf early game till he gets 4 points in it, in which it is a buff. His mid game gets kind of silly. That being said, i think Shaco has enough options for scary ass pathing as it is that he will likely be fine. His passive is also much nicer for farming the jungle. He isn't like amazing or anything, but he can keep pace.
4.5 seconds is a massive amount of time with Mobi's and some dirk items you can pop it from behind bot tower and walk to where the enemy teams tower is.
You definitely cannot do that on live. Honestly, once Shaco hits level 8 you basically need not ward because he can kill you regardless. Its the difference between being able to pop Q out of range from wherever and getting behind them, and just having it wear out in range. 4.5 seconds is enough to almost always get behind them from out of vision.
I think as a champ he is generally more viable than before. Less reliant on snowball of abusive early games, because you can farm easier with new passive, and your mid game is much stronger than before.
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On October 23 2016 13:08 JazzVortical wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2016 05:06 Sent. wrote:
I have no idea which dragon is the best but triple cloud drake + mobi boots is really fun. Triple ocean buff also feels great when it kicks in after you leave a teamfight with 10% hp. Other two are boring to me altough I havent tried backdooring with 3 mountain drakes yet. All 4 buffs are boring IMO, but I don't know how you could make interesting ones that aren't game breaking in some way.
Yea. It was an experiment just like the old stacking dragon, and in the end its just like the old dragon, with RNG possibly screwing you if you have a certain comp.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On October 23 2016 04:54 Gahlo wrote:This is the beginning and the end of why Infernal is overrated.
This is really interesting and reminds me of how Ketara would always advocate Void Staff before Rabadon's Deathcap on Lux: it amplifies all of your damage, whereas Rabadon's only amplifies your scaling damage and not your base.
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On October 25 2016 01:30 JimmiC wrote:
Which que's are the longest I'm guessing Mid>adc>jungle>top>>>>>>>>>>support but I was wondering if anyone had the numbers or a firm answer. I have no numbers at all, but my feeling says Mid>top>adc>jungle>>>>>>>>>>support, because I normally queue support jungle and always get support, and when i changed it to top jungle, I got more jungle than top on a very small sample size.
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You're definitely right about support but I feel like queue times of other roles depend on elo a lot. Ever since I climbed to plat I get mid much more often than I did at lower levels (I queue as whatever non support/non support I feel like playing given day). I'd rank it Mid=top -> jungle -> adc >>>>>>>> support. I think top regained a lot of popularity since tank tops stopped being so strong.
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On October 25 2016 01:30 JimmiC wrote:
Which que's are the longest I'm guessing Mid>adc>jungle>top>>>>>>>>>>support but I was wondering if anyone had the numbers or a firm answer.
Its:
1. Mid
2&3 Adc, Jungle
4. Top
5. Support
Adc and Jungle are close tight for the 2nd and 3rd, the others are like that
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On October 24 2016 23:31 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2016 04:54 Gahlo wrote:This is the beginning and the end of why Infernal is overrated. This is really interesting and reminds me of how Ketara would always advocate Void Staff before Rabadon's Deathcap on Lux: it amplifies all of your damage, whereas Rabadon's only amplifies your scaling damage and not your base.
Oh incidentally I posted this to Reddit, arguing that only for ADC's is Infernal noticeably better than the other dragons, and that on an AP mid Infernal is approximately the same as all the other dragons. And then LS came in and called me an idiot and got a downvote brigade going on all my posts. Good to know that whatever else may change in this crazy modern world, LS being hilariously wrong is not one of them.
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Could you link the discussion?
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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Oh wow, what a shitstom that was. :'D
You two seem to have a history...
His personal attacks really weren't necessary. But I do see (part of) his point though that the stats you linked to do not tell the entire tale. But I am too bad to know whether those 'hidden features' make enough of a difference for the original point to hold.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I actually don't really know what I've said about LS on Reddit. You'll have to ask him - apparently he knows? Maybe he has a little database of everyone that has ever said something mean to him.
For me, I think that if you really do think Infernal is OP, you should cite to ADC's as an example of it being OP. And if you cite to AP champs, that kind of proves you don't know how Infernal works.
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Infernal is the only drake that gives a direct combat benefit and in that sense it's very strong. There are teamfights where getting the tank down with one or two ADC autos less than normal matters a lot.
All four dragons give map play benefits. All the buffs open up new possible plays, so I think in that sense they're about equal, but inferno has the added benefit of being useful for combat, so it's quite a lot stronger than the rest of them.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I largely agree with the caveat that being in the right place at the right time (Cloud), having more health (Ocean), and taking less damage from Baron/Dragon because you kill them faster (Mountain) is really important for combat too! It seems a bit arbitrary to declare one dragon as having "in-combat stats" and therefore more useful when the others are just as key for picking the right fight, just less noticeable.
EDIT: I mean we just came off of a series that SKT literally won because their Cloud Drakes in game 5 got them to Baron in time. I can't think of a better example of its strength. If you're ahead and take Infernal, you're just slightly more ahead. If you're ahead and take Cloud, you're earning advantages your gold can't buy otherwise.
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Seeing ls get btfo is always fun gj grinq
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EPT
