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On November 20 2015 09:29 Numy wrote:
The difference with Dota is that at the very top end NA players do actually compete against the world. Can't say the same for League though. Just dota has a drastic drop-off after the T1 guys.
Also CSGO guys aren't too bad. Sure not winning majors but TL has been doing decently and C9 had a good run earlier in the year. BR guys stepping it up too which is cool.
DotA is so old and settled in, and is such a weird mix of skills, a great squad can coalesce out of most anywhere. Fear's been on EG for longer than competent competitive LoL has existed. Kind of makes it a novel environment for esports.
LoL is still at a point where you can just out-'do' your opponents, at least below like top-3 in the world. Fnatic ran practically the same strategy through their whole split and went 16-0 with it just because they gathered a bunch of top players and did *more things* than their opponents were. CLG got away with similar.
Maybe eventually NA LoL will mature out of that, and maybe NA/EU orgs will mature too. Until they do, imports are filling big gaps.
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I'm starting to think the real difference is dota doesn't have a near slave - culture region pushing the boundaries of what you can do in the game.
Where 8 hours of practice/scrims with the team a day but no solo q is slacking
Between that and the constant international play it's a lot easier to get good
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 20 2015 09:50 Slusher wrote:
I'm starting to think the real difference is dota doesn't have a near slave - culture region pushing the boundaries of what you can do in the game.
Where 8 hours of practice/scrims with the team a day but no solo q is slacking
Between that and the constant international play it's a lot easier to get good
To be fair, both games are just way too different to honestly compare.
And DotA players practice A LOT. It's just that they scrim less and those are mostly Chinese teams who scrim everyday, because gaming houses.
Plus DotA has that well-established culture, while LoL is still making babysteps.
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I suspect to see HUNI and REIGNOVER in gravity or imortals new lineup.
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I really don't understand the concern over the national makeup of a sports team, whether it's eSport or regular sports. The only time this really matters is in the Olympics and eSports Leagues are LEAGUES not Olympics [although I heard a rumor that KeSpa pushed to have eSports included as 2nd level Olympic sports, so you can all whine about a person's place of origin at that time].
I've never heard a Lakers fan complain about Slavs on their team, or a Kings fan complain about Russians or Ukrainians on their team, or a Dodgers fan complain about a Japanese pitcher, or a Galaxy fan having a British outfielder. The only seriously All-American sport without foreign talent is football. Yes, there are American Football Leagues but I suspect they are as popular in the EU as eSports is, right now, in the USA. Different strokes for different folks. The way a NA player gets on a team is to listen to guys like Spirit complaining about Chinese players not showing up on time, not playing soloQ or trolling, etc. and take that to heart by stopping being whining babies. If NA wants to get better, be better, & be valued over foreigners then they 1st have to have the talent, THEN they have to work their butts off as hard or harder than any Korean player does to keep his spot. Problem with NA players who whine about player contracts, unions, nationality, or forcing owners to keep them on the roster is that they want a lot of something for nothing. The team management paid your food, bed, internet, equipment, transportation, etc. You got paid. Be happy with that... quit complaining and improve yourself, because the whole "nationality" hyperbole is meaningless dribble to keep sub-par players in the scene because "you feel sorry for them". It's a business. Get over it. If the NBA or MLB or NHL want the best in their position on a specific team, they'll pay a foreigner $120million over 3 years, if they have to, to do it, ain't nothing different with the mentality in eSports.
Bottom line for a corporation/investor/owner forking out $ for a team that's gonna make $50K as a team if they win their League or $0 if they place less than fourth is **to win** plus BRANDING. These guys waste their time and money on kids playing video games because a good player, with a good personality, will help brand them and they can make money off Team items and the FREE ADVERTISING it gives them. It's no different than the major sports team who make their money not by winning the World Championship, World Series, etc. but by selling player jerseys, tickets, and refreshments at their venues. No one wants to pay to see a shit team. No one wants to buy a jersey for a sub-par player whose not gonna be around next split. They want staying power.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
I just want to remind that this is not DotA related thread and subforum, stick to the rumors discussion.
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On November 20 2015 12:22 Coldbolt wrote:
I suspect to see HUNI and REIGNOVER in gravity or imortals new lineup.
I really can't believe that Fnatic was torn up so easily. If Fnatic gets anything less than second place this first split I'm going to be mad.
NA better show up at Worlds too, now that they have a ton of stacked rosters the 'competitiveness' should go up.
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On November 20 2015 19:57 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 12:22 Coldbolt wrote:
I suspect to see HUNI and REIGNOVER in gravity or imortals new lineup. I really can't believe that Fnatic was torn up so easily. If Fnatic gets anything less than second place this first split I'm going to be mad. NA better show up at Worlds too, now that they have a ton of stacked rosters the 'competitiveness' should go up.
Considering the amount of money that came into the NALCS this season I am not surprised at all.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
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On November 20 2015 12:53 Dratwka wrote:
I've never heard a Lakers fan complain about Slavs on their team, or a Kings fan complain about Russians or Ukrainians on their team, or a Dodgers fan complain about a Japanese pitcher, or a Galaxy fan having a British outfielder. The only seriously All-American sport without foreign talent is football. Yes, there are American Football Leagues but I suspect they are as popular in the EU as eSports is, right now, in the USA. Different strokes for different folks. The way a NA player gets on a team is to listen to guys like Spirit complaining about Chinese players not showing up on time, not playing soloQ or trolling, etc. and take that to heart by stopping being whining babies. If NA wants to get better, be better, & be valued over foreigners then they 1st have to have the talent, THEN they have to work their butts off as hard or harder than any Korean player does to keep his spot. Problem with NA players who whine about player contracts, unions, nationality, or forcing owners to keep them on the roster is that they want a lot of something for nothing. The team management paid your food, bed, internet, equipment, transportation, etc. You got paid. Be happy with that... quit complaining and improve yourself, because the whole "nationality" hyperbole is meaningless dribble to keep sub-par players in the scene because "you feel sorry for them". It's a business. Get over it. If the NBA or MLB or NHL want the best in their position on a specific team, they'll pay a foreigner $120million over 3 years, if they have to, to do it, ain't nothing different with the mentality in eSports.
All your examples are very biased, you use sports played by very few countries and primary just Americans. Take football which has a strongly supported league in basically every European country, and many players from south america and africa. Here people do complain about huge influx of foreign players. Yes they do still scout the globe for players and try to make the best teams. But there is a huge loss of identity if Arsenal field a whole team of foreign players (this happened about 10 years ago). It takes away the identity of the club being an English one. Also there should be a focus of developing your own home grown talent. In every sport and most Olympics events its more a result of developing your nations talent. Yes from a student perspective you do need to work had to make the grades but when we talk from a team perspective we are the teacher. If the whole class fails or is doing bad then maybe the teacher/education system is not so good.
tl:dr : Using the NBA or MLB are horrid examples.
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Russian Federation11 Posts
Gambit's manager is now a free agent:
Says FORG1VEN and Cabochard are likely to end up on different teams:
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I don't think Gambit has an especially high chance of surviving this season, unless they manage to come out ahead against G2, Giants and UOL
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On November 20 2015 21:56 MuddyJam wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 12:53 Dratwka wrote:
I've never heard a Lakers fan complain about Slavs on their team, or a Kings fan complain about Russians or Ukrainians on their team, or a Dodgers fan complain about a Japanese pitcher, or a Galaxy fan having a British outfielder. The only seriously All-American sport without foreign talent is football. Yes, there are American Football Leagues but I suspect they are as popular in the EU as eSports is, right now, in the USA. Different strokes for different folks. The way a NA player gets on a team is to listen to guys like Spirit complaining about Chinese players not showing up on time, not playing soloQ or trolling, etc. and take that to heart by stopping being whining babies. If NA wants to get better, be better, & be valued over foreigners then they 1st have to have the talent, THEN they have to work their butts off as hard or harder than any Korean player does to keep his spot. Problem with NA players who whine about player contracts, unions, nationality, or forcing owners to keep them on the roster is that they want a lot of something for nothing. The team management paid your food, bed, internet, equipment, transportation, etc. You got paid. Be happy with that... quit complaining and improve yourself, because the whole "nationality" hyperbole is meaningless dribble to keep sub-par players in the scene because "you feel sorry for them". It's a business. Get over it. If the NBA or MLB or NHL want the best in their position on a specific team, they'll pay a foreigner $120million over 3 years, if they have to, to do it, ain't nothing different with the mentality in eSports.
All your examples are very biased, you use sports played by very few countries and primary just Americans. Take football which has a strongly supported league in basically every European country, and many players from south america and africa. Here people do complain about huge influx of foreign players. Yes they do still scout the globe for players and try to make the best teams. But there is a huge loss of identity if Arsenal field a whole team of foreign players (this happened about 10 years ago). It takes away the identity of the club being an English one. Also there should be a focus of developing your own home grown talent. In every sport and most Olympics events its more a result of developing your nations talent. Yes from a student perspective you do need to work had to make the grades but when we talk from a team perspective we are the teacher. If the whole class fails or is doing bad then maybe the teacher/education system is not so good. tl:dr : Using the NBA or MLB are horrid examples.
The National Basketball Association (NBA) today announced that a record 101 international players from 37 countries and territories are on opening night rosters for the 2014-15 season, up from last year's record of 92 international players. This marks the first time the NBA has more than 100 international players.Oct 29, 2014
http://www.nba.com/2014/news/10/28/international-players-on-opening-day-rosters-2014-15/
MLB has players from 20 different countries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_Major_League_Baseball_players_by_nationality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer#Player_acquisition_and_salaries
In 2015 48.97% of MLS players were born outside of the U.S. and Canada, with players from 58 countries represented.
NFL also has plenty of Oceania born kickers and just had a former HoF rugby player try to make it there (though he was just cut a few weeks ago midway through the season he's still on the practice squad)
They've also had PLENTY of players from different countries though it's not close to the percent of the other sports
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/friv/birthplaces.htm
Your post is so fucking hilariously XD it's amazing. MLB/MLS prolly have more players than not that are internationally born, and higher ratios of internationally born players than the NA LCS. The only people who care about NA importing players are Europeans.
Tl;dr don't talk out of your butt
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
Please create a separate thread for the discussion about Nationality in sports / esports teams. It doesn't really fit into the rumor mill thread.
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I act as a player agent to help some LCS friends and I say this now. There is currently a team giving out unrepresented amount of money to players in their contracts which has never been seen in the western LCS scene. I was not told the team however I have reason to believe it's possibly immortals but more likely the new owners for either TIP or Gravity. I know because the player was meant to be in the lineup but was changed.
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On November 21 2015 03:19 Coldbolt wrote:
I act as a player agent to help some LCS friends and I say this now. There is currently a team giving out unrepresented amount of money to players in their contracts which has never been seen in the western LCS scene. I was not told the team however I have reason to believe it's possibly immortals but more likely the new owners for either TIP or Gravity. I know because the player was meant to be in the lineup but was changed.
cat's been out of the bag on this for a while now
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Was there any reason as to why fnatic's roster is getting torn to pieces despite their insane EULCS run?
Is it just them fat stacks of cash in NA?
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On November 21 2015 04:53 wei2coolman wrote:
Was there any reason as to why fnatic's roster is getting torn to pieces despite their insane EULCS run?
Is it just them fat stacks of cash in NA?
Money talks and Delior, who the community loves slobbering, ran the team stricter than the Koreans liked.
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On November 21 2015 04:53 wei2coolman wrote:
Was there any reason as to why fnatic's roster is getting torn to pieces despite their insane EULCS run?
Is it just them fat stacks of cash in NA?
They are worth the most money right now. Makes sense to cash in and go with another team from a business standpoint.
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On November 21 2015 05:00 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 04:53 wei2coolman wrote:
Was there any reason as to why fnatic's roster is getting torn to pieces despite their insane EULCS run?
Is it just them fat stacks of cash in NA? They are worth the most money right now. Makes sense to cash in and go with another team from a business standpoint.
Indeed. It is not despite but because of the insane run that it makes sense to go to a high-paying team.
And of course that insane run was bought with insane effort. Something you might not want to repeat next season, especially when you fell short in the end anyway.
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EPT
